Hangouts vs. Messenger

[Brian706]

@JBentleyR I may have inadvertently misled you a little bit.

Hangouts IM is really only for instant messaging other Hangouts users. This is pretty much the case for almost all IM clients. Think of Hangouts being like iMessage for Android. You can send an instant message to other Google (Hangouts) users much like iMessage for Apple will send an IM to other apple users. You may find that you still want Facebook Messenger as it will allow you to send instant messages to all of your Facebook contacts.

Instant messaging will always require internet (WiFi) to send a message. Text messaging (SMS) will always require a cellular data connection.

If you are using Google Messenger as your default texting app, then your text messages will show up in that app and your Hangouts messages (instant messages) will show up in the Hangouts app. If you are using hangouts as your default texting app then you will receive both your text messages and Hangouts instant messages in the same app and it will display your conversation in one threaded view no matter if you are messaging someone via IM or SMS. If you are using Hangouts as our texting app, then you will probably find that having Google Messenger becomes pointless. I believe you can only send a text message from either app if they are set as the default texting app.

So if you were text messaging someone from hangouts and decided you wanted to send them a text message from Google Messenger, you would have to allow Google Messenger to become your default text messaging app to send the text. That text that you sent would only show up in your Messenger app and would not show up in your Hangouts conversation. If you switched back to Hangouts for text messaging your conversation would resume in Hangouts, but any text messages sent or received during the time that Messenger was your texting app would only show up in the messenger app and would not be viewable in Hangouts.

Text messaging (SMS) and Instant Messaging (IM) use two different protocols but produce very similar results. An SMS is essentially an IM that is sent via cellular data. An IM would require WiFi to send and receive a message and could be thought of in the opposite way as a text message sent via WiFi.

Was that confusing? Let me know if I need to clarify anything better.

 

[jj14x]

For clarity, let's talk about connections first
1. Cellular/Mobile data connection (internet connection)
2. WiFi data connection (internet connection)
3. Cellular connectivity (for phone/SMS - no data)

Hangouts can send SMS without an active internet connection. (It cannot send a hangouts message without data connection)
If you use hangouts with your Google Voice account, it can also send SMS using your Google Voice account, over an internet connection (even if you don't have cellular connection)

The Messenger app (by Google) can also send SMS without an active internet connection

 

[Brian706]

Yes, as @jj14x pointed out, if I was unclear about what I meant by "cellular data connection" I did not mean data as in LTE or 3g. I meant that you require cell service to send a text message. Simply put, if you are somewhere that you can make a phone call, you could also send a text message. If you were in a no service area, you would not be able to make a phone call or send a text message.

But if you were in a no service area but had a WiFi connection you could send an instant message.

 

[Omar Days]

Never used hangouts, but always used google messenger until I installed WhatsApp, and haven't looked back since. SMS seems so ancient now lol

 

[JBentleyR]

Complicateder and complicateder!

If I understand correctly, Hangouts would appear to be the best practical option, at least for me. It really doesn't matter to me whether my message is SMS or IM, just so long as I can send and receive a message (of either sort) even if I don't have a data connection (wifi or cellular).

One question, though, is why, when I turn on Hangouts (without either wifi or cellular data turned on) do I get the message at the bottom 'No internet connection'? Is this important, assuming I just want to send or receive a message?

Also, Omar, what do you mean by 'SMS seeming so ancient now'? Does it have any particular drawbacks compared to IM?

Anyway, I'm very grateful to you all for offering all this advice and information.

 

[Brian706]

One question, though, is why, when I turn on Hangouts (without either wifi or cellular data turned on) do I get the message at the bottom 'No internet connection'? Is this important, assuming I just want to send or receive a message?

Because Hangouts requires an internet connection to send an instant message.

Did you set Hangouts as your default app to handle text messages? If so, you should be able to send a regular text message with WiFi and data disabled, so long as you are in an area where you have cell service to make calls and send texts.

 

[JBentleyR]

Thanks Brian. That's my only concern really; that I can send and receive text messages without enabling wifi or cellular data (provided I have a cellular signal). I'm not really concerned whether my phone uses SMS or IM to send a message, but can I receive either (whichever the sender prefers to use) without enabling wifi or cellular data?

If I can both send and receive without data connection, I'm happy to use only Hangouts. All the same, the option to take a photograph which will be automatically inserted into a text message I am writing, which I presume is possible in Google Messenger, sounds useful provided I have the necessary data connection at the time.

Please bear with me if I'm not understanding things clearly.

I'd still be interested to learn more about the differences between SMS and IM, which I'm afraid I don't understand and which is why I queried Omar's statement above. Perhaps he was just being light-hearted!

 

[GuitarG20]

Thanks for that additional information, Brian.
I have now uninstalled Facebook Messenger as I don't think I'll need it. I'll make Hangouts my default because, as you say, I can keep both SMS and IM together and that sounds more convenient. I'll keep Google Messenger too, as that is able to send pictures directly from the camera (I think!) if needed, whereas I assume Hangouts cannot.

On the other hand, when I open Hangouts it announces that I do not have an internet connection. WiFi is turned off. Does that mean that I cannot send a message unless I turn on WiFi or cellular data? Is it possible to send messages in Google Messenger without WiFi or cellular data being turned on?

There's a lot more to messaging than I realised!

Hangouts does have a button to take a picture and send it, if that is what you are asking. It is the camera icon on the bar where you type in messages.

For hangouts IM messages, you will need a data connection. For hangouts SMS messages, you will not need a data connection. The reason it pops up the message is because without a data connection, you cannot send IM messages, even though SMS will work fine. They're just trying to warn you that part of the app's intended functionality will not work with data off.

Because google messenger only sends SMS, you only need a connection to send messages with that app.

 

[JBentleyR]

Hangouts does have a button to take a picture and send it, if that is what you are asking. It is the camera icon on the bar where you type in messages.

For hangouts IM messages, you will need a data connection. For hangouts SMS messages, you will not need a data connection. The reason it pops up the message is because without a data connection, you cannot send IM messages, even though SMS will work fine. They're just trying to warn you that part of the app's intended functionality will not work with data off.

Because google messenger only sends SMS, you only need a connection to send messages with that app.

Thanks Guitar.
Yes, there it is. I'm afraid I must have missed that.
It probably won't make much difference to me, but I'd still be interested to learn whether there are any advantages to IM compared to SMS. It's niggling me!

 

[jj14x]

Thanks Guitar.
Yes, there it is. I'm afraid I must have missed that.
It probably won't make much difference to me, but I'd still be interested to learn whether there are any advantages to IM compared to SMS. It's niggling me!

If all your friends use Whatsapp (or another IM service), that would be preferable - because Whatsapp (and other IM services) have the ability to tell you when the message has been delivered, and when it has been read. It also handles group conversations a whole lot better than SMS usually does. Also, whatsapp works across country boundaries without a hitch (when I send a SMS overseas, it often doesn't get delivered, and in some countries, the message encoding gets messed up and the recipient seems all garbled text). Some carriers charge extra for overseas texting too.

For me, I have friends that use Whatsapp, and some that don't. So, for those that use Whatsapp, I use Whatsapp (or skype). With others, I use SMS.

 

[jj14x]

Thanks Brian. That's my only concern really; that I can send and receive text messages without enabling wifi or cellular data (provided I have a cellular signal). I'm not really concerned whether my phone uses SMS or IM to send a message, but can I receive either (whichever the sender prefers to use) without enabling wifi or cellular data?

If I can both send and receive without data connection, I'm happy to use only Hangouts. All the same, the option to take a photograph which will be automatically inserted into a text message I am writing, which I presume is possible in Google Messenger, sounds useful provided I have the necessary data connection at the time.

As long as you have cellular connection (not necessarily data), and you make hangouts your default for SMS, you can send and receive text messages (without cellular data connection or Wifi connection). I have used that in the past, and it works just fine. And as @GuitarG20 pointed out, hangouts does have the ability to send pictures too.

Having said that, there are rumors that Google may be removing SMS functionality from hangouts in the near future - see
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/1...se-sms-and-mms-capability-in-a-future-update/
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...e-messenger-sms-pop-up-and-more-apk-download/

Personally, I use Hangouts (over data connection) to handle my Google Voice calling and texting (I use this # for signing up for promos etc), Messenger for my regular SMS (with friends), and Skype/Whatsapp for IMs/calling. Personal preference of course.

 

[JBentleyR]

Thanks JJ.

I do also have Whatsapp, although I haven't used it much but it's there as an option, especially if I need to message reliably from abroad.

Hangouts still appears to be the most appropriate for my usual needs, though, from what I can tell. However, if Google does remove SMS functionality (for whatever reason - money?) I assume it will only work with IM which will require a data connection. Should that happen, obviously I shall need a suitable messaging app that will work without data connection, which may not always be available. Can you recommend any?

I have to say that the subject of messaging is far more complicated than I once thought(!), but I'm very grateful that there are people on this forum who understand it thoroughly and are willing to offer advice.

 

[jj14x]

Thing to remember about Whatsapp is that not everybody uses it. It is (now officially) free - but requires a data plan. Good thing is that if your friends use it, you can message them because their ID is their phone#.

For some reason, Google has really struggled with hangouts. It had the potential to be the one stop shop for all messaging (similar to iMessage on iOS). For whatever reason, they made hangouts a convoluted mess. Anyway..

Google's Messenger app (, and many other texting apps like textra etc) exist - and handle SMS beautifully. It will work without a data connection, as long as you have cellular connectivity.

 

[Clementine_3]

Personally, I use Hangouts to handle my Google Voice calling and texting, Messenger for my regular SMS

I am currently doing this as well. I use HO's for GV voicemail and SMS/MMS and Textra for 'regular' SMS/MMS. It mostly works really well. I just HATE that voicemail is lumped in. I'll just keep saying that. lol. I do go back and forth between using HO's and just the regular GV app, it solves the VM issue but creates a no MMS issue. ugh. First world problems.

For some reason, Google has really struggled with hangouts. It had the potential to be the one stop shop for all messaging (similar to iMessage on iOS). For whatever reason, they made hangouts a convoluted mess.

Indeed!

 

[JBentleyR]

Thing to remember about Whatsapp is that not everybody uses it. It is (now officially) free - but requires a data plan. Good thing is that if your friends use it, you can message them because their ID is their phone#.

For some reason, Google has really struggled with hangouts. It had the potential to be the one stop shop for all messaging (similar to iMessage on iOS). For whatever reason, they made hangouts a convoluted mess. Anyway..

Google's Messenger app (, and many other texting apps like textra etc) exist - and handle SMS beautifully. It will work without a data connection, as long as you have cellular connectivity.

Ah, yes.
I'm afraid amongst all the interesting information on here I forgot that Messenger will also work without a data connection. Sorry!
Anyway, I have both so I can use either.

 

[JBentleyR]

Now you've got me interested, I asked my wife what her messaging software is on her Samsung Galaxy S6. It appears as 'Messages', but we can find no information about the source of the software.

Just an aside, she leaves her wifi and cellular data both turned on all the time, whereas I leave both of mine turned off unless needed. I have a feeling that her choice might be unwise.

 

[Clementine_3]

Just an aside, she leaves her wifi and cellular data both turned on all the time, whereas I leave both of mine turned off unless needed. I have a feeling that her choice might be unwise.

Why? Just wondering.
Are you on a very limited data plan and you come close to going over or you're...?

 

[JBentleyR]

Why? Just wondering.
Are you on a very limited data plan and you come close to going over or you're...?

No, we're both on PAYG with Three.

The reason I keep wifi turned off (unless needed) is that I'm concerned that someone might access my phone without my knowing. I realise I may be wrong here, but I have Power Toggles which allows me to turn wifi on and off with a single click.

The reason I keep cellular data turned off (again, unless needed) is that something may connect that I may not be aware of, and this might use data at my expense. Again, I can turn this on and off with a single click.

The other concern, about both, is the possibility of additional battery use for no purpose.

Go on, tell me I'm being paranoid!

 

[Clementine_3]

Nope, wouldn't tell you that at all I'm just a nosey nellie and figured exactly that but NEEDED to ask. lol

 

[JBentleyR]

So do you think my reasons are valid? If so, I'll have some ammunition to help me put my wife right!

 

[Omar Days]

Also, Omar, what do you mean by 'SMS seeming so ancient now'? Does it have any particular drawbacks compared to IM?

Anyway, I'm very grateful to you all for offering all this advice and information.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you!

So yeah, basically what JJ said! I like knowing if the recipient has a. received my message, and b. read my message on WhatsApp, and c. send pics and videos etc without paying extortionate MMS prices! With sms I can only get a delivery report that the message was received. Also, the voice call feature is very good imo. Spoke to my mate in Ecuador last night (im in the uk) and it was like i was talking to him in the same room in person! Whereas I've had terrible phone calls the traditional way and we were both in the uk!

You said you have whatsapp. Open the app and go to the contacts tab, and it'll show you which of your friends in your phonebook are using it. Give someone a quick hello, and see how good IM is

 

[Omar Days]

Only drawback is it needs to use a data connection. But WhatsApp works very well still even if you're stuck in a bad area with just a 2g data connection for example.

 

[JBentleyR]

Thanks Omar.
Yes, I have Whatsapp in addition to Hangouts and Messenger. Perhaps I can try all three in turn and see if I prefer one to the others.

 

[Omar Days]

Thanks Omar.
Yes, I have Whatsapp in addition to Hangouts and Messenger. Perhaps I can try all three in turn and see if I prefer one to the others.

I use three. WhatsApp primarily, Facebook Messenger for my mum, and good old fashioned sms for my dad with Google's Messenger!

 

[JBentleyR]

Text messaging (SMS) and Instant Messaging (IM) use two different protocols but produce very similar results. An SMS is essentially an IM that is sent via cellular data. An IM would require WiFi to send and receive a message and could be thought of in the opposite way as a text message sent via WiFi.

Sorry to perpetuate this discussion but assuming I am using Hangouts, for example, and I have both a wifi and a cellular data connection, will my message be sent as an SMS or an IM? Can I choose which?