Help GPS issues?

[drjmo]

I have spirent-lcs in the LBs Testmode settings for the GPS. Oh, and being an IT scaremonger, what does the secure socket do - is it wise to turn it off? *grabs tinfoil hat*.

 

[Sleuth]

OK, I've MyTracks tested before and after with these settings changes and while the afters were better, I think the before was so bad you'd be tempted to call it a fluke (it couldn't possibly be that bad). The afters were still no where near good enough, the reading jumping around all over the place.

Right now, given Samsung's lack of communication I have no confidence that the new firmware will improve things at all.

 

[s.m.knipe]

Hi all, I haven't ordered my Captivate yet, but intend to within the next pay period, and just had a thought...
Has it been posted anywhere what chip Samsung is using? I've have searched quite a bit, but cannot find anything other than that it is "A-GPS and NMEA 0183 supported." If anyone knows of a reliable site or company that might report this information I will gladly search/pester them about the brand and/or model number of the chipset and antennae. I have watched three different tear downs and read the reports but they all seem to gloss over the GPS. As a last resort, if anyone could point me in the direction of where the antennae might be and what it looks like, I can try to isolate it on the videos, as at least one was in HD.
I know there is a lot of debate over whether it is a hardware or software issue, but if we can rule out a notoriously bad chip/antennae, then that would be comforting...

 

[Beards]

I know there is a lot of debate over whether it is a hardware or software issue, but if we can rule out a notoriously bad chip/antennae, then that would be comforting...

The trouble is the SGS is one of the first devices to use the new BT3/GPS/FM chipsets so its not surprising there will be problems and a few bugs to iron out.

 

[Deleted User]

Hi!


I brought home my Galaxy S yesterday and after reading this thread decided to test the performance of the GPS unit. The results were .

I used My Tracks out-of-the-box, and I have changed no hidden settings on the phone. Details on F/W etc below.

Location: Stockholm, Sweden; roughly 59 deg 18' N, 17 deg 59' E.
The track as recorded: Galaxy S Test 01 - Google Maps

1. Before I set out, I had given the phone plenty of time (> 15 min) to sync in with the satellites. I live on the top floor and GPS Test reported 5-7 satellites in use (fluctuating).
2. I then walked downstairs (1-2 minutes) and along a small path to the street, where I started the track. Starting point is fairly accurate.
3. The entire time I walked I held the phone screen up in front of me.
4. I walked east along the road 200 m or less, stepped into a building where I ordered a pizza (< 5 min), then stepped outside to wait (~ 10 min). While waiting, I had the phone pocketed and out alternatingly.
5. I walked back along the same road, turned right (north) then left (west) to arrive back at the building. End point is off by some 5 m.

As you can see, GPS performance is atrocious. The position bounces wildly and is not maintained even while standing still.

Model GT-I9000
Firmware 2.1-update1
Baseband I9000XXJF3
Kernel 2.6.29 umts_scm@S1-BUILD05 #2
Build ECLAIR

Time to place my very first call on the Galaxy S - to Samsung's support line.

Cheers,


/Uffe

 

[krillo]

Hi Uffe,

Judging from your map you are either SpiderMan or your GPS sucks as it does for the rest of us. Interesting what they will tell you on the Samsung support, I called them last week and they were fairly clueless. Make sure to ask about the next firmware - we need to bug them more

//Kristian

 

[Deleted User]

Hi again,


Just got off the phone with Samsung support in Sweden.
The call was answered promptly and I spoke with a 1st-line rep who was courteous and informed, and who confirmed that this is a known issue in the software.

The issue will be addressed in the upcoming software release, but he couldn't give me a date for that nor anywhere to go for further information; the release will be announced on the support site when it occurs but other than that it's wait and see.

He also said that this fix may be rolled into the Android 2.2 upgrade, or again may not. There have, he said, been no previous software updates released for this phone, though possibly later batches have fresher software installed.

Thus far what I got from Samsung.

My own take is that this is good in that a hardware error would be far harder to fix: the model would need to be recalled, you would have to bring your phone in for replacement, etc.

I am a little concerned though that this software was not in better shape from start, especially since the GPS receiver is such an integral part of this type of unit. To me, this indicates poor project planning and/or quality control over at Samsung.

The reluctance on Samsung's part to provide firm release dates may also indicate poor project management, but on the other hand may equally well indicate that the release is imminent, or again they may simply not wish to disclose such information to the competition.

Either way, I am happy with the information I have received and pleased with Samsung's support staff.

Cheers,


/Uffe

 

[Beards]

Uffe,
Have you tried any of the settings that have been previously supplied in this thread?

 

[krillo]

Hi, I'd like to share two My Tracks recordings I did with the car during my lunchbreak. I am running the modified settings described before, using google for the assisted GPS - I am also running with "Hot start".

I drove to a pizza place some 8 km away. Both ways:

To the Pizza place - Assisted GPS (Wireless networks + GPS)
Assisted Gps - Google Maps

Back to work - Pure GPS
Pure Gps - Google Maps

My findings were that A-GPS produced a more inaccurate map, at some points I was on the wrong side of the road, driving in the forest etc. The pure GPS was more dead on, it just seemed to ended my trip recording prematurely - not sure why. Can't say if either setting locked on faster, seemed equal to me - perhaps <10 sec.

 

[milsjg]

Hi,
Just made a track in My Track having the phone resting on the table besides the computer for 21 minutes. As you can see the track will fluctuate, however this is just for the first minute. During the following 20 minutes it locks down to the corner of the house where I am sitting. I really do not know why the tracks don't show the total track on Google but I think that,s due to the precision of the GPS. It seems that it wasn't able to transfer the map from My Walk accurately. But let me asure you that the position never exceeded five meters from my computer.

I can't complain. It get a fix with in seconds. It get a good track from cardiotrainer. I am able to use Google maps when I am driving but it is much slower and inaccurate at least from the beginning. I am happy with my SGS it just work fine.

The house is a brick house. I am using JG5 firmware. The GPS is set to cold start (witch explains the fluctuation in the beginning) otherwise it's just standard but rooted.
The Map

 

[Beards]

It appears we are not the only one's being ignored by Samsung......
Clove's latest attempt at getting the representative to come forth is proving a little pointless at the moment:-

Mike

We understand your concerns and have been attempting to clarify the release date of the update and how it will be implemented it with our Samsung representative. This information has however not been yet been provided to us, but when it is available it will be immediately forwarded it on to you.


Regards



Sales Team


Clove Technology



TEL: +44 (0)1202 552936
FAX: +44 (0)1202 552937



Email: sales@clove.co.uk
Website: www.clove.co.uk

Blog: blog.clove.co.uk

 

[appelflap]

Hi!


I brought home my Galaxy S yesterday and after reading this thread decided to test the performance of the GPS unit. The results were .

I used My Tracks out-of-the-box, and I have changed no hidden settings on the phone. Details on F/W etc below.

Location: Stockholm, Sweden; roughly 59 deg 18' N, 17 deg 59' E.
The track as recorded: Galaxy S Test 01 - Google Maps
..

So... what exactly were you doing in all those houses?

 

[larryccf]

Hi all, I haven't ordered my Captivate yet, but intend to within the next pay period, and just had a thought...
Has it been posted anywhere what chip Samsung is using? I've have searched quite a bit, but cannot find anything other than that it is "A-GPS and NMEA 0183 supported." If anyone knows of a reliable site or company that might report this information I will gladly search/pester them about the brand and/or model number of the chipset and antennae. I have watched three different tear downs and read the reports but they all seem to gloss over the GPS. As a last resort, if anyone could point me in the direction of where the antennae might be and what it looks like, I can try to isolate it on the videos, as at least one was in HD.
I know there is a lot of debate over whether it is a hardware or software issue, but if we can rule out a notoriously bad chip/antennae, then that would be comforting...

one of the first threads on this issue in xda developers forum, either the galaxy s i9000 general forum or the galaxy vibrant forum, a couple of pages into the thread a poster said he was going to see if he could identify the chip & mfgr - a few post later he popped up indicating it was one of his company's chipsets (apparently he works for a gps chipmaker) and apologized that he had to leave the thread - i don't blame him but he did identify the make of the chipset

i'm heading out for dinner and will look when i get back, but if you beat me to it, go ahead

 

[Beards]

one of the first threads on this issue in xda developers forum, either the galaxy s i9000 general forum or the galaxy vibrant forum, a couple of pages into the thread a poster said he was going to see if he could identify the chip & mfgr - a few post later he popped up indicating it was one of his company's chipsets (apparently he works for a gps chipmaker) and apologized that he had to leave the thread - i don't blame him but he did identify the make of the chipset

i'm heading out for dinner and will look when i get back, but if you beat me to it, go ahead

The chap you are talking of over in xda-devs is TravUK and I mentioned above the chip he refers to is the new BT3/GPS/FM chipsets.

 

[larryccf]

i saw that but i thought he had identified the manufacturer by name - i'm not electronics smart (actually i'm rather ignorant electronics wise) so if that is identified in your descript, no need for me to find that link

 

[Donaldkbart]

The chap you are talking of over in xda-devs is TravUK and I mentioned above the chip he refers to is the new BT3/GPS/FM chipsets.

so good chip or bad chip. I wish Samsung IR chip maker would make a statement so we know what the problem is

 

[larryccf]

okay - found the post identifying the gps chip mfgr

"Actually, from the spec's it does look like one of ours, namely the InCrystal 20751, with GPS/BT3/FM support. So anything I did learn I wouldnt be able to share anyway."

 

[Evil Peter]

It appears we are not the only one's being ignored by Samsung......
Clove's latest attempt at getting the representative to come forth is proving a little pointless at the moment:-

Mike

We understand your concerns and have been attempting to clarify the release date of the update and how it will be implemented it with our Samsung representative. This information has however not been yet been provided to us, but when it is available it will be immediately forwarded it on to you.


Regards



Sales Team


Clove Technology



TEL: +44 (0)1202 552936
FAX: +44 (0)1202 552937



Email: sales@clove.co.uk
Website: www.clove.co.uk

Blog: blog.clove.co.uk

The last time I spoke to a representative from Samsung (earlier this week) he said that the GPS problem is a known software issue that will be taken care of with a firmware update, as we already know. He could however not say when that firmware was to be released and said it's even possible it will be baked into the FroYo upgrade.

If it would be baked into the FroYo upgrade it looks like we'll have to wait until September as a French interview with Samsung got confirmation that that's when they will get the update out in France (and you can probably assume that the release in the rest of Europe is simultaneous).

 

[wdri]

From what I've read so far, I think that after each "fix" (each

 

[milsjg]

Actually if you search for InCrystal 20751 on Google you only get two hits both from cites of TravUK which claims he is an expert in microprocessors and drivers. Well I wonder if he mistaken and that he really means InConsert 20751 from Broadcom that is a new three in one chip.

 

[grousey]

I've changed the GPS settings a few times now and my lock seems to be quick and accurate.

The only problem now is that the GPS seems to be permanently stuck on. Even if I close all applications there little satellite icon flickers away in the notification bar.

Any ideas which setting I've changed which could have caused this?

 

[s.m.knipe]

Sorry I have been away for a few days (vacation), but it does seem likely that this "InConcert 20751" is the chip used. I base this not only on the opinion of our above mentioned and mysterious expert, but also on Broadcom's own claim that this chipset is "50%" more power effecient- something very desirable for a phone company trying to put out the longest lasting smartphone (remember the crazy-sounding claims about battery life in the early specs?).

I therefore agree with "milsjg" over at XDA that since Broadcom says that the chip saves this power by relying partially on the main CPU, perhaps there is not the best communication between the chips or protocols or whatever. I could easily see a company like Samsung being so confident in their newest and market-best Hummingbird processor, that they assumed an attitude of bravado that their chip can handle the load and the issue was little looked-into.

That being said, I would think that if the issue can be shown to be a communication or protocol error, the good news is that it should be fixable by firmware, right? Even though Broadcom is mostly advertising/pushing the music and BT 3 functions of the chip, surely the GPS components would not be downgraded in such a new chip...

On a side-note; why is Broadcom always such a pain with anything linux-based? (Up until Lucid Lynx, getting my wifi to work on my old HP was always a pain...)

 

[phaedrus]

Sorry I have been away for a few days (vacation), but it does seem likely that this "InConcert 20751" is the chip used. I base this not only on the opinion of our above mentioned and mysterious expert, but also on Broadcom's own claim that this chipset is "50%" more power effecient- something very desirable for a phone company trying to put out the longest lasting smartphone (remember the crazy-sounding claims about battery life in the early specs?).

It's quite good if that is indeed the chip, as the specs state that it's capable of locking onto 24 satellites simultaneously - so the '10 locked satellites' limit can presumably be overcome in firmware (if it exists).

Also, those specs suggest it's got an FM transmitter too!! It would be very cool if someone could get that working.

 

[larryccf]

that must be the same chip the nokia n8 will be shipped with - i like the idea of piping the GPS Nav turn instructions thru the car's stereo

if indeed that is the chip samsung uses, it'd be nice if someone did an app to allow us to use it without rooting

 

[sjdean]

I could easily see a company like Samsung being so confident in their newest and market-best Hummingbird processor, that they assumed an attitude of bravado that their chip can handle the load and the issue was little looked-into.

You know, I heard a rumour that 512 Meg of memory should be addressable on Android 2.1, but not on the Samsung line of processors.... that comes in a much later Kernel 2.6.32....

Cya
Simon