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Root Is it possible to backup the ROM on unrooted phone?

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by waynestir, May 28, 2011.

  1. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    I need a stock image of nTelos desire.

    would it be possible to install custom recovery using hboot pb99img file and create a nandroid backup of a nonroot htc desire on the nTelos network? I have family members who have the same phone/network and they are completely scared I will screw up their phone.

    I know I can't get S-on to date after using unRevoked3 but I would like the stock 2.1 update image so I can update to froyo. I prefer the stock rom over all I have tried and no longer have a reason to be rooted. It doesn't look as tho there will be a RUU so I need alt methods.

    Could it be done using?
    universal androot (without voiding warranty by being able to undo root)
    and yaffsexpert to create system backup that I can compile and flash on my phone

    Any thoughts please
     

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  2. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    You need custom recovery to backup a full Rom which you can only get if you're rooted
     
  3. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    so would using the universal androot which I have allow me to create yaffs image to flash using PB99IMG file in hboot or no?

    I have searched for the last three weeks and cannot find the answers
     
  4. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    Only temp root that works is visionary+ but its lost at reboot.

    PB99img is.more than just a Rom. You're not going to be able to manually recreate that
     
  5. Abdur

    Abdur Android Enthusiast
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    Try looking here. Shipped ROMs
    I have a Telus Desire as well, and was wondering if I root my phone and need to return it, whether I can restore it to factory settings.
     
  6. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    I have several times used pb99img to flash all or part of system so I think I can
     
  7. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    I've looked. there are no nTelos roms or Telus roms either. so if you do root you will get into my situation for the time being. Unless I can sort out a method to allow a true stock backup first.
     
  8. Abdur

    Abdur Android Enthusiast
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    RUU_Bravo_Froyo_TELUS_WWE_2.25.661.2_Radio_32.49.00.32U_5.11.05.27_release_151557_signed.exe ?
    That doesnt work?
     
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  9. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    Well I'm happy to be proved wrong. Let me know how you get on creating a PB99img from your stock unrooted Rom.

    However for what its worth I don't think you can
     
  10. Rastaman-FB

    Rastaman-FB Android Expert
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    thats quite interesting actually

    i dont think anyone has really tried it, i certainly dont think has mentioned it

    your issue is with signing the file as pb99img needs to be signed
     
  11. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    Yes but how is he going to create an unrooted system.img to put in it?

    Best I can offer is get a rooted one, delete superuser then nandroid. Then you have a system.img without superuser. However, simply adding superuser from the market will give root access again I would expect.
     
  12. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    I appreciate the effort.. however that isn't the same network or model type. That is for GSM phone and nTelos is CDMA phones. I need BravoC ruu.
     
  13. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    ok guys here is what I want to try...

    I want to temp root my cousins phone as it is the same phone and network.
    make a backup using yaffsexpert which can only be done using root access.
    then flash that backup onto my phone.

    I am unwilling to do this however if there will be any trace that his phone has ever had root. for example superuser.apk file that can only be deleted with root access being left on system after temp root. etc.

    I can then flash it onto my system using a number of methods that I have in fact tried and succeeded with. I have used PB99IMG file to flash all or part of system using the text file found in alltel or USCC ruu rom.zip file.
    I have replaced the ruu rom.zip file with custom rom.zip file and flashed phone that way.

    I've used yaffsexpert to backup my system to .img file then extract in yaffs and delete files then repack into img file and flashed to phone using PB99IMG.

    these are all fine and good given I can get the system/boot/recovery I need off of non root phone. I don't care if my phone is still root after. I just want the elusive nTelos stock rom image. This is important to me and as I have found in my research; numerous others as well.

    nTelos and Telus are two different companies/networks in separate areas of the world.

    nTelos does have a ruu for the HTC Hero and I have toyed with flashing parts of that system onto my phone and I can get to boot and go initial setup of phone but crashes when the sense ui needs to load and it stops working. I know that is dangerous but if there is one thing I have learned after working on computers for the past twenty years is that everything no matter how severe can be undone. You just have to know how.
     
  14. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    I am an IT systems engineer and your statement in the world of computing is true.

    However close these phones are to computers, you have to understand that they are not the same. These devices can be bricked - in the true sense of the word (unrecoverable) when you mess up the radio NVRAM, so do make sure you leave that section well alone.

    Visionary+ gives temp root- superuser lost at reboot. If yaffsexpert can extract the system image whilst android is running, it could work, but that's you're only chance.

    You're entering into uncharted territory so no one can help you. You'll just.have to try
     
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  15. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    ok then.. I do have one question to resolve.

    Can you explain what visionary+ will do?

    Like I said I don't want to do anything to void warranty on other phone... it isn't mine to do so.

    I will make all info/findings availible as well the system/boot/rec files for download for anyone who need them.
     
  16. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    If I'm not mistaken your phone should be GSM; I vaguely remember reading that the hboot can be replaced on the GSM Desire to turn security back on.

    you could however when using the unrevoked method click on file and uncheck the disable security option prior to connecting phone. this will give you root and allow you to use ruu file and whipe the slate clean so warranty shouldn't be an issue

    one more issue.. If you already have the update to froyo; I don't believe you can root via unrevoked3. There may be other methods though.
     
  17. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    Visionary+ if used for temp root only
    (Perm root doesn't work on desire) installs superuser.apk as a normal app. It doesn't alter system in any way. Everything this created in a RAM disk (you will therefore need to endure to force close ram intensive apps beforehand).

    It's all wiped at reboot. No warranty voided, no trace what so ever.

    The only thing is I am genuinely uncertain if this is enough for your needs...

    It definitely works for running root apps such as titanium or set CPU
     
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  18. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    I had that as a concern as well. Nothing left to do but try it and see if I can get enough root access to backup device using yaffsexpert. Thanks again and I will post results when I get a chance to try.
     
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  19. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    Yes, please do. As said, this is uncharted territory.

    If this does work, we may be able to employ your method to orange UK users too.
     
  20. Rastaman-FB

    Rastaman-FB Android Expert
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    thats what i was thinking
    im more inclined on how he will sign the pb99img.zip as its not a normal signed file afaik. its looking for htc proprietary signiture for the bootloader
     
  21. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    Can you add to an existing zip using winrar? Without extract can the signature be retained?
     
  22. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    the way I have been able to do it so far and should remain constant is to use the text file that is for my model phone that comes in the rom.zip file that is copied to tmp folder during the process of running RUU.

    I simply use winrar and create a PB99IMG.zip file with the image files I wish to flash and the text file I collected and load to hboot. It will pars the file and ask if I wish to install.. vol up for yes and it will install.

    This may work fine for me due to the fact that I have S-Off. no Idea if this would work at all on Unrooted phone. I can however try if I can get my cousin to let me. I have a pb99img containing the cwm recovery.

    If I get a chance I will post results.
     
  23. Rastaman-FB

    Rastaman-FB Android Expert
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    s-off removes signature checking so thats why it works

    (@ SURoot, modifying a zip files strips the signature, thats why wen you do it to custom roms you have to toggle off signature verification)

    also ive just checked how this tool works. it requires busybox
    afaik in order to get system level busybox installed you will need to get access to system in RW (something that requires s-off). or a custom rom with it already in system upon flash.

    Its an interesting concept though as it does claim to be able to flash recovery and boot from within the os
     
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  24. waynestir

    waynestir Member
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    so having temp root wont do I guess. I only really need read access on the stock phone. I don't need to write to anything but the sd card to create the img files. My phone already has all the access to RW.
     
  25. Rastaman-FB

    Rastaman-FB Android Expert
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    i know but you need RW access to pushing busybox to system

    it would work if this tool had its own intergrated version of busybox like titanium backup does
     
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