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Isnt Rooting your phone against Verizon's Policy?

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by swc2001, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. swc2001

    swc2001 Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    So why are we allowed to talk about Rooting at all?

    Isnt this against Verizons's Policy. It has been said that if you root and they find it they have the option to kick you off and charge you and early termination fee.

    So I just find it interesting we can talk about "breaking this rule" but not other rules that "violate Verizon's policy".

    I think that ANYTHING you do with your device is your business.

    I think people might want to read this:
    Verizon blocks unlicensed tethering, insists it can charge extra

    Verizon is actually Breaking Federal Regulations by blocking the app that shall not be named. :thinking:

    Hope I didnt offend anyone but this kind of stuff makes me pretty mad. :mad:
     


    lykofos likes this.

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  2. I agree as long as it is "on" your device and not "with" your device. This is not "on" your device.

    If the legal dudes protecting this forum want to interpret "tethering" as "USB or wireless tethering" that is their call. The last interpretation I saw said "discussion of USB tethering is OK and discussion of wireless tethering is prohibited".

    ... Thom
     
  3. trophynuts

    trophynuts Extreme Android User

    rooting does not violate Verizon's theft of service (key word here being SERVICE). Because Rooting your phone (remember all rooting technically does is give you SU access to your phone) in of itself does not take anything for nothing. Also Congress has said its perfectly legal to root your phone.

    Rooting your Android Phone No Longer a Crime!AndroidGuys



    with doing unapproved tethering you are breaking Verizon's Theft of Service.
     
  4. Slug

    Slug Check six!
    VIP Member

    If you can find anything in writing from Verizon that states that you can only use a rooted handset on certain plans, similar to the TOS regarding tethering here, then please bring it to the attention of the site owner or admin.

    I agree, but in this case you're also doing something with Verizon's service that you agreed not to do by accepting their TOS.

    We can argue this to and fro until the cows come home, but the bottom line is that the owner of Android Forums has stated that tethering against carriers' TOS is not allowed, and what he does with his site is his business.... literally.
     
    Frisco and EarlyMon like this.
  5. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
    VIP Member

    Right on, Slug. :)

    I wanted to chime in to also point out that in the US, it was once common to have a non-rooting clause in carrier TOS statements. However - whenever challenged in court those have been found to be part of an unconscionable contract and therefore invalid.

    Rooting can restrict your warranty, that's the law in the US.

    Unconscionability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  6. lykofos

    lykofos Member

    From a logical perspective, I do not see wireless tethering as theft of service. However, Verizon can write their policies to bend reality / make more money as they choose. And we users can continue to break their ridiculous rules to obtain our fair use of what we already paid for as we choose.

    I pay $30 /mo for data as part of my plan. That data is mine, I paid for it. So, I'm entitled to use the data I paid for in full, in whichever manner I choose. Whether I use my 4GB via the bionic or via tethering should not matter b/c I paid for that 4GB of data.

    Verizon charging extra for something you already paid for is akin to: A company selling a customer a spoon. The customer pays for the spoon and now owns it, however the company tells you that you are only allowed to use the spoon for soup. If you want to use the spoon, you own / paid for already, for eating anything other than soup, you have to pay an extra fee. It's absolutely ridiculous, and illustrates the depth of Verizon's greed. Viva la wifi tethering app!
     
    swc2001 likes this.
  7. swc2001

    swc2001 Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Yes I can deffinately see the point of his site his rules. I get that. It just does not seem consistent to me. I will adhere to rules I am not a rule breaker. I just wanted clarification on what seems to be a big contradiction imo. Again If thats what he wants for his site. Yeah he can do that. I gotta wonder why though.

    Well I may not be on Android Forums as much anymore seeing as we seem to be censored here on such topics. I will go be a part of and contribute to a more open and free community.

    Have a blessed day
    Swc2001
     
  8. swc2001

    swc2001 Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Good points lykofos

    As I pointed out earlier. Verizon is breaking Federal Law by prohibiting this. So the way I see it..... Game on!!!
     
  9. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
    VIP Member

    The points are well-made and understood.

    We had a public debate on this in many phone forums and then we took that to the suggestion box - the debate, including points here today, were part of that discussion that lasted literally for months.

    Sorry you feel this is censoring, but it comes down to this - the carrier charges for the service, and providing support to continue to discuss ways to circumvent charges was just too dishonest from our site owner's perspective.

    We also disallow discussions on how to get paid apps for free or how to defraud phone insurance for financial gain.

    We're not censoring so much as trying to be consistent - honesty is the best policy.

    Hope that clarifies our position here.
     
    Slug and WA_Bob like this.
  10. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
    VIP Member

    If you're confident that's true then it's in your best interest to contact a federal prosecutor or other attorney.
     
  11. swc2001

    swc2001 Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    One quick note comparing this to not paying for paid Apps is comparing apples and oranges. I have paid for my Data. I should be able to use what I pay for..... without having to pay for it again. Thats Ridiculous.

    Now lets use that Apps unpaid convo for a moment. I pay for an app that is a word processor. Well then the maker of the app sees that many people are using the app to write Novels like Harry Potter and are making money. Well then the app maker comes along and says oh yeah NOW were going to charge you extra for writing novels with our app. So Cough it up.

    Would that be right? Of course not you already paid for the app. Its DOUBLE DIPPING.

    And we all know Double Dipping is bad.
    Ok so heres the real Brass Tax I am probably not going to change your minds or the owners minds. So there is really no point in going forward with this topic anymore.

    However. Everyone has been very respectful to me and you have listened. I want to give you a big thank you for that.

    I guess were just going to have to agree to disagree and move on.

    Thank you so much for your time and professional courtesy. I hope that I have shown you the same.

    Best Regards
    Swc2001
     
    EarlyMon likes this.
  12. Frisco

    Frisco =Luceat Lux Vestra=

    It does seem like censoring, doesn't it. It's just that this forum site is not pretending to be a democracy. When I first came here about two years ago I had mixed feelings about some of what I was seeing with active moderation and people being banned who were not spammers but were fighting, instigating, etc, all stuff that is allowed in the forums around that seem more of a democracy but actually are about 75% fight zones and 25% info zones.

    AF is constantly striving to be 100% info zone. Can't do that in an online true democracy with total free speech because of the noise factor. People are driven off for more peaceful digs, which brings me to why I stayed here: regulated by Moderators, less true freedom if you want to fight and/or discuss illegal and/or anti-ToS stuff, but lots and lots of real info without the noise drowning it out thanks to those Mods. ;)
     
    OutOfPhase, johnlgalt and EarlyMon like this.
  13. YankeeDudeL

    YankeeDudeL Android Expert


    I truly do agree with you and your points, but I do feel someone should play devil's advocate here. The data you pay for is intended for the device you purchase from them. So you're paying for data on your Bionic, but not the data for the laptop or tablet you're tethering to. That's the type of wording that'll protect their cause.

    I like to compare it to the internet service we have at home (especially as it's not all that different). We pay for internet, and then we use a router to give WiFi to all of our many any varied enabled devices. We pay one flat fee for this. This is why I don't believe rooting can be considered illegal and I'm assuming why the judicial system agrees. It's the company's policy to do charge for what they wish, but it's our right to do what we see fit with our devices that we own and pay for.

    Thing is, I'd be be worried to bring the above point up to the powers that be. We might start getting charged by internet providers WiFi fees. lol Truth is, that'll never happen. There's too much cheap advertising, capitalism needs us to have the internet readily available.
     
    EarlyMon likes this.
  14. johnlgalt

    johnlgalt Antidisestablishmentarian

    Actually, read the TOS and EULAs of a lot of current software and you'll see the same sort of thing.

    1) You're only allowed to use the software in the manner prescribed on a single computer - any use of the software beyond that single computer shall constitute a violation of this agreement and you may be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law where applicable.

    2) The data you're buying from VZW is for a phone - not for whatever. Most sites were offering mobile-only content to devices that are mobile, so that the data flow would be much lower than a traditional site with lots of flash animation, etc. as opposed to people connecting laptops, desktops, etc. to their mobile phone. The average app, for example, for a mobile phone is probably 1-2 MB (discounting games) whereas the average sized app for a Windows computer is probably 10 times that. If you do the math, then it makes sense that they try to restrict this.

    3) Mobile data is not water - it is not a commodity you can hog and use when and where you want, storing it in plastic jugs in the fridge. You get it on a per use basis.

    This site is for information purposes first and foremost. The censorship as you (and I) see it is a decision that the powers that be did not come to lightly - but, in the end, in order to keeps the business legit, was come to all the same.

    As for the folks here being respectful, you have to take a little credit yourself - you never got belligerent in your rant(s) - that helped a lot.

    A lot of companies tell their customers that they can purchase the home networking service from them at a premium to have it set up right - it's rare to hear a CSR tell you you can do it yourself for free....

    And your analogy for using WiFi to distribute broadband throughout a dwelling does not match up with justifying rooting a device - did you mean to tie it to tethering instead of rooting? :p
     
    YankeeDudeL and EarlyMon like this.
  15. welbinator

    welbinator Android Enthusiast

    So you're being consistant in your censoring.
     
  16. amazinz5

    amazinz5 Well-Known Member

    Are you complaining about the way the site is run? If there's one thing they're not doing it's making you be a part of the site. There are plenty of sites where you can bicker childishly without being "censored." The people that come here want information.
     
    logicalsteve and johnlgalt like this.
  17. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
    VIP Member

    If that's the word you prefer, yes.

    When you joined the site, you agreed to the site rules.

    Any posts not in compliance with rules and dictates of the site owner are acted upon - by gentle explanation, post editing, post deletion and in extreme cases, removal of posting privileges on the site.

    Every site with moderators acts this way - the sites differ in their rules and their community goals.

    As I like to look at the positive side of things, I'm going to take your idea as a sincere compliment and say thanks! :)

    We on Mod and Guide staff meet throughout the day on issues like this one and we strive for cool-headed moderation and guidance.

    Consistency of our responses for all members is really important to us.

    Our goal is to maintain a fun and friendly atmosphere for Android users helping other users.

    We are site members first, just like you, and volunteer staff second doing a temporary job. We don't set policy, that's not our job, and we don't think we're perfect or anointed - so we do try to make policies clear, without anything personal, and soothe out the rough edges that crop up along the way.

    Thanks again! :)
     
    YankeeDudeL and johnlgalt like this.
  18. YankeeDudeL

    YankeeDudeL Android Expert

    I kinda combined two points and I'm not sure I really made either one. But I don't know how to clearly state either one, so I'm just gonna hope someone gets it. lol

    As for the "censoring", and I'm speaking as a community member here, this is THE site to go to for engaging discussion about and getting the most out of our beloved Android phones. There's two reasons for this: 1) the great community who truly want to participate and help each other and 2) the level of professionalism, especially in moderation, in which this site is run.

    Here, respect is currency. Respect for the other members, no matter if this is their first smartphone or if they're the most experienced developer. Respect for those who put their time into a project and who wish to distribute it how they see fit. Respect for the law because piracy is a statutory copyright infringement, regardless of whether or not we agree with it. And if it wasn't adhered to this site would either be shutdown or the way in which we can communicate and share would be severely altered. No one wants this.
     
    johnlgalt likes this.
  19. This type of double dipping occurs all the time in many different markets. One of the most blatant is the fact that we, as US citizens, pay taxes on all of our income (both state and federal) right out of the gate only to turn around and be charged sales taxe and gas taxes and all sorts of other bs. Double dipping has become an economic policy that is implemented and maintained legally by anyone who takes the time to figure out how to.

    That last statement may be a gross generality, but it is true none the less...
     
  20. lykofos

    lykofos Member

    I can definitely see the devil's advocate point of view on this, in contrast to what I wrote above. I know that many EULAs are written that way, but not many people even read them (which isn't an excuse for ignorance). A bunch of legalese that we're pretty much conditioned to check the "I accept" button without reading a word of it.

    I realize full well that there is a disconnect between what I see as right and what Verizon's EULA states is acceptable. Personally, I suppose that I'm just the type of person that sees no problem circumventing the rules if I feel they're flawed / not to my liking. So I'll continue tethering until if/when Verizon catches me and says "you have to pay for that" or "we're terminating your contract." Neither of which I think will happen, as sporadically as I actually use wifi tethering. I have cable internet at home, so only use it infrequently with my laptop when I'm on the road.

    It's all about breaking the rules just enough to make yourself happy without getting caught. I speed all the time too even though it's against the law, but I usually keep it between 10-20 over the speed limit. If I'm barreling down the highway at 120mpg my chances of drawing attention / getting caught increase dramatically. Keep it reasonable and you should be ok, but be aware of the consequences if you get caught. :D

    This site has been very helpful / informative on several issues for me. I'm cool with the rules here, the owner is allowed to set the forum rules as he/she sees fit. I understand the logical / legal issues involved in setting the rules a s such. I'll make sure to monitor myself and not post / reply to any threads about wifi tethering with links to said apps (as I have done once or twice in the past) and keep tethering rule circumvention discussion to other forums. :cool:
     
    johnlgalt likes this.
  21. trophynuts

    trophynuts Extreme Android User

    Personally i think the OP's question has been answered. Which was

    Is rooting your device against Verizon's Policy.

    I do appreciate everyone in here being civil about the matter in which this thread turned to though.
     
    johnlgalt likes this.
  22. johnlgalt

    johnlgalt Antidisestablishmentarian

    Exactly - everyone comported themselves with a level of decorum I've rarely seen in any forum.

    Give yourselves a round of applause.
     
    trophynuts likes this.

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The Motorola Droid Bionic release date was September 2011. Features and Specs include a 4.3" inch screen, 8MP camera, 1GB RAM, TI OMAP 4430 processor, and 1735mAh battery.

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