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Root General Questions regarding Overclocking

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by jiexi, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. jiexi

    jiexi Lurker
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    I've been getting different answers while researching the effects of overclocking my android phone. I hope somebody here can clear this up for me.

    1. I understand that overclocking will in the end shorten the life of my phone, but is that if the cpu temperature goes past a certain threshold, or does this occur when i clock past the default cpu speed?

    2. How drastically will i be cutting the life of my phone if i overclock slighty and/or 2x the default cpu speed? Htc evo shift is set at 800mhz default, but i can clock to 1.5ghz without it feeling hot. Is this safe? will it cause damage?

    3. Also, does cyanogenmod 7/x99 kernel/smart ass governor (not sure which does it, i think kernel) monitor cpu temp and force phone shutdown or slowdown the cpu if the cpu reaches temperatures that are high enough to cause damage?

    4. or do i need to monitor temperature myself? if so what is safe temperature max for my htc evo shift, and what app should i use to monitor temp?


    My main concern is whether or overclocking will kill my device quickly, or will it be a slow noticeable descent.

    Thanks! Will be checking this in the morning, look forward to the responses.

    EDIT: probably posted this in the wrong section. I apologize :/
     

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  2. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands
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    Overclocking, if done correctly will probably not harm your phone as much as you are lead to believe. I ran an overclocked hero (ramped to the max) for a year, and never saw any ill effects from it. The processor in the shift seems to me to be much more robust than that one was.

    If I was you, I would think twice about overclocking as high as you are talking about. You don't need to. The processor in this phone is very quick. Quicker than some that are advertised as faster. I had mine clocked to 1200, IIRC, and it was barely faster than stock. The only thing you may get by messing with your kernel and clock speeds is optimized battery life.

    As you said, HEAT is the killer of the processor. As long as you keep your phone's processor cool, it should really last indefinitely. I don't remember exactly, as it has been a while since I oc'd, but if you use setcpu, or overclock widget there are settings within either of those to default the settings to lower clock speeds if it sees a rise in temperatures.

    I don't have a clue about cm7 and the smartass kernel. I have been running the rooted stock update since it came out. If you look over at xda, there will probably be some threads about both the rom and kernel somewhere...

    Hope that helps a bit...;)

    :EDIT:

    I just reread your post, and I guess I'm really curious why you think you need to overclock so high? And to add to what I posted, every individual phone is different and the processors all act differently when overclocked. As far as not feeling heat at 1500, You must have a good one, because I felt heat at 1200, when using a data or processor intensive task (a game or streaming a movie or downloading, etc.) Anyway, if you have any more questions, post 'em up, I will do my best!
     
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  3. jiexi

    jiexi Lurker
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    Alrighty, that covers my main concern about damages.

    Well... I game pretty heavily on my shift and i've noticed fps lag when playing NOVA 2, so i clocked up to 1.5ghz (any higher is unstable). I assume since i am not getting full frames that the cpu is speeding up to meet demand and being maxed at 1.5ghz. That's a little bit over 2x the default cpu speed.

    oooo, thank you for that info. Setcpu isn't free :/... Despite that fact, i will be paying for it.

    I don't feel much heat when clocked to 1.5ghz (i assume i am hitting 1.5ghz because i am still not getting full frames in NOVA 2). Its nowhere near as hot as my sister's epic when she leaves it charging under her pillow. Since it has previously alerted her that her battery is too hot and refuses to charge, I assume that if my shift gets anywhere that hot/warm to the touch that i am in a danger zone. sound about right?

    So when i say it doesn't get hot at 1.5ghz, i mean its not at all uncomfortable, probably not as warm as it would be if i kept it in my pocket and walked in the sun for an hour.

    Thanks for your help btw, gave me the detailed responses i was looking for. Definitely clicked register on the right forum.

    EDIT: What's a good temperature to set before i have setCPU slow down the cpu? Is the default 50 Celsius good? or is that too hot/won't allow me to utilize the cpu at 1.5ghz for very long?
     
  4. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands
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    I don't remember what the highest temp you should set it to, I THINK it was like 33 Celsius. Not that hot. I know that there is something in this processor that no matter how high you overclock it, it will never get the refresh rate you are looking for. Between the screen, and the way the processor is configured, I have heard that the FPS rate can never be as good as other phones. It wasn't really built to be a gamer phone, more of a business kind of phone, and that is why they weren't really concerned with features for gamer types... But that is neither here nor there...

    1.5 ghz is almost double what they run it at stock. That is a lot. Not many phones have been able to run that much of an overclock. It is very impressive, really. Or they way underclock it stock, and just sell it that way. But anyway, get setcpu, set it up and see where you are at with temps, and go from there. I would also try and run the thing as low as possible, while still getting the same FPS as you get at 1500. I bet it would surprise you to see how low you could go and still run it the same as it does way hopped up.

    And BTW, Welcome to AF! It is a great community for us phone geeks and non geeks alike. We try to maintain a friendly atmosphere for all to learn from.
     
  5. jiexi

    jiexi Lurker
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    Fair enough, didn't buy it with the intention of gaming lol. Just picked it up after i realized how powerful the device really was.

    Well, I noticed a 10 fps drop when going from 1.5ghz to 1.2ghz (quake 3, standing in the same spot and looking the same direction both times when testing fps)

    I will admit, it was hardly noticeable, i'm guessing screen refresh rate is to blame here. No point getting fps past what the screen can handle. Am i right? can't be placebo effect... or can it...

    But... regardless, there is a %20 fps drop when going down 300 mhz. makes sense... 1.2/1.5 = 4/5 of what i would be getting on max.

    33 Celsius seems pretty low. But i'll do my own research on that.
     
  6. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands
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    Yeah, it isn't too hot, 91.4 F. but I can't remember, it was a while back, and I think I went a little bit warmer than recommended in the app's presets. Maybe it was 43 C... Anyway, sounds like you know about as much as I do at this point, so let me know what your research leads you to... I am interested by this.

    The refresh and FPS, I totally agree with you, and I guess that was what I was trying to say. You spelled it out better than I did lol. It would just be a waste to run it faster than the screen can keep up with. (methinks)

    And I didn't get this phone with any intention of keeping it. I just wanted to have a better phone than my hero until something worthwhile came out. BUT, I am impressed by a lot of things about this phone, and will probably be keeping it until the next round of super phones come out next summer....
     
  7. jiexi

    jiexi Lurker
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    http://androidforums.com/droid-all-...ppose-motorola-kept-droid-clocked-so-low.html

    "The cpu can not only handle much higher temps [than the battery] but can handle them longer. Also if the droid cpu gets to hot it just reboots the phone. I have yet to hear of anyone frying a droid cpu. Have heard of a lot of people whose batteries have gone bad though which could very much be tied to overheating"

    ---------------------------

    What is a safe/unsafe battery temp?

    "Anything above 45C or 113F is not safe for the battery. So if it were me, I would set the max temp in SetCPU to 105F."

    ---------------------------

    I think I fried my droid - Page 4 - Droid Forum - Verizon Droid & the Motorola Droid Forum

    "I was weary of going to the [COLOR=#812528 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#812528 !important][FONT=inherit !important]processors[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] actual speed of 600MHz when it was unlocked. 2 weeks after it came out I took the plunge and ran 600MHz for about 2 weeks. Then I made the jump to 800MHz for 2 weeks. Then I went to 1GHz for 3 weeks and now I've been at 1.2GHz for about 3 weeks.

    So my overclocking has been gradual. This allows my cpu to kind of get adjusted and warmed up to the higher speed as opposed to maxing it out from the start. It's worked great and I think it's the real success behind my stability. And since I've been overclocked, my battery life has increased an amazing amount. But, that's mostly because I underclock it through setcpu."

    That guy is running cpu that has 600mhz stock at 1.2GHz while on AC power = more heat since charging and overclocked. 3 weeks, no problem? I'm sure we can push our evo shifts to 1.5ghz no problem

    What I learned:

    Android will reboot if cpu gets too hot, figured this feature existed. I mean after all... there has to be a hardware fail safe, essentially these phones are just computers and computers have hardware fail safes.

    Battery will most likely fry before CPU, so 104F degrees should be your threshold in setCPU.

    Although it is said that motorola droids are clocked lower than HTC droids are, there are many people that have done near 2x their stock cpu speed without problems. That guy i quoted had his 1.2ghz set on his AC charging profile. He's not complaining about heat issues with his cpu cranked 2x and with the extra heat from the battery charging.

    I think its pretty safe to overclock at this point as long as you remain below the 2x your stock cpu speed.

    I like turtles:

    I will be performing my own temp and performance tests on various cpu speeds, such as 800mhz, 1ghz, 1.2ghz, and 1.5ghz.

    I'm sure screen refresh rate will be the limiting factor when it comes to performance because let's be honest, the HTC evo shift doesn't have the best of screens.
     
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  8. jiexi

    jiexi Lurker
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    Results:

    Speed | Quadrant Benchmark | Benchmark per ghz

    800mhz - 1718 - 2147.5
    1.2ghz - 2236 - 1863.15
    1.3ghz - 2361 - 1816.15
    1.5ghz - 2540 - 1693.33

    ------------------------

    Afterwards, Played 10 mins of Quake 3 on 1.5ghz
    Map: Q3DM7
    Bots: 4
    Skill: Bring it on

    Lowest spike FPS (4 bots in area, 2 rockets & 1 rail on screen): 3-5
    Low End FPS (3+ bots on screen shooting): 11-13
    Average FPS (0-3 bots cutting on and off screen): 25-30
    Best FPS (0 bots, not staring at the ground btw): 35-40



    Start Temp (this was right after benchmarking): 98.1 F
    End Temp (round ended slighty before 10 mins): 105.2 F
    30 mins after End Temp: 96.2 F
    40 mins after End Temp: 93.2 F
    50 mins after End Temp: 90.8 F
    1 hour after End Temp: 90.3 F

    Conclusion:

    Not feasible to run the evo shift at 1.5ghz, at least not in this summer heat without air conditioning (these were the testing conditions). It heats up past the safety temp of 105 F. Although 113 F is considered unsafe, we don't want to get close to it.

    Next strategy:

    Main Profile: 245mhz min, 1.5ghz max
    If above 105 F: 245mhz min, XXghz max

    Next task is to figure out what cpu speed caps below 105 F

    What we are attempting to do, is to allow the evo shift to clock up to 1.5ghz for quick bursts of speed when needed, but only allowing it to run for long durations of time at XXghz. That cpu speed must have a temperature cap that will not exceed 105 F

    Also, not a bad idea to set a second temperature cap in setCPU.
    If above 108 F: 245mhz min, 800 mhz max
    This will ensure the battery is not harmed as 800 mhz is the factory default (and thus we assume, safe) cpu speed.
     
  9. jiexi

    jiexi Lurker
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    Did some more research

    "Batteries are the next issue we need to discuss because heat is their enemy. If you overclock at a high enough frequency you are going to use more battery and generate more heat.

    Subjective/Opinion: You should try to keep the battery between 32F (0c) - 120F (48.9c)
    Subjective/Fact: As you approach cross 120F on the battery you are actually causing the battery to discharge at a faster rate. Even if the CPU isn't putting a large demand on it.

    Getting your Droid's ambient temperature (the whole droid) above 130F for any length of time should be considered a bad idea. The battery itself is the issue. When a lithium-ion battery reaches around 140F, it can enter the state of "self heating" or more commonly referred to as "thermal runaway". Reach this state enough times or holding it there too long and the battery will become unusable as the individual cells of the battery break down from thermal overload.

    The second issue is that the battery is the single largest surface area that can generate heat in the Droid. This heat is radiated in all directions. While the Droids back door is designed as a heat sink, the mother board on the opposite side is not. That heat will soak into the motherboard and it will eventually cause issues. Most notably Force Closes (Applications failure), erratic behaviors and finally failure of the Droid. The OMAP3430 CPU and support chips also generate heat. If both occur, you can actually heat soak the Droid to the point of failure by causing components to fail do to stress. What kind of stress? Physical. Remember grade school science? Heat something it expands and when cooled it contracts. Let's look at where that happens in the Droid.

    Each material used in making a device has a different expansion and contraction rate based on their heating and cooling cycle. So, the mother board will expand and contract at a different rate than the solder. The solder will expand and contract a different rate than the leg of the chip. The leg of the chip will expand and contract at a different rate than the packaging and wafer it is connected to. As you heat soak the surface mount component they will go through this cycle from several times a day to sometimes several times a minute. As this happens, stress is being applied to the solder joints and the wafer in the chip. This stress will eventually cause a crack. If the crack breaks a connection, the chip fails and you buy a new Droid. The question of course is [COLOR=#660000 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#660000 !important][FONT=inherit !important]simple[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]. How many times does this have to happen before guaranteed failure of either the solder point or of the chip itself? That is an answer that NO ONE can give with absolute certainty. We can only calculate a MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure). BTW, don't bother looking for the MTBF of the Droid. They have never stated it. Because the amount of testing to figure it out simply costs too much to be useful. But now you see why the Droid was underclocked to 550Mhz. The odds of it failing are greatly reduced. "


    Also... if you read the back of your battery (gotta turn off your evo shift and pull it out), it says its rated to up to 60C or 140 F.

    Many people have reported 120-130 F while running pandora, navigation/gps, on their car dashboard in the sun. Causes slowdowns, but doesn't damage phone.

    ---------------

    "I have my SetCPU settings set to start downclocking as soon as it gets anywhere above 122 (50 C). If it runs for too long at or close to 140, (60C) then the heat will start heating the battery, and the phone will reboot."


    Confirmed again that the device shuts itself down when it gets to dangerous levels, however preventive measures should be taken.
     
  10. jiexi

    jiexi Lurker
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    Update:

    So been playing around with settings. Not sure whats causing it, but when clocked to 1.5ghz and doing something such as internet surfing, the phone will crash and restart if a phone call comes in.

    I'm assuming in low memory/high cpu usage situations, the phone will lock up if a call comes in.

    Since then i've installed the Dewonkifier for CM7 and clocked at and between 1.3ghz and 1.5ghz . No issue since. Not sure which fixed it

    Pretty hard to get the temp of the battery past 115 F, but... have setCPU profiles to slowdown the cpu when it happens.

    Im starting to feel that 1.3ghz is a more stable and more balanced cpu speed. Although 1.5ghz doesnt cause immediate crashes, i feel as though the phone locks up under higher performance situations when multiple programs/services are running.

    I can't say 1.3ghz is much slower either. Can barely tell the difference if any on fps while playing NOVA 2 on 1.5ghz and 1.3ghz . I'm sure in areas with multiple enemies, fps will drop more on the lower cpu speed, but... i'm having a hard time telling most likely due to the refresh rate on the screen being the limiting factor.

    Still playing around, and cant definitively say which speed is better. I like my phone ramped up to its MAX, but... not if it causes occasional crashes, especially if a phone call is coming in. but... like i said, i like my phone revved to its max.
     

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