Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by zamardii12, Jun 20, 2010.
I bet you get a "form letter" type response...
I completely expect that. I had no intention of following up with them after the email I sent because I know that flipz is working on incorporating an FPS fix into his Fresh rom.
But...they sent me the email asking me to rate my experience. So I did.
I love my EVO but what I thought I was buying was a monster of hardware unleashed onto a phone and thats not what I have, so I am not likely to use HTC again. My father's next phone will be the Epic, period.
I don't buy it. Just as PCs have the option to choose their primary output (ex. Comp screen vs TV), I think this issue should be curable through a software compromise.
From what I have read so far, apparently the 30-cap must apply for the HDMI output to work. So why not have the cap disabled when the phone is operating normally, and then automatically implement the cap when the output is in use? It seems like a painfully simple and seemless workaround to me. Maybe too simple...?
So does the Droid Eris run at 30 fps also? Or is it 60?
Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk
flipz has integrated the FPS fix into his new version of Fresh ROM. awesome!
Over the past 3 days, someone representing HTC has called me around 9:30 am, 7:33 am and 7:29 am regarding my customer satisfaction survey. On the third time when he called, he left a callback number, and then said he was going to close the ticket on it since he's tried to contact me 3 times. Each time on my phone, the number they called me on showed up as 000-000-0000. I'm a shift worker and am getting my beauty sleep at 7:30. It's extremely effed up to only give me a contact number when they are closing the complaint on it. I was ready and willing to call back and discuss the issue but they made it impossible.
I tried calling back now but it didn't work, I imagine because its very late. In case anyone else wanted to raise some hell, enjoy...heres the # that was finally left for me: 1-866-449-8358
I understand the importance of receiving the full range of features a device can provide. Since the HTC EVO 4G employs a unique HDMI output to deliver video in HD quality to an external display, the hardware graphics driver interface on the HTC EVO 4G uses significant resources for the HDMI output and therefore displays graphics at 30 frames per second on the integrated display. This is a hardware limitation, and not software related. We have received reports of a software hack claiming to deliver grater than 30 FPS performance on the HTC EVO 4G; however, after investigating the hack, HTC has determined that the perceived frame rate increase was achieved by allowing data throughput to surpass the capability of the display interface
At the expense of image quality?
Excuse me, the floor's approaching at high speed -rotflma0!
Well if it really is a simple fix, as a lot of people are claiming, and the fact that the devs are wizards when it comes to this stuff, why can't they just write some code to have it switch on/off when HDMI plugged/unplugged? And make it an .apk . Wish I had more experience with Linux/Android, I'm so used to WinMO/Windows.
Give us a ****ing toggle option under settings that will allows us to un-cripple it at 'the expense of battery life decrease' or something. Even though unlocking the FPS won't affect battery life AT ALL, what ever.
I always thought they (HTC) said this couldn't be fixed with a firmware update. Something dealing with the HDMI output.
edit: Actually.... http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/09/htc-says-evo-4gs-30fps-cap-on-video-output-cant-be-increased/
Well I say that's bull because the guys over at XDA did increase it, sure its not the full 60 FPS but they did something.
EDIT: BTW isn't the Droid X 60 FPS?
HTC should just contract out Netarchy...
i hope they fix it soon
I guess we are going to have to wait and wait and wait. I doubt HTC thinks its a big deal. So I doubt it will get fixed.
I agree with most. Give us the option. A toggle. Its cool to have but I dont even care about the hdmi and I bet most people don't use it.
It's not that the HDMI port is limiting it, on the contrary. The HDMI port is working as-intended. THAT I can agree on with HTC. The thing I can't agree on, and where they refuse to admit that they've messed up, is that the HDMI port is still 'on' no matter what, choking EVERYTHING to 30fps. Normally, if you've got HDMI hooked up, you're gonna just play a video or stuff on the TV, and 30fps is a non-existant issue. However, when the phone needs those extra 30frames/sec in NORMAL operation, it can't display them because the HDMI port. Why doesn't the Droid X have the exact same issue as our phone, seeing as it's using the same hardware? Well, because the HDMI port isn't always 'active' and searching for an output source. It only does that once it's plugged in. What a concept! Having something turn on when you need it! Wait.... don't we do that with EVERYTHING on this phone already? The **** is the reasoning behind crippling video performance for sheer laziness?
It's so they can build more... more... uh...
...Hell, they's just lazy.
Ummm, you are so WRONG! The Droid X uses OMAP processors, not Qualcomm... Different GPU's, larger internal memory buffers, different display technology, etc...
And "Crippling" takes more work than just running the hardware as is. Crippling the device means putting a 'restrictive' code in there instead of letting it just run in a native format. Restricting hardware is usually done for three simple reasons. 1) Battery life performance increase, 2) Processor performance increase or 3) Overheating/physical damage prevention. My guess is that all three of these were concerns for HTC and the poor GPU attached to the Snapdragon - and the heat generated by the 4G radio. That's why they capped the performance of the GPU or the GPU in this thing just isn't up to snuff and they had to limit it to avoid lockups.
The fact of the matter is, 30 fps "issue" is a non issue for about 95% of the EVO users. The folks at HTC designed this around Sprint's recommendations. Youtube, SprintTV, heck, even Fancast.com all run 'just fine' and look great on their 4G network - so who cares. The few complaining about it aren't going to make HTC update the firmware to possibly make the device unstable - and publishing the information about those hacking the device to make it work 'better' will only bring the company down on them - not make them fix it.
Now, that being said, would I like to see the 60 fps for gaming? Sure, but so far it's working great on every game I've thrown at it. Would I like to see the 60 fps for movies? Sure, but so far all the VGA quality stuff that I had converted from my older devices works great on it as well.
But even more than 60 fps on the screen, I would like to watch my 720p HD movies recorded on this thing on my TV? Of course!!! Wait, it only records HD at 27 fps... Where's that 30 number we all spoke of a minute ago HTC? Sprint? Hey! Dang, another skipped frame...
Can I video chat with a PC yet? I think not... Call me later... I'll be surfing my 4G connection and chatting on Facebook while talking on my bluetooth and driving down the road... lol
I'd disagree with this statistic, especially since it sounds like you made it up.
I do agree that a lot of people don't realize that the Evo is capped at 30fps. But a lot of people I've talked to have said that the Evo does not FEEL as responsive as an iPhone or other Androids. So even though these Evo user's don't know it, what they are perceiving is the choppiness and touch-lag caused by the 30FPS cap. You notice it every time you scroll a menu. There's this feeling of an unpolished product. But for people who've never experienced a phone operating at 60FPS, they may never realize what they're missing. In that respect, I understand why you came up with that statistic.
HTC claims that the hacked kernel uncap only fools benchmark tests. This is rediculous. The difference in smoothness of UI animations and the responsiveness of the touchscreen is as different as night and day. It pains me to use my Evo without the FPS uncap anymore.
In previous posts related to this issue, I made the point that some people are FPS-challenged; that is, they can't really perceive much difference between 30FPS and 60FPS. I am convinced there are people like this, just like there are colorblind people who can't distinguish between green and red. For those of us who can make the distinction, it really is night and day.
Anyhow, I don't have high hopes of HTC ever fixing the problem for the Evo. If the framerate bothers you a lot, I recommend rooting and flashing a custom kernel that addresses the cap. My hope is that HTC knows that they kludged their HDMI support, and due to customer complaints, they don't cap the FPS on their next phone.
Yes, I am figuring that 95% of the people that got their EVO on an upgrade were Pre or Instinct users - which out of 500k phones, would mean 25k care/know about the 30fps cap.
As someone that has been on smartphones/handhelds since 95, I have to say it's a minimal lag/issue for me. Anyone who has used smartphones for any amount of time knows that when there is a lag, turn it off and turn it back on to clear the memory and shutdown background apps that didn't terminate correctly. That's the source for your lag, not the 30fps cap.
The "feel" of the device has nothing to do with the cap, but more of the lack of a good GPU, which has been reported everywhere as a 'problem' with the Snapdragon series compared to things like the OMAP's and HummingBird's.
I have had a ton of devices over the last 15 years and I can honestly say that the EVO's video performance blows away the Samsung Moment's, Hero's and many others. While it may not score as well in a benchmark, you have to account that the Hero (which someone stated here earlier to the fact that it performed better) has 1/2 the resolution of the Evo and doesn't even run 640x480 video files without straining. The EVO runs those files perfectly...
So, before we start looking at the issue as a can't they fix it thing, look at why it's there to start with... Do they have a solid performance reason for capping it or not?
zcarman - When the opportunity presents itself again, I'd encourage you to root. I'm still plodding along with Sense, so on the surface, my phone looks stock.
I've replaced the kernel - there are a number of good selections for that, btw - and as it turns out, the fps cap and the input tracking are not tied together and both have been independently and effectively addressed in the kernel I'm using at present.
The benefits of the various processors are fun to debate but the fact is that the Snapdragon is not quite the slouch that the pundits are pushing.
The stock kernel really is kinda doggy.
FWIW - here's the kernel I'm using (or, that is, I'm using an earlier version because I've been too busy to do a simple upgrade) -
[Kernel]netarchy-toastmod, Current Version: 4.1.8, Testing 4.1.9 with HAVS - xda-developers
As for overall performance, this thread might be of interest to you -
Post #42 is very interesting because it shows the OpenGL performance for the Snapdragon is quite on par with the X/OMAP3 - but below the Hummingbird in the Galaxy class.
Point is - all of these processors are already obsolete but with some under the hood finagling (because HTC/Sprint won't go there) you can get quite a bit more performance out the Evo than you might be thinking possible.
FWIW - I don't believe that they have real technical reasons to keep the kernel doggy (despite the scare letter shared above) - but they may have a profit motive to simply not invest further.
Their story keeps changing and those like myself that have taken the plunge simply haven't experienced the issues that the HTC/Sprint chicken littles claim we're in for.
I don't even mess around with overclocking - I'm not a gamer, not looking for the Nth degree of perfection - I just wanted something sustainable and snappy.
The fact that a custom kernel fixes both the animation choppiness AND the touchscreen responsiveness to the finger proves that the limitation was not the GPU. After all, I only changed the kernel, not my graphics processor. Yet the evo is performing much better. Scrolling is smooth, and the screen sticks to my finger much better. There are youtube videos showing this very clearly.
HTC thus far has not been honest about why the firmware cap is in place. In fact, they deny that a cap even exists and that the apparent 30fps is a hardware limitation. If that were true, I would see no difference in my UI animations pre- and post-custom kernel. Clearly the limitation is somewhere in the firmware, not the hardware. If HTC won't admit that, then we will never identify the reason why the cap was imposed.
The other interesting point to note is that with the FPS uncapped, I see no observable degradation in battery life. Nor do I see any increase in CPU usage. So that would eliminate capping the FPS due to potential overtaxed CPU.
The most logical explanation remains that HTC made the quick and dirty cap to support HDMI. I have no doubt that the more elegant solution, capping the FPS only when HDMI is in use (which is what the custom kernels are doing) is the proper implementation, and I hope to see HTC do this in their future phones.
I concur - my battery life is great with a replacement kernel, the processor speed times (including by percentage) are completely rational, and I am not in fear of compromising my processor lifetime or my overall handset reliability with this configuration.
a bit off topic, but does installing the kernel void your warranty?
I'm one of those people bothered by the lack of smoothness, and how the screen doesnt quite stick to my finger like the iphone does and am really curious just how much difference a new kernel will make, and the consequences of having that.