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Support HTC Evo 3D Voltage/Heat Issues

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by spy2jgc, Jul 5, 2011.

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Does your 3vo get hot under the following charging conditions? (click choices in wall _and_ USB)

  1. YES - when using the wall charger, my phone gets hot

    33 vote(s)
    24.8%
  2. NO - when using the wall charger, my phone stays cool

    59 vote(s)
    44.4%
  3. MAYBE - when using the wall charger, mine is sometime hot, sometime not

    35 vote(s)
    26.3%
  4. YES - when using USB/computer, my phone gets hot

    15 vote(s)
    11.3%
  5. NO - when using USB/computer, my phone stays cool

    55 vote(s)
    41.4%
  6. MAYBE - when using USB/computer, mine is sometime hot, sometime not

    20 vote(s)
    15.0%
  1. spy2jgc

    spy2jgc Newbie
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    I was frustrated too... but it doesn't mean it is the voltage. The easiest way is to check what your voltage read is. If it's good, then there is some other issue going on. It's a fast way to eliminate one possible source. If you have high voltage, would you mind posting it? I don't know what the mod's think, but I think it's important to document every confirmed case of high voltage so that it is hopefully addressed. I think it's clear many people are experiencing heat issues, but is it from high voltage? As the phone drops below 4.2 Volts, it should cool down a lot compared top what it was... if the culprit is high voltage.
     

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  2. jerofld

    jerofld Fixing stuff is not easy
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    Over there <points>
    Get CurrentWidget, it has a log feature. From watching my log information, it seems that I should get a new phone.

    Here's some log info from my phone:
    (Surprisingly, AndroidForums has some strict limits on txt file size)
    View attachment currentwidget.txt

    Edit: I don't notice heat because I use a case, and I think it's insulating my hand from feeling it. I'll check again tomorrow morning after an overnight charge.

    Second edit: Oh, and current widget needs to be on a homescreen and log enabled to actually log. That's why my log stopped on the 29th. I hard reset the phone and never put the widget back up until I read this thread.
     
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  3. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    This morning, my phone connected to the wall charger showed 4358mV at 97% charge. Temp was 31.6C.

    I'm wondering if HTC is doing some funky implementation of SBC. For those who don't know, SBC (which stands for superior battery charging) was a feature of some custom kernels for the Evo 4G and other Android phones, where the battery was charged above 4200mV.

    The trick to SBC was to charge at high voltages for short bursts rather than maintaining the voltage. It would be similar to bump charging. Because the voltage is delivered in bursts, temperatures never rise to favor the plating reaction (which is what ultimately could lead to thermal runaway and an exploded battery). But it meant that in order to take advantage of SBC, you needed to leave the phone on the charger for a long time to allow sufficient time for the battery to get bump charged.

    I tried an SBC kernel for a week, saw its advantages (battery would get charged way beyond the indicator's limit, causing it to read 100% charge despite prolonged usage).

    It was a controversial technique. There was no consensus over the safety of SBC. Out on the field, people claimed it gave them great battery life with no signs of long-term capacity issues. Others claim it screwed up their battery after a few months. Didn't hear any reports of thermal runaway though.

    Back to the Evo 3D. Here, I have multiple apps/widgets reading the same voltage, temp, and charge. So they are likely pulling that data from the same source. On my phone, I have a discrepancy between voltage and temperature. If my phone is indeed charging at 4358mV, the battery should be way higher than 31.6C (I encourage everyone to stick with metric here, since we're dealing with an engineering problem :)). So I can only conclude that the battery's not charging, or the voltage reading is wrong.

    So now I've got the phone on the USB charger, and the voltage reads 4348mV at 99% charge. LED is red. And temperature is 31.0C.

    While the voltage number is worrisome, I'm reassured by the temperature of the phone. Ultimately it's the temp that's going to tell you if you have plating issues, or worse, you're about to get into a thermal runaway situation.

    I cannot conclude, without better measuring instruments, that the high voltage readings are causing the high temps for some people, since the same high voltage numbers are doing nothing to my battery's temp. However, if you are experiencing a very hot phone (anything above 40C), and you've ruled out heavy CPU usage, something could be messed up with the charging mechanism, and your phone needs to be serviced/examined/exchanged.
     
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  4. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    sweet, they fixed the app. this was one of the first apps I downloaded when I got my Evo 3D, and it would read 0mA no matter what I did. It's working now.
     
  5. jerofld

    jerofld Fixing stuff is not easy
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    Over there <points>
    Interesting, because before the update, it would tell me my charging mA but not discharge mA. It was weird, which also explains why my log shows that power depletes, but nothing is leaving the battery :p
     
  6. chuckd29

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    I've noticed a couple times that my phone was really hot in my pocket, but didn't really think much of it. Then on Sunday it was hot and an hour or two later I heard the dead battery noise. This was after being one for only a few hours. I charged it up and right after unplugging the battery dropped 50% after just a few hours. I removed a bunch of apps and widgets and rebooted several times and it seems ok today. Definitely following this thread though.
     
  7. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    If your battery is hot, and you're not charging it, your problem is likely a CPU usage issue. This thread deals with heat as it pertains to the charging process.

    Let's all be careful not to assume there's a "problem" with heat in general simply because there may be an issue with charging on some phones.
     
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  8. LBPHeretic

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    Yeah, this is definitely alarming. I am planning to order mine sometime this week.

    Hopefully this is not a hardware issue. I love my Sprint HTC Hero and it has always been good to me, so I expect the same experience from another HTC product.
     
  9. marctronixx

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  10. Thefoodman52

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    Yea, running off WiFi here at Charleston airport, just from reading this thread, my battery is at about 105 right now. What the hell.

    I think HTC decided to use the aluminum border around the screen (or whatever material it is) as the heat sink. The bottom of my screen is VERY warm. Bordering hot now. The back of the phone on top of the battery is barely noticeable... but the front of this phone really reflects the heat.
    I had a similar issue with my Droid X 2 while I had it... The thing would regularly peak at 120 and shut down. It was uncomfortable to hold. This thing is painful when its been cooking itself for awhile and you go to make a call. My ears are sensitive!

    Things to note:
    3 Bars of signal, good signal from WiFi, came in at 96%. 20 minutes in... I'm down to 63%. That is quite literally one third of my battery munched from pure heat loss, more than likely.




    This needs to get checked out. I'm not even plugged in right now. I would honestly be afraid to touch this thing with anything that could potentially charge the battery right now.

    On the plus side, it still runs fast! :rolleyes:
     
  11. kkwus74

    kkwus74 Well-Known Member
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    mine gets up to 4348 mv everytime its full from battery mointor widget,just check the battery history logs and and it will charge up to that and discharge to around 4209mv and charge back up to 4348 mv.i believe it went thru 6 cycles of this throughout the night when my phone was plugged in......hmmm....is this normal?....im getting kinda worried now.....


    p.s signal 4 bars,temp never went past 101 f throughout the night
     
  12. DonB

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    Mine has been in the charger for over an hour now and it is not that hot, showing on the widget 345 mA, 4.359V and 98% Charge
     
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  13. Jackietreehorn

    Jackietreehorn Android Enthusiast
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    I haven't noticed anything like this happening with mine (thankfully), but it's not often that I pay attention when it's just sitting on the charger. I've been using "BatteryLife" widget to keep track of my temp, and it's typically 28-32C when on charger (when paying attention).

    However, I have gotten it up to about 41 while charging in the car and using navigation. I know that's not at all the same, as it's doing something cpu intensive (as well as gps and such), but at the risk of going slightly off topic, anyone have any recommendation/baseline as to what kind of temp I should be "worried" about when doing something like this? It only made me think of this because of this portion of this post:

    So, now I'm slightly paranoid that it may be happening overnight or something (heating up that is), and am contemplating using something different to check. I'm thinking of SystemPanel, Elixir, or Battery Monitor Widget Pro. Anyone used any combo of those and want to recommend their favorite? Elixir is obviously nice because it's free, but neither of the other two is too much as to not pony up for them just because they're not free. Or really, am I ok with BatteryLife Widget by Curvefish (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.curvefish.batterylife&feature=search_result)?
     
  14. kkwus74

    kkwus74 Well-Known Member
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    i use battery widget pro ,it gives a history of what voltage and temp your phone charged at.
     
  15. strat1227

    strat1227 Well-Known Member
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    Just saw elixir showing 45
     
  16. marctronixx

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    im now using battery widget pro also. the history feature is what interested me.
     
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  17. kkwus74

    kkwus74 Well-Known Member
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    im confused now.....so is it ok that the voltage goes to 4350mv while charging but the temperature is ok around 90+ f??......
     
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  18. momoceio

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    For someone having the problem, and if you are adventurous, you might try wiring a resistor (I think an 800 ohm) into your + on the charger cable to see if it still happens. The resistor should effectively drop the charger from 5v to approx 4.2v assuming a max of 1amp.

    Edit: Oops, I meant a .8 ohm resistor :)
     
  19. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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    I wouldn't be worried too much about it. My Evo 4G heat up like crazy using Navigation as well. GPS uses the radio AND cpu heavily, so it really heats things up. I had SetCPU throttle the CPU once I went over 40C, which helped a little. Sometimes, I'd turn on the car A/C and hold the phone in front of the vent until I saw the temps come back down to the low 30s.

    Damage to the battery happens from prolonged exposure to heat. Unless you're using Navigation for hours every day for months, I wouldn't sweat it. And if you do, well, that's the cost of normal wear and tear. Expect to replace the battery more frequently than others.

    As of right now, it appears that a LOT of E3Ds show voltages in the 4300mV area, which if accurate, is too high for Li-ion charging. But if your battery temps during charging remains reasonable (under 40C), I don't see any risk of thermal runaway leading to exploding battery. I tend to think that the voltmeter is overreporting. But I can't explain why some people's phones are getting scalding hot during charging.
     
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  20. androidpirate

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    off charger, my phone sometimes gets to 105F during normal use (either just browsing the internet on wifi or turning on GPS for directions for a few mins in the car or playing games [got to 107F playing Cut the Rope]). I don't have auto sync turned on.
     
  21. kkwus74

    kkwus74 Well-Known Member
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    heres an articcle i found about overcharging li-ion batteries:

    Overcharging Lithium-ion

    Lithium-ion operates safely within the designated operating voltages; however, the battery becomes unstable if inadvertently charged to a higher than specified voltage. Prolonged charging above 4.30V forms plating of metallic lithium on the anode, while the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and produces carbon dioxide (CO2). The cell pressure rises, and if charging is allowed to continue the current interrupt device (CID) responsible for cell safety disconnects the current at 1,380kPa (200psi).
    Should the pressure rise further, a safety membrane bursts open at 3,450kPa (500psi) and the cell might eventually vent with flame. The thermal runaway moves lower when the battery is fully charged; for Li-cobalt this threshold is between 130
     
  22. novox77

    novox77 Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
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  23. kkwus74

    kkwus74 Well-Known Member
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    woopps.....sorry.....thanks for the link:).....was just trying to post the particular paragraph to get straight to the point:p.......
     
  24. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    I've been wondering about that, but you've help crystalize my thoughts.

    If the mechanism to sense voltage is inaccurate, then that would explain why phones charging above 4.3 V are not getting hot - they are not above 4.3 V in reality.

    By the same token - if the sensor mechanisms are inaccurate then it seems to stand to perfect reason that there will be cases where the actual voltage is far beyond range and cause the heating, as predicted.

    That also would offer a potential explanation as to this being inconsistent across the users reporting on this issue.
     
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  25. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    And be sure it's rated to dissipate the heat.
     
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