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I thought obama was supposed to be transparent?

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by IOWA, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Thread Starter

    Gonna have to reorder those priorities...

    For me

    1. Freedom of speech, religion, etc.
    2. Right to bear arms - to defend our own rights and protect ourselves.
    3. Education

    Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

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  2. Oilbama's apologies were Mr. Drama llama himself. This causes debate, but we really haven't done *anything* to the Muslims we need to apologize for. One thing I remember vividly in his apologies was his statement that women (Muslim) had a right to wear head scarves and coverings. What about the woman's right to not wear them if they so choose? Oilbama sees things from the Muslim POV and he supports it. I don't know if he is a Muslim or not, but if he isn't he sure does act in the interests of Muslims, even at the expense of America, so he might as well be.

    Bad example. After the fact there was nothing the Republicans could do, and they did complain later. Despite what Brennan said at that time, the terrorist was not cooperating in a real way. Not until weeks (IIRC) later when his parents arrived and told him to cooperate.

    Yes, they were acquitted, but it never should have happened in the first place. I've been in similar situations these men operated in for their mission, and I can empathize with what they were feeling. The emotional aspect, even for a SEAL, had to be absolute hell. To be subjected to a court martial for serving your country and carrying out a difficult and extremely dangerous mission successfully was the ultimate slap in the face. Court martialed for political correctness, and that was the only reason.

    Oilbama could have stopped this at any time and kept it quiet. All he would have had to do was tell the Joint Chiefs it was unfair to these men and it was a bad idea. Without even coming right out and explicitly saying "Just drop the charges now!" the JC's would have understood and that would have traveled down through the ranks. Or Oilbama could have made a phone call to one or two people, same understanding and that would have been the end of it. He's the president - he can pretty much do what he wants. That would have helped Oilbama to build some credibility with the Navy and perhaps the other services as well. He either bungled it or he felt the SEALs had offended that poor terrorist, and they should pay.

    Here's the thing though, criminal profiling is not the same as racial profiling. However, when the police announce they are looking for anyone other than a white man (or woman), the charge is often made that the police are racially profiling. When you are looking for horses you ignore the zebras. Muslims have been having a terrorism party since 2001 - before actually, but 2001 is an easier point of reference. Muslims have been wreaking havoc and death in the U.S., Great Britain, Spain, Indonesia, and Australia since then. If it were White Anglo Saxon Protestants I am sure the media would never mention racial profiling.

    Can you list all of the bills Palin signed into law in Alaska that make you so scared? Just the top 10 is fine.

    Lol, if that's what you think, fine.

    Those aspects aren't socialism.

    Non-taxpayers using streets, police, fire department are not taking advantage of the community in the way you are trying to make it appear, and it is not socialism. No one calls the police or fire department just for a check-up on how they are doing or for every little thing, unlike they will with *free* health care. Making something appear to be *free* will cause the service or product to be overused and the costs will go up. Thank god for those death panels! ;)

    I'm for it as a method of providing basic health care to those that qualify, but it needs improvements.

    Republicans claimed they had solutions before OilbamaCare was crammed down the throats of America, but Oilbama, Reid, and Pelosi still wouldn't listen. Maybe so they could continue to claim that Republicans had not helped.

    Yes, the liberal craving to feed their feelings above everything else is what should determine laws in this country. Or so liberals would have us believe. And my right to own and bear my firearms is in the Constitution. And yes, I have a CCW to carry.

  3. DrScrubs

    DrScrubs Well-Known Member

    I wrote, besides the ones already given to us by the Constitution. Your 1 and 2 are already promised. I agree with #3. To be more clear, when I said "besides" I meant it as "in addition to".

    From me.
  4. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Thread Starter

    Oh I completely overlooked that. Apologies. Then I would agree with your list completely

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  5. DrScrubs

    DrScrubs Well-Known Member

    Well...like I said before, until he tries to pass laws imposing religious principles on America...I mean Christians already try to pass laws based on the Bible. I am against that, and I'd be very much against it if Obama did it as well. For any religion.

    My point is, it was a political play. Not evidence of Obama being a Muslim or supporting terrorists.


    My opinion is he bungled it. And unfortunately, he seems to be bungling a lot of things...as I posted somewhere else (I think): I am stuck with Republicans who I think are just plain bad and Democrats who are just plain incompetent. Obama should have stopped it, but from his record so far, it seems like he was just waiting on public opinion and then reacting to events. i.e badly managed the health care debate until things got ugly, then just forced it through. Or the oil spill...staying distant and then after public anger got really high then suddenly now he has all the big mean talking of "knowing who's ass to kick". (Quoting Obama, not actually swearing at anyone here.)

    1. (Others can jump in on this) Socialism is basically what is community/government/taxpayers owned. Well, initially I did argue that those public services are not socialism...but someone else here made a decent argument that they are...
    2. Simply calling in and requesting service is not necessarily taking advantage of the system. I never said it was. I was just saying that those systems help everyone, not just those that pay into it. Similar to the health care bill.
    3. Actually quite a few people do abuse the fire department medical response. I worked as an EMT and I met a bunch of "frequent flyers" who used us as their personal limo service.
    4. Just for fun: City Of Tulsa Considering Fire Service Fee - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

    Awesome. Something else we agree with!

    That's what I said. My question was why didn't Republicans do anything about it?? They waited until they lost power before stood up trumpeting they had solutions. Sounds more like crappy political games to me. Where was the "caring for Americans" when they were in charge?

    Not about feelings. This is about lives. Laws need to consider human decency as well. We are humans after all.

    Yes, I am aware. See my response to Iowa.

    1. National defense: Didn't say the concept is socialistic. It is funded in a community/government/taxpayers way though. You gotta admit, we could have a military consisting of private troops that is ran for profit.
    2. Yeap, we do have public schools...and anything below college level sucks. And we do our very best to take money from public schools first. Personally, I'd rather we gut welfare, medicare, medicaid and leave public schools alone. A great education system can stop the need for welfare and such.
    3. The argument that it is not in the Constitution and therefore not a right is a poor argument. Blacks were consider 2/3 of a person in the Constitution. Women weren't allowed to vote. Blacks weren't allowed to vote. There's nothing written in the Constitution about interracial marriages, but it should be considered a right for people to marry a person of any race they want.

    Just because something wasn't in the Constitution originally doesn't mean it isn't a right and I believe it should be in the Constitution.
  6. DrScrubs

    DrScrubs Well-Known Member

    As for Palin...I am hesitant to dive into this because our posts are getting so long already. And it opens up for another whole debate where I am sure we will disagree and target specifics points. But to quickly play along, I'll list a few. Truthfully, there aren't much to list because she hasn't be in charge of something for long. She quit the last thing she did...being governor.

    As mayor of Wassila:
    1. Women had to pay for rape kits, whether as billed through the insurance and then people had to pay a deductible or out of pocket. Naturally, she denied it.
    Palin's town used to bill victims for rape kits - USATODAY.com

    As Governor:
    1. Bridge to nowhere.
    2. Earmarks
    3. The "scandal" with regards to the dismissal of the Public Safety Commissioner
    4. And then in general, the amount of spending the State of Alaska had while she was at the helm...but then again that seems to be the trend with everyone in charge...spend spend spend.
  7. ballisticn8

    ballisticn8 Android Expert

    dr scrubs used the words frequent flyers (think its spelled fliers though ;) ) when describing those that use and abuse EMS, firefighters, and hospital treatments which honestly shows his insider experience of those that use and abuse the systems. I know, I run data, cost, and financial analysis reports for a company named Banner Health, currently I do reporting for 24 hospitals and that term is known widely throughout EMS and the health care industry... god i love that term, but you can never use it around those that do it, you know, political correctness and all, if it coos and craps all over everything you still aren't allowed to call it a pigeon (figured that was a better reference for those that abuse the system than a duck, flying vermin seemed a better adjective).
  8. ballisticn8

    ballisticn8 Android Expert

    and for the record, the medicaid program is a complete wreck. it should be gutted, limited in time for those that it is given to, and the requirements should be a lot stricter for those that can qualify... right now it enables people that contribute absolutely nothing to pop out another kid, collect more money, and rape the system more from those that do contribute.

    gut medicaid completely except for those that are truly down and out and need it temporarily until they are able to get back on their feet.

    as for gutting medicare i disagree. the system was founded and promised to those that chipped into it. i dont agree with a lot of the ways medicare pays out and sure there is quite a bit of waste, its a government controlled medical care program, waste is expected. it needs to be overhauled but not gutted.

    as for obama and his response to the oil spill being quite lacking, i posted something up in the thread titled something around the line of "there is nothing funny..."

    while he was sitting back doing nothing about the oil spill or even seeing the areas affected by it he was doing interviews for TNT about the NBA playoffs. people wanted to cut bush's head off for his flying over Katrina days after it hit but this man during this disaster is being quoted saying that he likes to watch the west coast games. I think my punch line was along the lines of he hasnt done anything about the gulf oil spill yet because he had more important things to do, like watching the suns vs lakers series...
  9. DrScrubs

    DrScrubs Well-Known Member

    Cheers! Thanks for the notice. And I don't mean to argue a complete senseless argument...but yet I am still doing it anyways...(argh), but both words work. :)

    Flier - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Would you expect any less of me? I mean I do have some viewpoints that are liberal and I do still (cautiously) support Obama, but I can be honest. ;)

    Great analogy. I remembered an occasion when I saw a bunch of homeless people sitting around a park bench playing cards and such...and those were the same people calling 911 and using the system. Lol. I remember thinking for a split second...man why am I working my ass off, getting up at 5 in the morning and working 12 hour shifts when I could be doing that!? Then I remembered I actually want to be a benefit to society.

    Yeap. And also for the record, I think pretty much all the social services programs should be temporary. And should come with serious stipulations before one can benefit from it. (For whoever threw out a story about a crippled veteran, that situation does not apply here. The VA system doesn't fall in the same category as these other social service systems.) If you are gonna take from the public, the public has a right to demand something from you. In my (radical) opinion anyone getting welfare, medicaid, food stamps, housing etc should be prevented from having kids.

    As for medicare, while it is still necessary for those already on it, I don't think it is a necessity for those who don't need it yet. I mean, whatever happened to kids taking care of their parents? Why are we sticking our old folks into those horrible homes? I picked up patients from those convalescent homes. Horrible conditions that I would only wish on my worst enemies. Personally, I think a real overhaul of health care will do much more than an overhaul of just medicare. In the end, the government, i.e taxpayers, is still just paying into a crappy system.

    And to add a suggestion as to how to overhaul the health care system, here's another radical idea. Health care should be completely non-profit. Just like public education. People choose to have a car, cell phones, what clothes to wear, what kinda haircut etc. People can't choose when they get sick! It's part of being alive on this planet. Birth, old age, sickness and death. That's the cycle of life (old age and sickness may swap spots for which comes first obviously). How is it a humanly thing to exploit a person being sick for profit??

    Think about it, why find the cure for diabetes if you can just "control" it? That way you can continue to charge the person to "control" their disease. Same goes with cancer, HIV/AIDs and pretty every other disease there are. Or why bother even trying to find the cure of HIV/AIDs when mostly poor people are the ones to be sicken with it?? There's a whole lot more money in making erection pills so old rich men can screw 18 yo girls. (Sorry, major rant.)

    But, alas...I know I know, I am being too idealistic. People aren't gonna work hard to find treatment or cures if they aren't paid handsomely for it. Sadly though, I think the "for profit" mentality is exactly what is breaking the health care system.

    Yeap, I remember your comment.
  10. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    Palin is my personal choice for GOP presidential nominee in 2012. She's completely qualified to lead that party, in that:

    1. She's totally uninformed on the issues, and wants to remain that way.
    2. She's arrogant about her ignorance.
    3. Almost every time she opens her mouth, she lies.
    4. She's immoral.
    5. She's inadvertently funny.
    6. She's a first-class rabble-rouser.
    7. Her list of accomplishments for the people while in office is very, very slim.
    8. She has the "sound bite" down pat.
    9. She prefers simple-minded answers to very difficult questions and challenges.
  11. Familiar with Sharia? Muslims want their law in parts of America where they have strong numbers. They don't need Oilbama to actually make laws that favor them, he is smarter than that. Oilbama supports them and Muslims are emboldened.

    No, it was Oilbama at his core, protecting and supporting a Muslim terrorist.

    Unsure what you mean here.

    Are you familiar with the amendment process? That's why it is there.

    None of these reflect her religion, which is what I asked for. You said you thought she would push laws based on her religious beliefs. Where?

    You really do need to change your screen name to "broadstroke." Or "broadstroke brush" to be more exact. Or maybe something that contains "partisan hack." Just suggestions. :)
  12. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    Why? Because I'm hopeful the GOP nominates Palin as its presidential candidate in 2012? Don't you share my belief that she would be perfect for the job? :D
  13. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    Familiar with ultra-conservative christians who want to prevent women from obtaining abortions, and who want to blow up abortion clinics and kill abortion providers? They want their law in parts of America where they have strong numbers.

    I'm not a big fan of moral equivalencies, but, in this case, I will make an exception. At the extremes, there isn't a whole lot of difference between most religions in terms of attempts to push religious beliefs on those whose beliefs differ.

    Here's a bit of recent christian sharia:

    NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, FloridaFired for fornication: Teacher conceived child before marriage[​IMG]

    Fired for fornication: Teacher conceived child before marriage

    Posted: Jun 09, 2010 8:02 PM Wednesday, June 9, 2010 8:02 PM EST Updated: Jun 09, 2010 8:02 PM

    Wednesday, June 9, 2010 8:02 PM EST

    A former teacher claims she was fired after admitting that she conceived a child several weeks before marrying the baby's father.

    Jaretta Hamilton was fired by St. Cloud, Florida's Southland Christian Christian School after asking for maternity leave.

    She says when she made the request her boss asked if the child had been conceived before she was married. Principal Jon Ennis says Hamilton committed an immoral act and that he does not regret the decision.

    Hamilton is now suing the school.
    Her attorney points out that there were nothing in the school's personal conduct policy barring sex out of wedlock.

    The woman is lucky Principal Jon Ennis didn't force her into the school's courtyard so she could be stoned to death.

    Oh...and speaking of christian sharia, there's this from the family research council:

    The Pinking of America

    9 June, 2010 (17:08) | Human Sexuality | By: Cynthia Hill | ShareThis
    Americans should take a cold, hard look at the consequences of significant wins by openly lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender (LGBT) candidates in last night’s races. This is the fruition of that community’s methodical efforts to further homosexualize America. Their efforts, combined with this administration’s appointments of key federal positions of at least 101 LGBT aficionados, have largely been under the radar, but could predict critical damage to our rule of law. Think of it – we are electing people who ultimately see the Christian world view as the single, final barrier to their ultimate goal of acceptance and implementation of the homosexual agenda. If and when they dominate the legislatures, those who espouse Biblical principles then become the enemy and will surely be on the wrong end of law-making. We, in fact, saw this played out last night in the Rhode Island legislature where two concurrent measures, H 7044 and S 2055, passed which can criminalize dissent and infringe upon free speech and religious liberty. We need to rethink the skills needed to run a country, and to even consider that someone’s sexual predilections somehow qualifies them for the job is a joke that should have none of us laughing.

    Homosexualize America?

    How? Are gays going to be knocking on our front doors and same-sex-raping whoever opens the door?
  14. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Thread Starter

    Ok, so here's a question to all the pro-choice people. Since a mother can kill a life inside of her, and it has been deemed it is a life form by science. And mothers can do whatever they want that is inside their bodies right? That seems to be your argument, right?

    Then why don't you guys push for the legalization of assisted suicide? I mean, its the same concept, no? Its their bodies, why can't they end a life, just like with an abortion?

    Oh and you really don't want my views on homosexuality. I will piss people off with them, as they are quite radical.(but truthful, and logical no less)

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  15. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    I don't have any problems with doctors assisting terminal ill patients who are in terrible pain ending their horror.

    Your views on homosexuality probably are less interesting than your beliefs expressed here frequently that you are "truthful and logical."
    Perhaps they are, to you, but that doesn't mean they will be to others, eh?
  16. DrScrubs

    DrScrubs Well-Known Member

    What scientific article please.
  17. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Thread Starter


    And my argument (theory) on homosexuality is indeed interseting, but again, extremely radical, and no doubt I would take heat from the homosexuals and liberals on this forum, so its a can of worms id rather leave unopened publicly. However, if you really are interested, id be willing to share it one on one.

    This being said, I do not have anything against homosexuality, (unless a move is made towards me), and I even have a few friends who are bi/homosexual. The key thing with dealing with ANYTHING sexual, is knowing when not to cross the line.

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  18. DrScrubs

    DrScrubs Well-Known Member

    Mmmm...no. That definition does not affirmatively determines an embryo is a human life form and therefore making abortion be "murder". If anti-abortion advocates were to use that, then cancer cells are also "alive" and deserve to live. If your kidney mostly fails but still works somewhat, you can't have an organ transplant just yet.

    Being a "life form" of some kind does not mean the same thing as being a human life that should be protected from murder.

    As a note, I say all of this as a Christian. I do believe human life starts at conception. However, this is a religious and personal belief of mine. I cannot advocate creating a law to force my belief into actions on others. At that point, it just becomes a religious war.
  19. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    Just keep your feet in your own men's room stall... :rolleyes:
  20. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Thread Starter

    I feel it all depends on how far along the prenancy is.... once the baby develops a brain... and its functional..., well to me that's being alive, possibly sooner.

    But I digress. My anti-abortion thinking is a bit different than the rest, anyway. I feel you should take responsibility for your actions. Period. There are many methods of contraception, and there's even a morning after pill. Obviously there would be certain exceptions, but oh well my way will never be implemented.

    And @ hakr

    Take it you've never been out to clubs much :rolleyes:

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  21. 3devious

    3devious Android Expert

    I'm for it. The person does not even have to be in a deplorable position. Sure, the State can come up with all of the waivers it wants, but there really isn't definite proof that the person wanted it's life terminated but I am still OK with that. You sign that form, you're checking out. Most people wouldn't be happy with that, but if it came across my desk, I'd sign it. (The bill, not the form!)

    For abortion (though I prefer preventing the unwanted pregnancy in the first place)

    For the death penalty

    For knocking off suffering people or assisted suicide if you will

    When you are born, you're naked, scared, hungry... and then it gets worse. ;)
  22. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    No, I don't go to clubs much...or at all. Why would I want to do that? :thinking:
  23. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Thread Starter

    Seriously? Duuuuude.... its wicked fun. More to life than just being a geek ya know! (Not finding fault with geeks, I am one after all)

    But man, loooosen uuuup! Great way to unwind after a long week.

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  24. 3devious

    3devious Android Expert

  25. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    We have a nice boat for the good weather weekends and a small cabin out next to the Shenandoah River for weekends no matter the weather. And though I do not hunt, I am a member of a target shooting club. Putting small holes in targets at 25, 50 and 100 yards is a great way to unwind.

    Why we'd want to go to a noisy club, listen to lousy music and imbibe watered-down drinks...is something I cannot answer.

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