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Google Responds to Oracle Patent Infringement Claims

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by phandroid, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. phandroid

    phandroid Admin News Bot
    Thread Starter

    Google isn’t pleased with the latest suit filed against them and their open source Android OS. Oracle is claiming that seven of their patents are infringed upon in Android and its accompanying Dalvik virtual machine. The suit has dollar signs written all over, as Oracle recently acquired Sun Microsystems with intentions to reap the benefits [...]

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  2. substring

    substring Android Enthusiast

    Larry Ellison is evil. He likes to buy up companies, takes their technologies and then lays off the people.

    Google should buy Oracle and then fire Larry Ellison. ;)
     
  3. PhoenixFx

    PhoenixFx Well-Known Member

    That would be a little hard to do since Oracle is the bigger company ;)
     
  4. BobPaul

    BobPaul Well-Known Member

    How is that evil?
     
  5. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants

    Because they are nothing but patent trolls using the antiquated patent system as a weapon and means to make money from people doing real work. That's how.
     
  6. BobPaul

    BobPaul Well-Known Member

    Bwahahahah! Oracle a patent troll? BS of the highest order.

    You've no idea how the world works. Oracle is Sun and they OWN Java. It is their property. They did the work.

    It is GOOD to increase profitability not evil.
     
  7. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants

    Wait what? Oracle BOUGHT Sun, they didn't create shit. They BOUGHT it so they can sue everyone who uses it. Get your facts straight.

    Noob.
     
    Big D likes this.
  8. BobPaul

    BobPaul Well-Known Member

    I have my facts straight. They had a pooling of assets. This means that the exact same entity that created Java still owns Java. That entity is just now a part of a greater entity. Would you argue that Sun's intellectual property ceases to exist just because Oracle buys Sun? If so you'd be wrong.

    Also, corps exist for the shareholders not the employees. I get so sick of people that miss this very important fact.

    And please don't now start assuming that I am in favor of mistreating
    employees. You will be wrong when you start down that path.
     
  9. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Seriously? You do you really believe that?

    IP laws/patents are such a joke anyways. The flawed system needs to be fixed.

    All IP patents do is stifle innovation/invention. Which is the opposite of it's intended purpose when it was put into place. Now companies use it to have virtual monopolies. Give me a break.
     
  10. Big D

    Big D Well-Known Member

    Actually you don't have your facts straight...
    Direct From Oracles Site
    You must work for Oracle... or you're a fanboy :eek:
     
  11. SocaLand

    SocaLand Newbie

    Wow. Another subscriber to the "greed is good" mantra.
     
  12. storm14k

    storm14k Member

    I find his statement funny since it won't increase their profits. Sure Oracle owns Java (which Sun open sourced and is STILL open source which almost obliterates Oracle's case from the jump) but they don't own Spring, Tomcat, Jetty, Eclipse, Apache Commons, MyFaces, PrimeFaces, OpenFaces, IceFaces, Guice, Wicket, Struts, Tapestry, Vaadin, Hibernate, Groovy, Grails, Scala, Clojure and on and on.... These are open source projects that make Java what it is. Java without them is just a language and a run time. If you develop with Java you'd find that you will get almost absolutely nowhere without using at least one of these projects especially once you leave desktop development. Some of these projects are backed by corporations that make continue them. Some are basically volunteer based and these guys don't have to keep these projects up at all. They can easily switch their work to another platform. And with them would go the developers that rely on these projects to get work done. And these projects are used by many major shops....they aren't just hobby projects.

    Oracle made a serious miscalculation here and everywhere I got on the internet thats Java related I see people already looking for the alternative platform to rally around. I'd like to see Oracle attempt to support all of these projects themselves.
     
    substring likes this.
  13. ari-free

    ari-free Android Expert

    You don't win in the long run by creating lots of enemies and ticking everyone off.
     
  14. woofermazing

    woofermazing Well-Known Member

    Sun was extraordinarily lax in defending their copyrights. This is a complete shift in ideology.

    Former employees of Sun have also made it known that Oracle's focus during the purchase negotiations was whether or not they had a case for suing Google.

    http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-...Android-Part-of-AntiOpen-Source-Drive-269739/
     
  15. BobPaul

    BobPaul Well-Known Member

    Sounds like we have a bunch of slackers 'round here. Least wise we don't have many herein that create intellectual property.

    I bet you guys share MP3 files as well?

    Are you the same group that copies software CD's?

    And to the poster above RE: patents, it does exactly the opposite of what you think. Patents give you a MONOPOLY and it does so to by giving an incentive to people who take risk inventing new things. And that MONOPOLY is an asset which is what Oracle OWNS.
     
    spb21 likes this.
  16. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants

    Lol seriously dude?

    1.) Archiving a software cd is perfectly legal.

    2.) Sharing mp3s doesn't hurt the artists like the RIAA wants you to believe. That is 100% fact. Google it.

    The patent system was designed to help create innovation. In return for the patent, the methods/knowledge of what the patent cover has to be shared so others can reproduce it later on down the road. The lobbists of large corporations basically bribed congress to break the once functional patent system

    Todays patent system as we know it is a complete farce. It is nowhere near its original intentions, and granting a virtual monoply for 10 20 even 30 years is simply obscene. Its so distorted some 3rd world countries are better off then we are, regarding this subject.

    Not to mention as someone mention it was open sourced years ago. This is purely a money grab by oracle, and this case is shooting themselves in the foot. If. By some miracle they win, developers will simply drop java altogether.the syntax is so close to other runtimes it wouldn't take much to switch.

    Are you the type that also says the us constitution are more really like general guidelines than rules? If so, id call that borderline treason(if you live stateside.
     
  17. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Android Expert

    IOWA...

    Well,Sun is the steward of Java. As far back as 2007, Google pretty much gave Sun the middle finger; thinking they can lead the direction of Java. This dispute has been well documented. Sun wasn't the type to pursue litigation. Oracle, on the other hand, has every reason to do so as the new owner.

    This was their "FU" middle finger salute response in 2007.

    Source:Sun's worried that Google Android could fracture Java | Underexposed - CNET News

    This goes against their "Do no evil Mantra" They totally sidestepped the licensing of the JVM for handsets. Java is open source but not the JVM.

    Here is another article from way as far back as 2007,
    Dalvik - Google's tweaked, non-standard JVM for Android!!!! - O'Reilly ONJava Blog
    Pretty much, Google wanted to fracture Java and go about in their own direction.


    Bottom and short line:

    When Sun GPL Java, they only did it for the standard version. The mobile version requires every mobile device to be licensed w/ Java ME
    Nokia paid, so did others. I remember Toshiba paying for Java ME license. Google didn't want to pay. They
    wanted to use standard JVM. The problem is standard JVM doesn't allow any company to fork it (original Microsoft lawsuit).
    Each JVM needs to pass a certain testing kit and behave like Sun's JVM.So instead of settling for the standard JVM, or license the ME, Google decided to create their own JVM. Only it is not a JVM, rather a superset of it.
    Then when Android launch, remember that 10 million prize. Sure sounds like a bribe to me.


    Again, going against the "Do no evil policy" If you care to google some of the Java Me mailing lists, the "bribe" mantra has been discussed many times but Java developers in 2007. I never saw that coming and now it sort of makes sense.

    If you care to google and search. The discontent among many developers, Sun, and analysts go way as far back as 2007. So there is definitely a trail of discontent.

    Again, this was talked about way back in 2007.
    Google and Sun may butt heads over Android | ITworld
    Here are some comments I made on another post....

    Well, I read some more of this and this blog post from 2007, yes, 2007, explains why Oracle has a solid case:
    Stefano’s Linotype Dalvik: how Google routed around Sun’s IP-based licensing restrictions on Java ME


    I also read this comment on another blog:

    Have in mind, all these quotes are from 2007 and not some post-litigation August 2010 articles.
     
  18. darreno1

    darreno1 Android Enthusiast

    Interesting info but there seems to be a whole of lot 'ifs' 'ands' or 'buts' in that story which makes it seem less and less of a 'slam dunk' case. We'll see.
     
  19. bluenova

    bluenova OK Computer

    mrsspeedmaster...

    I don't have all the facts but just wanted to quote something that didn't make sense in your post...

    So as Dalvik is Open Source google is compiling by sharing the innovations with the community?
     
  20. So why the hell didn't Google just acquire Sun itself? Would have solved a lot of headaches....
     
  21. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Android Expert

    Dalvik is a substitute (round about) JVM. They are not contributing back to the JVM source repository. They're making it an independent project. That is the difference. They're forking it which goes against the original tenant of Java being written once, run anywhere. You can run a .dex file in a regular JVM and you can run class files in Android's Dalvik.
     
  22. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants

    But if the Dalvik engine is still Google's own project, Oracle still has no case. Period. Should windows go sue Wine and other emulators because it can read .exe's?

    And that still doesn't help with that other issue of how messed up our patent system in in the first place.

    And I'm sure if Oracle would let Google contribute back to the repository, they would.
     
  23. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Android Expert

    That was the same reasoning behind Microsoft's Visual J++ and it costed them 920 million dollars.

    Microsoft tried to fork Java for performance reasons on their platform. Same thing with Dalvik. Google does not want to use JVME and based Dalvik off JVMSE. They did this to avoid licensing.

    Read this article: Oracle's Java lawsuit undermines its open source credibility

    and

    Ellison wrestles Google to strangle 'unofficial' Java ? The Register


    They're using the Java programming language without respecting the tenants of Java. Need proof, go to the SDK website.

    What is Android? | Android Developers

    and
    and

    Above quotes from GOOGLE no less.


    You need to develop with Java language. Period. You are using Java technolog. They're bastardizing the language. They're forking it. Replacing core SE classes with their own.

    As a company with a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, Oracle needs to vigorously defend its patents.


    I posted an article from 2007 where Sun raised their concerns about Dalvik and Google pretty much gave them the middle finger and said, they're enhancing Java. Pretty much said, "we'll go in the direction we want.Take it or leave it"


    This quote from the Register pretty much explains WHY oracle needs to do this:
    source:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/13/oracle_google_java_prosecution/page2.html
     
  24. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants

    Oracle still doesn't have a case.

    Seriously... Java was invented in 1994. Having a patent for 16+ Years still be valid is rather ridiculous.

    Oh and the J++ thing, that was a trademark lawsuit. They were branding it as Java compatible when it really wasn't, so doesn't apply here.
     
  25. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Android Expert

    Many of the blogs and recent trade articles from tech publications I've posted tend to disagree with you.

    Java is only GPLv2. Remember that.
     
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