Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by may2700, Mar 17, 2012.
the speed is SHARED, same as with your home router.
i agree. verizon is just doing what corporations do--they use their greed to lighten our wallets.
That is up to you and Verizon to agree-on ... and not me.
That's what i thought, so if my speed is shared then it doesn't really matter how many devices I have connected it's the same bandwidth regardless.
Honestly, this whole thing about charging extra for you to use the full capabilities of what your phone, something we already paid for, and the data package, something we also already pay for, can do, is essentially these cell companies running a scam because they are out no extra resources.
It's rather funny, when I was buying my Bionic, they kept touting the mobile hotspot feature, but never once said a word about an extra charge for me touching a button on the screen to turn it on.
It seems almost as controversial as an abortion but this app is working great for me!
I didn't think that threads like this were allowed in this forum???
Whether or not you agree if you use the hot spot on your phone and you don't pay for hotspot you ARE stealing from VZW. I'm not going yo argue with anyone nor am I going to explain why, just know that you use this app at your own risk. And VZW has ways of telling if you're hotspotting or not.
oh, puhLEAZE! What a sanctimonious load of crap!
I could say Verizon has been "stealing" from it's customers, for years. Charging for SMS. Charging for tethering. It's all about greed, rather than necessity.
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, however we all agreed to Verizon terms and conditions whether we like them or not... (doesn't stop me from hotspotting when I need to though )
I signed because I HAVE to--not because I agree with every last detail. Having a cell phone is something I've got to have. It's not like I can waltz into a verizon store with my lawyer and have them modify the agreement to my liking, as I did when I dealt with a business-property landlord. Boilerplate terms and conditions are always written to maximize the rights of the entity that had them drawn up by high-priced attorneys.
So you and I are in agreement...
I would actually like for you to explain why it's stealing from Verizon. I am not trying to argue, I am merely asking for opinions and clarification because honestly, this is one of the issues that may very well make me leave Verizon after several years with them.
To me, I went in to buy a phone. I wanted a 4G phone because 3G service had already started to decline in my area. They pushed me toward two phones, the Bionic and the Razr, and I chose the Bionic due to the ability to be able to swap out batteries myself.
Now while I was looking at phones, the salesperson constantly kept talking about how the phone could be used as a hotspot which was attractive because it meant I didn't have to be tied to a hotspot to do some of my schoolwork. At no time did she mention that it would be an extra charge.
So, if I bought a phone that was capable of being a hotspot, and I am paying for a data plan, and if I use the phone as a hotspot and am not using any extra data or bandwidth for it being a hotspot, in what way am I stealing from Verizon? I'm sorry, but to me, Verizon wanting to charge me for what MY phone that I paid for can do and using the exact same data that I am already paying for, to me that is the theft since they are doing nothing extra on their part nor is any extra resources being used.
EDIT: And wasn't rooting and jailbreaking considered illegal not that long ago?
From what I have heard Verizon is not enforcing the root-ing clause. They could if they chose to do so.
The salesperson was telling you the truth. The Bionic has the capability Verizon makes that capability available at an additional monthly charge.
Rooting was listed as an accepted fair use exception to the DMCA two years ago, when the EFF successfully appealed to the Library of Congress to add rooting/jailbreaking as an accepted practice for personal use, so long as you do not do something illegal with the handset after rooting (such as fraudulently change the radio so your phone appears to be another number or something.) Anyway, Verizon and Motorola are not required to provide warranty services if you root the phone, but you can use claim fair use as a defense if one of them sues you for a DMCA copyright violation.
Nobody has made any sort of similar determination that wireless (or wired) tethering is considered an acceptable exception to the current data contract terms, which allow the phone handset only to access data from web sources and to send and receive email.
Thank you for the further clarification.
Yes ... if you are root-ed and your Bionic is fried Verizon could refuse to repair it. It is my understanding that they are currently not enforcing this option and that they could start enforcing it any time they please.
There were reports in other forums that Verizon was recognizing abnormally high data transfers from third-party tethering and throttled back the data rates to .5Mbps. There doesn't seem to be a policy on this. I do not know what data plan these people were paying for.
And the monthly charge was conviently left out of the sales pitch is my point. I think intentionally so because if they said they were charging you extra for providing no additional service too many customers would walk out the door.
I guess to me this isn't really any different than rooting/jailbreaking. People fought that because it was equipment they paid for. Since this is something we pay for with our data plans and the hardware built into the phones we paid for, than what is this extra charge for as long as we are in our data plans? I really am not understanding. The more I hear about it, the more Verizon sounds like crooks.
I pay thirty a month for unlimited mobile hotspot. I don't have to worry about being throttled.
I'll see your $30 and raise you $30; I used to pay $60/month for 5GB for a MiFi. I ended up doing an ETF half way through the two years because it was an insane amount to pay for the limited use I made of the MiFi. I only got it because I didn't own a smartphone at the time. Once I got a smartphone, it seemed stupid to continue to pay for MiFi.
Maybe I am working off of old information, BUT it is a violation of the terms and conditions of the contract we ALL signed at VZW. And don't tell me that you had to. That is a load of BS. True if you didn't sign it you would have service but that is still YOUR CHOICE! When was the last time you read the terms and conditions on anything you use? The EULA that we all scroll to the bottom on and agree to, chances are that 50% of us (or more) are in some violation of that agreement. In addition to this, I'm not saying your wrong or in trouble. Lets be honest, if it's free or a way to make it free we are going to use it. I use hot spotting and I know that I am stealing from them. However i agree with most of you that I am paying for unlimited data, so in my mind that shouldn't "limit" me to one device. So call me a hypocrite or what ever else you want.
Rooting/Jailbreaking has never been illegal. Steve Jobs (RIP) was trying to make it illegal but never succeeded. They did try to scare us by saying it would void the warranty, but those of us that did root could un-root and they would never know.
I am sticking by my guns. I am not arguing with anyone, telling anyone they are wrong, or explaining why this is stealing. Verizon may have changed this policy because so many of us use it with out paying for it, this is why I think it may be old information.
For those of you that don't agree with me, I'll ask this question; Why would VZW charge me $100 more for the laptop dock if I don't pay for hot spotting?
That's in the data contract terms as well.
Notice the part that I bolded. Specifically (and, unlike what AT&T has been doing), Verizon will throttle the top 5% of data users when they are connected to towers that have high data usage. If the towers are not busy, there is no throttling. AT&T has been throttling all grandfathered unlimited data users when they reach 3 GB of data in a month at all times (it was 2 GB until recently) and I think that they were throttled to near dial-up modem speeds.
Which brings up an interesting point: in reading the data contract terms, I don't see where it says that you cannot use your data plan for more than just your device. (I am sure that it did at one time.)
Here is the customer agreement: Legal Customer Agreement - Your Guide by Verizon Wireless
Notice what it says, though, under Data Services:
Ok, I'll admit that MAYBE stealing was a harsh term, but it is still a violation of the contract that we signed.
Thank you for the info doogald.
Doogald, do you know of a carrier that does allow people to use the phones and data plans they purchase fully, without paying extra for the carrier doing nothing? At this point I am seriously considering leaving Verizon, this is just one issue that is leading me to it.
And can the Bionic be used on another carrier's service that utilizes 4G LTE?
I have never used them and they are new, but ting.com looks really, really interesting. The phones are either relatively crappy or priced high - they appear not to be subsidized, though that means that you have lower monthly charges - but they allow you to choose the number of minutes, texts and data, charge you low prices for them, and if you do not use the minutes you paid for - you get a credit on your bill for the next month, rather than a rollover.
Tethering/hotspot is no extra charge - you use your data pool.
They are run by the same people who run the domain registrar hover.com and tucows.com, so they've been around running those services for a while.
One other thing - they use Sprint's network, and their 4G is WiMax, not LTE. That may not be as wide-spread as Verizon's LTE. Check the coverage map as well.
I'm not sure about anybody else. I think that all of the majors charge extra for hotspot. (Honestly, it's not something that I do, so I don't pay much attention to it, and I'm fairly committed to Verizon for the next 4 years or so. Maybe somebody else knows though.)
I doubt it. I think that AT&T uses a different LTE frequency and isn't CDMA as a fallback (and AT&T, like VZW, does not yet use LTE for voice), and I don't know what Sprint's ultimate LTE details are, but they do not allow phones that were not purchased from Sprint on their plans.
Definitely not with ting.com, though - you have to buy one of their phones. They have a 4G photon, though. Expensive, but remember that you'll save the money over time with lower service costs.
Thank you for the information. I will have to keep them in mind. I can't do much now since I just got my Bionic a few months ago, and honestly, I would hate to not use it, but I am noticing things I never noticed when I had just a basic cell phone.
The whole tethering/hotspot issue isn't one I want to majorly use, and I really don't fully understand it. And it's not like I want to connect up a bunch of devices, just occasionally use my laptop maybe a few times a month to email papers to instructors and maybe download what I need to from the school's servers. Maybe just 50-60MB a month.
Maybe Verizon gives an educational discount? Have you asked?
You're missing the point Thom. I am not someone to double pay someone, especially when they have misled me.
The misleading part came in during the sales pitch about how it could act as a mobile hotspot and I could use it with my laptop without ever once mentioning an extra charge to tap my screen.
The double paying comes in on the fact that I bought the phone that can do the hotspot and that I am already paying for up to 4GB of data.
I am not talking about using more than 4GB of data under my plan. As someone else explained, using a hotspot does not use any extra resources on Verizon's end, it merely shares the single one similar to a home router. To me, this is no different than if when I turned on wifi on the phone, the cable company were to charge me extra for having another device share my internet connection at home.
Not mention, from what Doogald copied, this may not even be against the terms with Verizon to begin with.
Let's also be honest about something else, and that's the hypocrisy on the issue on Verizon's end. They advertise how they want people to use their phone to stream movies and the like. I even have a Blockbuster app that Verizon puts on there that I can not remove and I do not want. So Verizon wants me to use more bandwidth than I currently use and would use sending a few emails and downloading assignments from my school.