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EVO camera blind test

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by reemas, Jun 21, 2010.

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Which video was better?

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  2. Right

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  1. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Android Expert
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    The H.264 is a vendor specific implementation. Galaxy S will have it.

    Google is not just going to give it away for free. It cost money and Apple has the economy of scale to cross-license.
    They have it in all their products from OS to high-end editing apps. They also have Pro apps division (Motion/FCP) so they have the talent/man power to implement a superior software solution for the recording.

    So they, definitely have the upper hand and a cost advantage of $10-15 per unit over HTC (codec licenses/man power/talent for camera software, etc).
    This is just one area where it is hard for others to compete.
     

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  2. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Ja wohl, agree completely.

    The forum I'd referenced above has some speculation about the cost for this sort of thing. One guy tossed out something like $40, while the moderator/employee came back and said that about $20 would pretty much do it for this type of market - near as I could tell reading quickly, that would be an end-user price.

    For an encoder and a multi-codec player as an add-on for the Evo - I'd pay it.
     
  3. bjones521

    bjones521 Newbie
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    Woww....its really sad how bad the evo's camera is.
     
  4. Aridon

    Aridon Well-Known Member
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    its a great test and shows that what the iphone does, it does well. Something google, htc and motorola need to take note. sure android is a great is but in reality root is required and a lot of bloat needs to be removed for these devices to be competitive in many aspects. Something that isn't necessary on the iphone. This will be androids biggest problem going forward.
     
  5. reemas

    reemas Well-Known Member
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    i prefer my EVO over my iPhone, but most of that is due to the AT&T network. one day, people will realize quality > quantity...

    i hope google, htc and all these other guys, hit the brakes and exercise some control. what good is a new feature if it seems kinda half assed. i know that a lot of people hear 720p and think the EVO has a great camera. i think one of the points of this thread is that there is a lot of marketing and string pulling involved in getting sales out.

    obviously the android phone does many things much better than the iPhone, but the camera, multimedia, and several areas are so far behind.

    i'll say it again, the June 2010 HTC phone has an inferior camera to it's direct competition (Apple's 2009 iPhone - don't even compare it to the iPhone 4). Being that HTC had a year to catch up, it's sad that the quality isn't even as good in most situations.
     
  6. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    I got a different read on that after reading the entire year+ forum over at CoreCodec.

    1. There's a right way and a wrong way to embed support for the newer codec.

    2. They insist on having full SDK (software development kit) and NDK (native development kit) integration and support - not just a partial implementation.

    3. To do otherwise, according to CoreCodec, is kinda half-baked and creates a dead-end of support problems.

    4. Every time they thought they were on to getting there for both SDK+NDK, they found some issues they couldn't get past and started working the next Android rev.

    5. They think they're getting it right - and because it's all backdoor info, if I read it right (not 100% sure) - it's looking like it needs to go into Froyo (architecture changes allow for this).

    So, overall for the Android community, I think it sounds like CoreCodec / Android dev are marching down the right path.

    (conference room meeting)

    "Hi, Mr. Head of EVO Dev. We're here to discuss options on our upcoming EVO with the exciting new zigapixel cameras."

    "Uh huh. And how do you propose we support those?"

    "Well, we take stock Android, see, well not stock, the 2.1 that's going be out by our release date - of course, just guess on that rev number - but anyway, we take stock Android, and kinda shoehorn in some additional codec support and some very non-standard apps made in a rather curious way."

    "Uh huh. And how long to do that?"

    "Oh, well, we tried figuring that out but Android started changing again. But it's a great idea, so let's do it!"

    "Uh huh. And who else is doing that?"

    "Well, rumor is some of our competitors are spending that money themselves."

    "Uh huh. And who else?"

    "Oh, well there's this company called CoreCodecs that specializes in these advanced codecs and they're already deployed for Win, Palm and Symbian and they're being used by Samsung, Toshiba, LG, Panasonic, Motorola, Seagate, ASUS and a few others."

    "Uh huh. And what are their plans?"

    "They plan to replace the stock PacketVideo core in Android in one of the upcoming Android releases and then just charge a straight licensing fee."

    "And if we just put out what Android already has and wait for them, we'll get this new stuff at lowest risk and lowest cost - right?"

    "Well, yes, but think how important having this new feature put in will really enhance our image, make customers even happier, and.... sir? Sir?"

    (crickets chirping)
     
  7. Brian360

    Brian360 Android Enthusiast
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    Good tech in here. Thanks guys.
     
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  8. bjones521

    bjones521 Newbie
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    Earlymon....what camera settings do you use on your evo?
     
  9. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Photo:

    Brightness at 0 or -1 depending on condition
    Contrast at 0 +/- 1 depending on condition
    Saturation at +1, even +2 for some effects
    Sharpness at usually -1 or -2
    White Balance - Auto, but always check/adjust if time permits
    ISO - usually at 200, never auto
    Resolution 8M
    Widescreen 5:3
    Quality High
    Self Timer - Off
    Geo Tagging - Off
    Review Duration - No Limit
    Flicker Adjustment - 60 Hz
    Metering Mode - Spot
    Auto Focus Off
    Face Detection Off
    Shutter Sound On
    Time Stamp Off
    Grid Off

    Post-process from there.

    Video - pretty much the same, except
    Resolution strictly at VGA for now
    MPEG-4
    Sharpness at -2
    Metering - Average
    Focus - usually at Auto

    (still playing around with video)

    PS - Your mileage may vary, I don't claim to be completely expert with this camera yet.
     
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  10. bjones521

    bjones521 Newbie
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    Thanks a lot earlymon. What does the metering mode do?
     
  11. bjones521

    bjones521 Newbie
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  12. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Use that hand-in-glove with the focusing mode. As I use manual focus, naturally, I want light metered at that spot (*usually true* - no absolutes in photography).

    The way that works is that you get the camera and scene ready, and tap the screen at the point of interest. A little wire frame lights up at that point - that's the focus and meter point with my settings.

    From page 80 of the manual (and not saying to RTFM, just hoping it explains it better):

    PS - OK, neverminding! :D

    By the way - my user guide is still in the wrapper - I use this pdf:

    http://support.sprint.com/global/pdf/user_guides/htc/evo/htc_evo_ug.pdf
     
  13. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    OK, here's an advantage of my method with the EVO that goes beyond that YouTube (even though it was very good).

    I tend to really exploit widescreen format wherever possible.

    Note my subject on the left, but the sun - the object - is on the right.

    Note also that these have had zero post-processing done to them (other than to scale it down to the file size allowed by my forum membership status) - just using my settings, saturation all the way up on the first, at +1 on the second, but brightness and contrast adjusted for the situation at hand.

    Believe it or not, this was at sunset with the sky growing on the dusky side.

    Aaron-Didgeridoo.jpg

    Sunset-3-Sided-Whole.jpg

    They may look odd to some, but they had what I was going after. Shots were taken about 5 minutes apart.

    And the point - always have a camera you can trust because you never know.

    I had zero plans of taking pictures the other night, these just kinda happened without planning or staging of any kind, all on their own. Just an evening stroll in the beautiful New Mexico desert.

    Made friends with the nice young guy with didgeridoo, and actually used the photo to introduce him to a nice young gal we know while sharing a glass of wine.

    The web has nothing on social networking, in my opinion. ;)
     
  14. bjones521

    bjones521 Newbie
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    Thanx alot early. You da Man! You have vastly helped improve my evos camera quality.

    I use
    brightness 0
    contrast 0
    saturation +1
    sharpness -2
    iso 200
    metering mode spot.

    Everything else default.
     
  15. mistax

    mistax Member
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    pretty sure evo on the left since it seems to have frame issue with lightning.
     
  16. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Always glad to help - we're all in this together and I'm pulling for you! (yeah - Red Green fan here)

    Just remember, there are no sacred settings on your camera, always feel free to experiment.

    Especially with White Balance.

    You'll find you can get some pretty sophisticated results for a pocket point and shooter on a phone, just by playing around a little.

    Don't know if I'll ever bother with this, but here's a free app anyone into pix should check out:

    Photoshop.com Mobile - Android app on AppBrain
     
  17. CPR

    CPR Well-Known Member
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    OK, let's dial the nerd talk down a notch for us old fogies. Bottom line, will either the Evo or the iPhone 4 replace a real camera/videocam for special events/vacations? It's obvious the Evo won't as-is (for video), but I'm also not convinced the iPhone will make the cut. Both use digital zoom, correct? I'll still be lugging along another device for pictures and/or video, and while the Evo obviously needs work, I'm going to keep things in perspective.

    I find it ironic that I can't view half of these video tests on my iPad.
     
  18. reemas

    reemas Well-Known Member
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    good info earlymon. but notice that your sunset has some gross banding issues. this is definitely correlated to the sensor's lack of sensitivity. both your sunsets look like they were made of 3-4 colors only, instead of a smooth transition.

    and cpr, you're right it won't replace a real camera, but it sure sucks to have a very lousy substitute. and truthfully, any new cell phone camera won't be worse than the EVOs, in terms of quality.
     
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  19. bjones521

    bjones521 Newbie
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    I think the evo can replace a point and shoot with the correct settings. With video....the only hope we have is froyo. Hopefully froyo can give the evo a steady 30fps regardless of situation.
     
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  20. reemas

    reemas Well-Known Member
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    to add to what i was saying, it's really the video that is gross. the pictures, are mediocre, and in good lighting they can be decent. that's not saying alot....

    almost like saying, enjoy this new airplane. but it only flies when there is no wind.
     
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  21. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Oh, to beat the band, reemas.

    Ja wohl.

    Yeah - here's another in the series, sized to fit here, and then a piece pulled out without resizing.

    sunset-2.jpg

    sunset-crop.jpg

    If I did that right, you can see the actual guilt of my method.

    That said - these snaps were to show how one could exploit the tool at hand for some artful effects. They turned out exactly as I'd intended.

    Remember - not all people know this - but with decent desktop software, you can start with a picture that does not overdo things as I did, and post-process it to get better color.

    And my other point is - the worst camera is the one you don't have when you need it.

    And not to defend the Evo camera, just a statement of fact - this was in very low-light and I think it did well.

    PS - That said, I'm so far finding the Evo still camera quite serviceable - the video camera - uh, not so much.

    Sheesh. Everybody's an art critic. You know, some pictures are made to inspire emotion.

    :D :D :D

    There was a whole video-making cult built up over the Fisher-Price kiddie b/w videocam. I'll have to look up some of their stuff - that'll learn ya!
     
  22. reemas

    reemas Well-Known Member
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    ha ha, definitely true. i'll take it.
     
  23. Jordus

    Jordus Android Enthusiast
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    The fact that you use OSX told me everything i need to know.
     
  24. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    You mean, like - it's the number one choice of video editing professionals, used probably by most if not all of your local network affiliates to rapidly prepare video for late-breaking news, and used extensively throughout Hollywood-land?

    And that aside from things like the large, dedicated processors for that industry, they're legendary for their codec support and getting things right, especially with non-linear editing?

    Yeah - the fact that he used OS X told me everything I needed to know, too.

    ;)
     
  25. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    True story:

    WifelyMon: "And you're taking your phone out where there's no signal because...?"

    EarlyMon: "Cuz I wanna play with GPS if I get bored - it's really important."

    WifelyMon: "Mmmk, baby - take your toy."

    (later)

    WifelyMon: "Whoa - look at that sunset from this ridge! HEY! What's that sound?!?!"

    EarlyMon: <snap> <snap> <snap> <snap>...

    ;) :) - True words.
     
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