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free health care

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by sntaylor, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert
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    I disagree, a company should have to contribute a percentage of healthcare costs at most, and certainly not the premiums that exist in the US.

    It is a bit like wanting every employee to get a company car.

    That said, I understand the rationale, but a non-employer based system would be preferable.
     

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  2. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    So .. who is supposed to pay for it?

    The options are:

    It's a benefit - paid for by the employer

    The workers are paid enough so they can afford to pay for it themselves - again, paid for by the employer.

    It's paid for from taxes - again, paid for by the employer.

    There's no way around it: the employer has to pay. There is no-one else.

    Yeah, we've covered this: the main reason premiums are so high is because not everyone pays their share. To reduce premiums you have to make everyone pay.

    That's why the GOP policy of Obamacare / Romneycare makes everyone pay. Again: no other alternative.

    It's nothing like that. Very few people need a company car. Everyone needs health care.

    See above: one way or another, the employer pays. There is no other source of income.
     
  3. ItnStln511

    ItnStln511 Android Enthusiast
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    Actually that would be the democrats. All they want to do is tax and spend, and offer nothing in return.

    But no one will blame the democrats, they can do no wrong.
     
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  4. ItnStln511

    ItnStln511 Android Enthusiast
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    No one wants to claim responsibility.




    Not really...they'll continue to blame the Republicans, because that's what obama is telling them to do.
     
  5. ItnStln511

    ItnStln511 Android Enthusiast
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    But that's not what he's telling people. I agree with you, but as long as he's telling people that it's better for them, no one will believe otherwise.





    It tells me that they're smarter than I originally thought!





    Don't even get me started on the whole Veterans issue. I personally think that the VA needs to be completely overhauled from top to bottom. And ILLEGAL aliens...does anyone not know what ILLEGAL means?
     
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  6. Gmash

    Gmash Extreme Android User
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    Actually, there is no public option, therefore nothing to opt out of, really. If you already have insurance, you keep it. If you don't, this helps you get it. Not that complicated. Unless you're suggesting Congress should go on Medicaid.:rolleyes:
     
  7. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
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    Employers are never going to pay though. Ever. Why? Because at the end of the day they have a responsibility to their employees and their stockholders to make money and stay in business. A business that makes no money is soon closed.

    At the beginning of the year certain tax cuts expired. The payroll tax went up ~2%. Employers across the board took the 2% hike in payroll costs and went on their way. No. That didn't happen. Instead everybody in America got a 2% pay cut. Why? Because those businesses are responsible to their stock holders at the end of the day and they will ALWAYS pass increased costs along to either their employees or their customers. Businesses that eat these costs out of their bottom line lose their ability to compete in the market place and are soon shuttered.
     
  8. SiempreTuna

    SiempreTuna Android Expert
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    Err .. most already do. It's just a few greedy, whiney SOBs that don't.

    They also have a responsibility to pay their way and part of that, in the US, is providing health care for their employees. If they don't pay their way, they should go bust - the rest of society shouldn't have to pick up the tab.

    Really? Don't remember reading about that. At all. Anywhere. Maybe coz it never happened ..?
     
  9. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
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    They don't. They pass the cost along to their customer/employees. If Congress really, really, really wanted to fix this all they'd have to do is give employers a tax break for paying for healthcare for their employees. They do this already for retirement plans. Employers match employee funds because they get a tax break for doing so.

    They have no such responsibility. They have a responsibility to make money for their shareholders. That is it. Everything else spawns off of that. Why do corporations (in general) try to provide the best customer service? It makes money for their shareholders. Why do they do their best to retain the best and brightest employees? It makes money for their shareholders.

    I'm a bit surprised you haven't noticed this. Go check your pay stuff from mid December and go check your most recent one. It's gone down. Not by much, but it's gone down.
     
  10. JimmyRayBob

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  11. JimmyRayBob

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    I own a small business ... if Uncle Sam mandates that I have to pay for health insurance for everyone, I go bankrupt. Plain and simple. Then they don't get pay checks or insurance.

    And then the "rest of society" as you put it ... has to pick up the tab.
     
  12. lightsleeper23

    lightsleeper23 Android Enthusiast
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    I hope they do raise the minimum wage. At least then people who's greedy employers aren't giving them healthcare might able to get some.

    If you have less than 50 employees, then you don't fall under the mandate. If you have more, then you're not really that small of a business are you? Yeah, it might hurt the bottom line of SOME businesses that are already scraping by, but most are making record profits and I don't feel one bit bad for them or their shareholders.
     
  13. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert
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    If it is paid by taxes then small employers will not have such a heavy burden however. Companies feeling the need to provide healthcare is an unfortunate weight imo. Healthcare should be the states responsibility, not employers. I mean before, employers used to educate workers kids, but its inefficient and cause a problem when there is no employer.
     
  14. chrlswltrs

    chrlswltrs Extreme Android User
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    Why should employers have to pay people more that have minimum education, minimum skills, minimum work ethic, and minimum usefulness?

    If employers have to pay more, they have to raise prices, so everything will cost us more. If people want more money they are responsible for doing more that the minimum. It isn't a business owner's responsibility to pay more for people that don't want to work harder to earn more.
     
  15. lightsleeper23

    lightsleeper23 Android Enthusiast
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    Well you're automatically degrading the entire workforce of the U.S. Not everyone that has a minimum wage job has minimum work ethic. And I'd certainly contest your minimum usefulness claim. You flat out wouldn't be able to run your business without those workers, so in that aspect alone I'd say they're pretty useful.

    But what it comes down to is, anyone who is working a full time job, even the least useful ones (which are still pretty useful to the employer who wants to operate a business), deserve a wage they can actually live on. As long as they're living within their means, nobody working full time should have to decide between paying their light bill, or eating for the last week of the month. They shouldn't have to go to the food bank just to get by.
     
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  16. copestag

    copestag Android Expert
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    this is where youre confused...... they dont "deserve" anything other than what they earn..... nobody is forced to spend their entire life at the bottom..... they choose to do so

    as far as decisions to pay or eat...... if they have to make those decisions.... even on minimum wage.... they are probably living beyond their means

    sometimes dinner is more important than a big screen or a new Iphone
     
  17. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
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    The minimum work ethic and minimum usefulness are probably going too far, but in general the minimal skills and minimal education do apply. Let's be honest, you've got 2.2% of hourly employees who make minimum wage (and I've been one of them before), but half of them are 16-24 (kids/college students) and nearly 60% of them have no higher education. So the skills and education critiques would seem to apply. Just 1.2% of college grads actually make minimum wage. Statistically (and anecdotally as well if it means anything) most minimum wage workers are younger workers and/or those who have no education/skills/training.

    There aren't a whole lot of people who are actually living on minimum wage and, it can be argued, the wage should reflect their skills and education. A worker with few or no skills and no education is not as valuable in the workplace.
     
  18. lightsleeper23

    lightsleeper23 Android Enthusiast
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    You're assuming people are spending their entire life earning minimum wage. Most people move up eventually. While they are earning minimum wage, however long that is, they deserve a minimum wage that they can live on. No, a person making minimum wage shouldn't be buying a huge flat screen and an iPhone. But surely they should be able to have SOME TV and mobile phone...it is 2013 in America after all. Maybe a more modest sized standard definition TV, and a low end android? Besides those aren't the best excuses either way, because those are one time expenses, food and bills are monthly. If someone has trouble paying their bills in any given month, you cant always assume their TV or mobile phone is to blame.
     
  19. ItnStln511

    ItnStln511 Android Enthusiast
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    Don't all religions do that to some degree?
     
  20. lightsleeper23

    lightsleeper23 Android Enthusiast
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    True, it may be a small number of people living on minimum wage, statistically, but its still a lot. But at any rate, a boost in minimum wage would mean a boost for all lower wage jobs, which is needed in my opinion. Cost of living is skyrocketing, rents are getting crazy, and wages are stagnant. Its getting really hard out their, even if you can find a job in this economy.
     
  21. lightsleeper23

    lightsleeper23 Android Enthusiast
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    Yes. The number one goal of all religions is to grow that religion. But some are more pushy about it. Mormons are one of the worst.
     
  22. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User
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    It's not a lot though, by your own admission it's not a lot. You're fixing a problem that's not really there by creating several others.
     
  23. lightsleeper23

    lightsleeper23 Android Enthusiast
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    I disagree completely that its a problem that's not really there. I said the number of minimum wage workers might not be a lot STATISTICALLY, as in compared to the whole population. But it's still a huge number of people. But these are only the people right at minimum wage. I think raising that would also force a boost to all lower wage jobs, which is a much much bigger number. People working full time jobs and still struggling to get through the month is not a problem that isn't really there, its a huge problem. One that NEEDS to be addressed.
     
  24. Gmash

    Gmash Extreme Android User
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    It's not just people making right at minimum wage, but those making a little above. We're not talking about people never getting a raise ever. It also depends a lot on what part of the country you live in. Some places you might be able to squeak by on minimum wage, but in others you would struggle at double the minimum.
    Anyway, the republicans always cry that the sky is falling whenever somebody mentions raising the minimum wage, just like they do when somebody mentions raising the gas mileage standards. The horror stories never happen, but they still get trotted out every single time.
     
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  25. copestag

    copestag Android Expert
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    much like the roads and bridges and jobs for teachers/firemen/police get trotted out everytime you want to raise taxes or prevent spending/giveaway cuts

    wait thats all weve heard for the last 2 weeks........ the sky is falling

    funny..... it was very sunny outside today
     

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