Is AT&T stealing your data?

[LMaxwell]

Like you said, you're going to have to come up with something better than that. Your phone isn't being charged data before the billing cycle starts. You said yourself it was 2MB over a two week time period. Sounds like it's just checking in periodically to keep its connection alive. When you're computer's on, how much data is it passing just to make sure it has a valid IP address?

 

[blackhemi]

I dont think its ATT thats stealing your data. I think that its your captivate thats using the data.

I really hope you did not contact BBB, Texas attorney general, and there wont be a class action lawsuit. att does require a data plan for a smart phones. There are apps on the phone that do use data. Some is to keep an IP alive, or just an app you dont even use. only 2MB, thats nothing. MMS is a data message, it is not a SMS message, its handled 100% differently, and use the data network where SMS does not.

Its not wrong for them to do it. There is a lot more going on in the background than you may think. They are not ripping people off. Do you actually know what app is drawing the data? Anything that att draws for updates does not count against you. They would probably be able to prove that easily too.

There are parts of the android OS that communicate with the data network as routine processes. Once you understand how the OS itself works, the different checks and balances it does, then, come and complain about the data usage. Its come a long ways, my old windows mobile OS back in the days used massive amounts of data(ratio used) then todays OS's.

This situation is not like going to pump gas and there is a dollar already used. Put your phone on airplane mode, and show me where they are charging you now. They would not. Turn it on, and watch you data packets go to work. Its not ATT's problem, its your problem. Its part of owning a SMART PHONE! I hope that the BBB and all them ignore this, because I know they have better issue to deal with.

As some of the others said, lets go after the city and counties now for sitting at red lights. Get em for the wasted gas, and hell, the wasted time waiting.

 

[blackhemi]

Well, despite what you think is OK. The Federal Trade Commission confirmed that it DID, in fact, violate certain laws...

And the car comparison? You'll have to do better than that. You can choose to turn a car off if you want, but cannot turn off certain apps that use data... Try again.

what law did what violate, details please.

read ALL of your fine print in your contract. And can you prove that its the att apps that are causing this data usage?

 

[RavenFox]

what law did what violate, details please.

read ALL of your fine print in your contract. And can you prove that its the att apps that are causing this data usage?

AT&Ts head office called me after they got the notification from the BBB and she just tried to play it off saying that I wasnt being charged because I hadnt gone over on my data. She just didnt see the fact that them using MY data, was wrong.

Try to keep up.

 

[Evil Joker]

Fine print? ON an over the phone upgrade? LOL... nice try

As for the messaging, this is straight from AT&T for the messaging 200 pckg
Get the word out, any way you like


200 text, picture, video, and Instant Messaging (IM) messages per month. Additional messages are 10 cents each.


Before I got a smart phone, and had no data plan, I still sent mms without a data package and it just took away from my 200. I also use the "view data usage" option to see used data on my new phone. I do not go by what shows on the phone itself because it is not accurate for billing purposes.
If the phone is setup by default to use data that you are paying for, then it is up to AT&T to notify the user before the package is charged to the user, otherwise it is being used WITHOUT my knowledge or consent. The FCC is suppose to call me back tomorrow with more info.

 

[emuneee]

If the phone is setup by default to use data that you are paying for, then it is up to AT&T to notify the user before the package is charged to the user, otherwise it is being used WITHOUT my knowledge or consent. The FCC is suppose to call me back tomorrow with more info.

This is a great point. A lot of people are moving from dumbphones to smartphones and signing up for the 200MB data plan. AT&T should tell them that smartphones differ from dumbphones in that they use data in the background. This is not common knowledge, I hate to say.

 

[3gAndroid]

Welcome to the world of Smartphones, Computers, and the Internet, Circa 2010.

Worried about random polling / data usage of your phone? your tablet? your laptop? your desktop?

Here's an inexpensive solution: http://goo.gl/pweU


Cheers...

 

[rkirkr]

This is a great point. A lot of people are moving from dumbphones to smartphones and signing up for the 200MB data plan. AT&T should tell them that smartphones differ from dumbphones in that they use data in the background. This is not common knowledge, I hate to say.

And therein lies a huge problem that I think will begin surfacing. My ex-girlfriend just got the Captivate, having never had a smartphone. She said AT&T had given her the cheaper plan and she went over it without realizing it and so they put her on the next tier plan up. I tried to warn her about further recurrences of higher data usage since she really isn't savvy with this phone's settings, nor about smartphones in general, and how things work on it and the types of things that can draw data even when she believes applications are shut down. She just shrugged it off and said it would be fine. But that's kind of a naive reaction I think. And she isn't someone who's so young and naive. We're both in our 40s and she's quite well-educated. So, it kind of makes me wonder with all that's being mentioned within this thread.

 

[blackhemi]

so many people think that everyone has to hold their had when making a big boy/girl decision. Yes, buying a phone and using it means its YOUR responsibility to read and understand your contract and how it works.

AT&Ts head office called, that office, would NEVER EVER CALL A CUSTOMER!!! What you got was a ATT customer relations department. They are required to make contact with any customer that files BBB or other specific complaints. They will feed you BS left and right. Ive ran groups like that.

Upgraded phone or whatever, you sometime or another signed a contract. It explains everything. They are covered, they got better lawyers. The really could care less if they lost you as a customer and 10 people that you complain too.

Dont get me wrong, I do think that any cell provider should inform a customer of these possible charges. But they dont, because they dont have too.

 

[Evil Joker]

@blackhemi:

The office that contacted me was
AT&T
Office of the President
2325 N. University
Lubbock, TX 79415
which is the head office for this region

 

[Ph8]

Sorry I just had to post this as it made me LOL, just having some fun no harm meant

While I see where the OP is coming from, this is why they require a data plan. As far as I know almost all andriod smartphone send receive data behind the scenes, unless you kill it with a program like juice defender. Ive never had an issue with the data as Ive had a smart phone for years now. Those that are noobs to the game may be quite startled, but this is all part of the game, why blame ATT when its the androiod OS thats not allowing you to kill the background data usage?

 

[rkirkr]

so many people think that everyone has to hold their had when making a big boy/girl decision. Yes, buying a phone and using it means its YOUR responsibility to read and understand your contract and how it works.

...

Upgraded phone or whatever, you sometime or another signed a contract. It explains everything. They are covered, they got better lawyers. The really could care less if they lost you as a customer and 10 people that you complain too.

Dont get me wrong, I do think that any cell provider should inform a customer of these possible charges. But they dont, because they dont have too.

With thinking like this, class action lawsuits would never happen. Many of the things complained about within this thread would not necessarily be part of a contract in anyway. What the OP is pointing out is a company allowing a product to incur charges without proper ways of governing said product; that would not be part of a contract.

A contract is only going to state what you're liable to pay. Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that contract is not going to show or tell that a product randomly and freely accesses data unless an end buyer learns how to put stops on all those applications being used, some of ones which are AT&T apps that start themselves automatically, unless you find information to use something against them like JuiceDefender, etc. Most information like that is only going to come through forums like these, not through the carrier or the phones manual (not exactly anyway).

Unless I'm mistaken does anyone else here know of anywhere within your contract with AT&T, or any carrier for that matter, it stating something to the effect that "We, wireless carrier, have included many apps on your smartphone. Many of these from time to time will start themselves, unbeknownst to you, and draw data. Besides our own apps, other developer's apps may do this as well. Because these apps could turn themselves on, even without your knowledge, you are always liable for any data charges you will incur. We are sorry if this is may be considered an inconvenience or troublesome to you, but..." (and to me this is my most cynical kicker) "...we do now have two different 'ceilinged' data plans to choose from, for your convenience and choice, because we no longer provide the one unlimited data plan unless you were fortunate enough to be grandfathered in to said plan."

Can you honestly say a company having followed through recently with such change in data plans is not going to have this come back to them when more and more "regular" people (not being tech savvy at all or not familiar or maybe not have the time to read endless forums like these) begin buying phones such as the Captivate and start thinking "Hey, maybe there's something wrong here."

As far as saying something like "they got better lawyers", if a class action suit happened to be filed and it was a huge group I don't know that your statement is going to necessarily be true, as really good lawyers will follow that large percentage (large suing group) of money that they charge. And we all know there are firms that specialize in suits of the type that the OP is suggesting. He may have to go through all the legwork and phonecalls with local and federal agencies but this is not out of the realm of a suit.

 

[blackhemi]

that would be a regional office, not a head office. Most likely, a call center. HQ is in Dallas.

Im glad you can spell and spot my failed grammar on a board.

Again, Im not saying what they do is right, what Im sayin is its stupid to bring it to the BBB and such. Its FUNNIER, yeah, i know, its not a word, but it will bug you, that you think they actually give a rats ass about your 4MB complaint. Crap like this is what drives up prices, plugs resources such as BBB, and if it makes it to the court systems, its just a waste of money. Its in the contract, read it. Also, just use a bit of common sense. If you only knew the things these reps will tell a customer such as yourself to make you feel powerful and in charge. Step out of the box, look a the big picture, and you should realize that what you are trying to start with att is peanuts!

 

[blackhemi]

With thinking like this, class action lawsuits would never happen. Many of the things complained about within this thread would not necessarily be part of a contract in anyway. What the OP is pointing out is a company allowing a product to incur charges without proper ways of governing said product; that would not be part of a contract.

A contract is only going to state what you're liable to pay. Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that contract is not going to show or tell that a product randomly and freely accesses data unless an end buyer learns how to put stops on all those applications being used, some of ones which are AT&T apps that start themselves automatically, unless you find information to use something against them like JuiceDefender, etc. Most information like that is only going to come through forums like these, not through the carrier or the phones manual (not exactly anyway).

Unless I'm mistaken does anyone else here know of anywhere within your contract with AT&T, or any carrier for that matter, it stating something to the effect that "We, wireless carrier, have included many apps on your smartphone. Many of these from time to time will start themselves, unbeknownst to you, and draw data. Besides our own apps, other developer's apps may do this as well. Because these apps could turn themselves on, even without your knowledge, you are always liable for any data charges you will incur. We are sorry if this is may be considered an inconvenience or troublesome to you, but..." (and to me this is my most cynical kicker) "...we do now have two different 'ceilinged' data plans to choose from, for your convenience and choice, because we no longer provide the one unlimited data plan unless you were fortunate enough to be grandfathered in to said plan."

Can you honestly say a company having followed through recently with such change in data plans is not going to have this come back to them when more and more "regular" people (not being tech savvy at all or not familiar or maybe not have the time to read endless forums like these) begin buying phones such as the Captivate and start thinking "Hey, maybe there's something wrong here."

As far as saying something like "they got better lawyers", if a class action suit happened to be filed and it was a huge group I don't know that your statement is going to necessarily be true, as really good lawyers will follow that large percentage (large suing group) of money that they charge. And we all know there are firms that specialize in suits of the type that the OP is suggesting. He may have to go through all the legwork and phonecalls with local and federal agencies but this is not out of the realm of a suit.

It would be the terms of service. There are many parts that every customer must agree to.

This would never be a class action suit.

I agree, its bad practice for att to not inform this to customers, but at the same time, if they had to disclose verbally, all the details that can come back and upset a customer, be prepared to listen to a rep talk for hours.

What it boils down to is being an informed buyer. I have, like most people have, had bought something and realized shortly later that they felt ripped off or cheated. If there should be any class action suits, it should be against car salesmen. They are the ones that steal from consumers.

In this case, might as well go after Samsung, for running an android OS, and then go after Google, for developing an OS that uses data without permission.

 

[DroidThunder]

So I'm going to chime in on this one I'm about 3 days from my current billing cycle to end and I have only used 80.5 mb out of 200mb so far, I pretty much use my phone for Emails & to check out 4 to 5 web site's a month and that's a small amount for me,So if Att is stealing data I just do not see it at all happening in my opinion its just how a normal smart phone works

 

[Evil Joker]

With thinking like this, class action lawsuits would never happen. Many of the things complained about within this thread would not necessarily be part of a contract in anyway. What the OP is pointing out is a company allowing a product to incur charges without proper ways of governing said product; that would not be part of a contract.

A contract is only going to state what you're liable to pay. Unless I'm sorely mistaken, that contract is not going to show or tell that a product randomly and freely accesses data unless an end buyer learns how to put stops on all those applications being used, some of ones which are AT&T apps that start themselves automatically, unless you find information to use something against them like JuiceDefender, etc. Most information like that is only going to come through forums like these, not through the carrier or the phones manual (not exactly anyway).

Unless I'm mistaken does anyone else here know of anywhere within your contract with AT&T, or any carrier for that matter, it stating something to the effect that "We, wireless carrier, have included many apps on your smartphone. Many of these from time to time will start themselves, unbeknownst to you, and draw data. Besides our own apps, other developer's apps may do this as well. Because these apps could turn themselves on, even without your knowledge, you are always liable for any data charges you will incur. We are sorry if this is may be considered an inconvenience or troublesome to you, but..." (and to me this is my most cynical kicker) "...we do now have two different 'ceilinged' data plans to choose from, for your convenience and choice, because we no longer provide the one unlimited data plan unless you were fortunate enough to be grandfathered in to said plan."

Can you honestly say a company having followed through recently with such change in data plans is not going to have this come back to them when more and more "regular" people (not being tech savvy at all or not familiar or maybe not have the time to read endless forums like these) begin buying phones such as the Captivate and start thinking "Hey, maybe there's something wrong here."

As far as saying something like "they got better lawyers", if a class action suit happened to be filed and it was a huge group I don't know that your statement is going to necessarily be true, as really good lawyers will follow that large percentage (large suing group) of money that they charge. And we all know there are firms that specialize in suits of the type that the OP is suggesting. He may have to go through all the legwork and phonecalls with local and federal agencies but this is not out of the realm of a suit.

Good points... And keep in mind that the one giving praise to AT&T has his phone hacked to keep from getting screwed.... LMAO!!!!!

 

[jeremye77]

Doesen't the fact that a data plan is REQUIRED with an Android phone kind of lead one to infer that data will be used? Regardless I do believe one of those booklets also leaves you completely responsible for data usage. AT&T certainly has no ability to suck data from your phone without you first establishing a connection to the network. That then leads to simple network overhead. The phone checks in with the data network with a packet similar to "Hey i'm still here" then the network responds with "Awesome keep your ip address and hang in there fella". This happens over and over and over and over throughout the day and night...as long as you are on the 3G network. It is possible that accounts for some of the usage though I am not sure if that counts as part of the package or not. It could be the system itself pinging one thing or another. AT&T has informed you of these possibilities in that booklet of small print. Airplane mode with WiFi on is your best bet

You wouldn't want someone calling you after all. That might use your minutes.

 

[rkirkr]

It would be the terms of service. There are many parts that every customer must agree to.

This would never be a class action suit.

I agree, its bad practice for att to not inform this to customers, but at the same time, if they had to disclose verbally, all the details that can come back and upset a customer, be prepared to listen to a rep talk for hours.

What it boils down to is being an informed buyer. I have, like most people have, had bought something and realized shortly later that they felt ripped off or cheated. If there should be any class action suits, it should be against car salesmen. They are the ones that steal from consumers.

In this case, might as well go after Samsung, for running an android OS, and then go after Google, for developing an OS that uses data without permission.

Besides the rest of this reply to my quote, I'm somewhat confused by the part in red since you were quoting me. I wasn't speaking about anything verbally; I was speaking about a written contract. Maybe you're referring to the OP but again it seemed you were replying to me.

As far as other companies, yeah maybe. It gets stupid, of course. Look at the woman who won the suit so many years ago from McDonalds about not being warned that her coffee would be hot. She won and now thanks to her we have those warnings on McDonalds coffee cups. That still astounds me when I think about that one actually winning. Is that not common sense and laughable if you think about someone actually arguing that beforehand?

This at least seems to have some merit. Because even though you point out these other companies, I'm curious what you think, as I previously stated about how AT&T no longer provides an unlimited data plan yet they put stock apps, which will use data even when I've closed them, on the phone with no way of removing them unless you Root the phone - which I've done - but more for the sideloading of apps since AT&T decided to restrict that. One of those apps I used to constantly close, mainly to save battery, was the Core Music Player. No matter how much I closed that it turned itself back on and would also pull data. And the funny thing with that, I never turned it on nor used it. I use the Cube music player from the Market.

Informed yes, but you seem to imply that all that I mentioned previously is indeed and without a doubt within AT&Ts contract. I think there's a basis for argument there since the bottom line is AT&T is providing the "contract" that could potentially be in question and not Samsung nor Google.

 

[wampro]

did any of you that are complaining read your wireless service agreement when you signed it? (That's your contract) Certain smartphones including the Iphone, Blackberrys and Android phones are data dependant. That means they need date to do the things that they do. You are required to have a data plan on your account if you want a smartphone. By placing your sim card into your phone and turning it on you are authorizing your phone to use data. At&t is not stealing your data, they are charging you to have your smartphone on THEIR network. You make comments like well my phone was using data when I didn't authorize it, did you activate the At&t address book? That uses data. Did you sign up for the Android Market? That uses data. Did you read the terms and conditions of the Android market? How do you think the phone knows when there are updates available? DATA! Google maps, DATA! Weather updates. DATA! Email, DATA! Are you using the Android keyboard? DATA! If your hitting the microphone and speaking into the phone instead of typing, guess what? YOU'RE USING DATA! The Damn operating system is made by Google, THIS JUST IN: GOOGLE=INTERNET=DATA!

 

[rkirkr]

Doesen't the fact that a data plan is REQUIRED with an Android phone kind of lead one to infer that data will be used? Regardless I do believe one of those booklets also leaves you completely responsible for data usage...

Exactly my point on AT&T taking away the unlimited plan, providing only "ceilinged" plans, and then installing non-removable apps (again, unless you decide to Root) which will pull data even after said apps have been shut down - because some will restart themselves.

As far as simply going into airplane mode, Wi-Fi may not always be available nor an option.

 

[rkirkr]

@wampro - my whole discussion has been about contract and the lack thereof in language. Take a look again a little more closely at my points. And btw, I'm just playing devil's advocate but honestly the OP has a very legitimate point.

 

[wampro]

And therein lies a huge problem that I think will begin surfacing. My ex-girlfriend just got the Captivate, having never had a smartphone. She said AT&T had given her the cheaper plan and she went over it without realizing it and so they put her on the next tier plan up. I tried to warn her about further recurrences of higher data usage since she really isn't savvy with this phone's settings, nor about smartphones in general, and how things work on it and the types of things that can draw data even when she believes applications are shut down. She just shrugged it off and said it would be fine. But that's kind of a naive reaction I think. And she isn't someone who's so young and naive. We're both in our 40s and she's quite well-educated. So, it kind of makes me wonder with all that's being mentioned within this thread.

The only problem with this is that your girlfriend received a text message from at&t when she was at 65% of her threshold and then again at 90% of her threshold and again when she reached 100%. She knew or should have known long before she reached 200mb that she was using more than she purchased.

 

[rkirkr]

The only problem with this is that your girlfriend received a text message from at&t when she was at 65% of her threshold and then again at 90% of her threshold and again when she reached 100%. She knew or should have known long before she reached 200mb that she was using more than she purchased.

Again, read more closely - ex-girlfriend. And now you're just sounding like an AT&T mole. How do you know what she received or didn't receive? Maybe she was supposed to. But she told me when she got her first phone bill after upgrading she saw those amounts. She then went to the AT&T store and they gave her the next plan up. She wasn't even complaining about it to me really. She said had she known beforehand she would've switched up.

But again, you're kind of missing the whole point about the contract issue.

 

[wampro]

This is a great point. A lot of people are moving from dumbphones to smartphones and signing up for the 200MB data plan. AT&T should tell them that smartphones differ from dumbphones in that they use data in the background. This is not common knowledge, I hate to say.

No it's not a great point, the at&t contract states the phones require data, the google terms of service says you are responsible for data, the fact that you are connecting your phone to the mobile data network implies that you are consenting to your phone using the mobile data network. Furthermore, the price tags in the stores state that a data plan is required. The quick start guide that comes in the box states "Internet connection required for email, web browsing, acessing online social networkds and other internet services. Data charges apply." It goes on to state "Some features rely on internet services which may require a fee."

 

[wampro]

Again, read more closely - ex-girlfriend. And now you're just sounding like an AT&T mole. How do you know what she received or didn't receive? Maybe she was supposed to. But she told me when she got her first phone bill after upgrading she saw those amounts. She then went to the AT&T store and they gave her the next plan up. She wasn't even complaining about it to me really. She said had she known beforehand she would've switched up.

But again, you're kind of missing the whole point about the contract issue.

The contract states very clearly the Iphone and certain other devices require data plans. That requirement statement implies the device's data usage. I'm not quite sure what else one would need to understand that smartphones use data. As far as your data ceilings, with out using the phone in violation of your wireless agreement (tethering without a tethering package) it is virtually impossible to exceed 2gb's of data. That being understood, at&t implemented the new data plans to clear up the network from people who use 3g when wifi is available. After everything being said, it still boils down to personal responsibility, but then everything comes down to that doesn't it?