Hacking Subforum Request

[Sepero]

Hi all, I was just wondering if would be possible to add a Hacking subforum under the Development forum? I've posted a couple guides in the LG Motion subforms, but most of the stuff that I do is hacking. Taking something pre-existing and modifying it for a different or better purpose. Things like editing /data files, doing scripts and commands in the terminal. Everything completely unrelated to "developing an app". Unfortunately, all the subforums currently are focused around "developing an app".

The xda forums seem to be lively with this type of stuff, but I'd rather they weren't the only exclusive ones. I'm more interested in dissecting an app than developing one. Here is a Guide that I made in the LG Motion 4G subforum that I think would be a much better fit with a general Hacking subforum: http://androidforums.com/motion-4g-all-things-root/658855-guide-installing-bash-nano-android.html

I also have a Guide in the works for launching scripts at device boot. I imagine it too would go better in such a forum.

I'm not an app developer. I'm a hacker of the entire Android operating system. This is my Hacking subforum request.

 

[EarlyMon]

I liked your bash thread, I hack stuff like that on mine.

Hmmmm.... interesting. I think we'll get some kickback on the name though...

 

[Phases]

The term 'hack' has got a bad rap. Not opposed to it. Perhaps modding or something to that effect.

Perhaps iron out those details, and see if there is any interest by posting in suggestion box?

 

[scary alien]

I like this idea, too!

Lots of Android-generic things that could be put into such a forum.

Perhaps call it "white hat hacking"?

Also, XDA commonly uses "hacking" in their forum structure: http://forum.xda-developers.com/

Thanks!

 

[Sepero]

I'm really happy to hear you liked the Guide on installing Bash and everyones support on this request. :five:

The media and those who aren't on the inside often think of "hacking" as a bad thing. But as hackers, we who we are, and we like the term hacker. If we see that word "Hacking", we know we are in the right place. The place that isn't afraid to change things around, implement tools in ways never imagined, and get down dirty in the guts of the operating system.

As stated in the OP, I've had a Guide in the works, and now it's ready to be written. It allows the user to run scripts at system boot time (similar to a guide written at xda, but easier and uninstallable).

I'm just waiting to hopefully hear a positive result on this decision.

 

[Bob Cat]

I'm really happy to hear you liked the Guide on installing Bash and everyones support on this request. :five:

The media and those who aren't on the inside often think of "hacking" as a bad thing. But as hackers, we who we are, and we like the term hacker. If we see that word "Hacking", we know we are in the right place. The place that isn't afraid to change things around, implement tools in ways never imagined, and get down dirty in the guts of the operating system.

As stated in the OP, I've had a Guide in the works, and now it's ready to be written. It allows the user to run scripts at system boot time (similar to a guide written at xda, but easier and uninstallable).

I'm just waiting to hopefully hear a positive result on this decision.

I too like it and would visit it often but it's all up to the Boss.

BC

 

[EarlyMon]

Let me put some alternatives together and move this to the suggestion box later today.

I liked your script for swapping the sd cards, the way things were meant to be, we have something similar for the Evo 4G LTE.

I think with a few simple probes, that can be modified to work with any phone (mine uses ext_sd as an example of a difference).

Here's my bash, I kept meaning to add terminfo to it lol - http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-lte-all-things-root/576930-how-get-bash-in-terminal-emulator.html

 

[sammyz]

As stated in the OP, I've had a Guide in the works, and now it's ready to be written. It allows the user to run scripts at system boot time (similar to a guide written at xda, but easier and uninstallable).

What if you unbricked it?

I also like the idea of a hacking/modding subforum
But, not everything works with all phones. Some things could work on one phone and brick another.

 

[EarlyMon]

What about other names, as Phases advises?

How about - Android System User Mods?

Thoughts?

PS - I think we'll have to warn that not all mods are appropriate to all phones and that users may need to proceed with risk. I also think we'll need guidelines for posting set up so we can separate the good from the not-so-good.

 

[scary alien]

What about other names, as Phases advises?

How about - Android System User Mods?

Thoughts?

PS - I think we'll have to warn that not all mods are appropriate to all phones and that users may need to proceed with risk. I also think we'll need guidelines for posting set up so we can separate the good from the not-so-good.

I like that name, EM!

We could ask thread makers to add "[xyz]" type prefix tags to their thread titles or ask them to always start off the OP with something like:

works on: all HTC devices except HTC Droid Eris
root required: no
Android version: 2.3 and higher

...etc. and similar to the various questions you get asked when you create a thread over at rootzwiki (except I'm guessing they tag/keep this metadata to allow you to easily search various things).

FYI, here are some of the tags that rootz uses:

Source:
Mod Type: Application
Difficulty: Very Easy
Mod Status: Beta
Mod Base:
Carrier:
Requires Root: No
Apply In: Other (See Description)
Optional: Optional:
Android Version:

Just an idea...thanks!

 

[SUroot]

Go for it

 

[Sepero]

If I may, I would really like to support the subforum being called "Hacking" (or at minimum have the word "hacking" in it). We would only be offending people completely ignorant to the field, but that's sort of inevitable. This forums users tend to be a little more informed than the average person, and a sticky could be made stating what hacking is, and what kind of hacking is allowed. If the name "hacking" still posed a problem, it could always be changed in the future.

@EarlyMon & sammyz
"warn that not all mods are appropriate to all phones"
Excellent point for sure. It could have a good fit in the description of the subforum (and possibly in a sticky too).

@scary alien
Great idea about having a prefix on the titles. (I actually support all threads having a prefix). And I think the idea of tagging/metadata is great too. Perhaps something like that could eventually be software implemented.

 

[SUroot]

It depends. Most of what we do is not hacking so I don't think we should use the term. Not because it offends anyone or gives the wrong impression.... Or even that I dislike the word...

Simply because I do not actually agree that is what we are talking about; at least - not in full.

In android terms, hacking would be grabbing your new phone that had just come out and seeking exploits to the Bootloader / Security Flag / System protection with a view to allow the device to be rooted and flashed. That is hacking

Anything else we're talking about, scripts, modifiying frameworks, javas, .db files etc is not hacking. Its simply customising or modifying. This is why we probably shouldn't use the word hacking because by definition, thats not what we want represented in this forum.

However I agree this forum needs to exist.

 

[Phases]

Just.. entertain me here. What would be the difference between what goes on in this forum, and the phone ATR forums?

 

[Rxpert83]

It seems like it would be more of a Rom/kernel development 101.

That could easily go in individual atr subforums, but I'm sure there are generalized guides that can apply to many devices for people looking to get into that side of development rather than apps.

I see it as boiling down to the same reason we only have one s3 main forum(which I support)-why have 5 threads discussing the same thing in multiple subforums.

 

[scary alien]

I kind of see it like a central repository for tips/tricks/hacks that might be applicable across more than one device (no specific ATR "home").

I'm certain there are already islands of great information squirreled-away in the various ATR sub-forums that would greatly benefit others (if only they knew about them).

 

[EarlyMon]

^this especially

We have duplicates of bash and text editor installations, sd card partitioning tricks, /data partioning tricks, sd card mounting tricks, adb tricks for full backups of your phone to your pc, and a number of threads on script installers for things like the V6 SuperCharger, just to name a few that can be safely applied to either all phones or the majority of them.

I could easily name several more.

The advantages of a dedicated forum -

• Almost none of these efforts get refined from collaboration. A common area could solve that.
  
• Those of us doing this are scattered into various ATRs for phones we own. Mods are squirreled away.
  
• Regular users miss out because we're such a minority working out these things.
• Many that could benefit from these efforts never hear of them or may never consider that some things are not really set in stone.

It will take time and effort to maintain by users and there's no telling if it would take off or not.

Because this would be a results-oriented area for all users, not just rooters, I would see it as its own forum in the Android Discussion area, and therefore allow for future subforums if it does take off.

 

[Sepero]

@SUroot
This makes things more clear, as it appears that we just have a difference of definitions for hacking.

In android terms, hacking would be grabbing your new phone that had just come out and seeking exploits to the Bootloader / Security Flag / System protection with a view to allow the device to be rooted and flashed. That is hacking

I agree with that. I would say that is one subset of hacking.

Anything else we're talking about, scripts, modifiying frameworks, javas, .db files etc is not hacking.

I suppose this is where we differ, because I would say that when I do these things, I am hacking too.

I tend to use a broad definition of hacking, similar to that defined by the free software foundation.

• Words to Avoid (or Use with Care) Because They Are Loaded or Confusing - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)
• On Hacking - Richard Stallman

There are definitely lots of different categories of hacking, but perhaps you and others are right. To align with the most common usage, maybe something like "Modding" is better.

Perhaps a "Modding" and "Hacking" subforum? We don't disallow bootloader, rooting, and flashing roms here, right? If we are making a definitional division, then that would appear to create potential for 2 new subforums.

What is the common word usage among other forums?

 

[Rxpert83]

Xda calls it hacking for some things but developing is a better word for what we are describing here. People who make the mods/roms/kernels are developers.

I'd leave hacking to the guys who are the ones actually trying to figure out getting around bootloader security or the ones who got 4g working on the nexus 4

Just my 2 cents

 

[EarlyMon]

My first boss, who started programming in the 50s, would bring me things that others couldn't solve and tell me that he needed a hacker to fix it. Most people at work hated my hacker nature but couldn't argue with results. I once replaced a sort routine for a very large data set that took over an hour on a minicomputer with a Sieve of Eratosthenes that ran in seconds.

What I dislike about the term is that anymore, most calling themselves hackers are not hackers at all. It's they who've given our skills a bad rep.

Anyway, this is our deal, so I wouldn't mind if we came up with our own name if outside terms can't be found.

Android Fixes - Because yes, it's not really done

Android Enhancements -

Android DIY Club - I kinda like this one you join just by lurking!

Android User Mods -

... others??

 

[EarlyMon]

PS - for the record, I would say that a hacker is someone lacking the belief that something can't be done. Most of the time we're halfway to solution while being told that what we're attempting is impossible. If you tell me that something is profitable or really needed, I'll clear a slot on my calendar and see when I can work on it. If you tell me it's unsolvable or too difficult, I'll start working on it immediately, because I either won't believe you or because I'm desperate for something to break the boredom.

 

[SUroot]

Just.. entertain me here. What would be the difference between what goes on in this forum, and the phone ATR forums?

An init.d script that alters oom values can be valid against any rom, any devie with root and init.d support. Why have 100 duplicate threads or a missing thread if someone hasn't created it for that atr?!

 

[Sepero]

People like Earlymon have a first hand grasp of the word hacker because of field experience. No matter the definition, I think the best choice over all would be to select a name similar to other forums. We wouldn't want to alienate new comers by using terms that no other forum uses.

If creating a new forum outside of App Development, then I like "Android User Mods", but just my opinion that android and user seem a redundant.

Perhaps "System Modding"

Or "System Mods and Hacks"

vote for something

 

[SUroot]

I'd be ok with system mods and hacks... because as I said, some of it may be hacking.

 

[SUroot]

...with maybe a root only caveat