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KILL the app if I X it out!!! Why is it still running!

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by Phil Indeblanc, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. Phil Indeblanc

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    Today I got a OS update.
    I have a Nexus Android phone and get them as Google dishes them out first.
    I was hoping this update would my fix my app issues....But Nope!

    I connect to the car (and I even do it manually!), and I turn on Spotify. Or Aha connecting to Aha supported headunit. Either one.

    So I have the free Spotify and find the options of music a bit boring for now, So I listen, then I press the main OS squre button out of the 3, to show my open apps, and Close the Spotify app. and listen to the car radio.
    I leave and return, and then as BT connect FFFFFin Spotify pops in without the app visible, just a banner and playing!!
    WTF?!!! is going on?!!!

    this is driving me crazy..Aha did that, and TED Talsk starts playing?

    I also had this happen with WAZE!

    Why is the X not SHUTTTTING the FFFN App OFFF?

    H E L P

    I understand I am a bit of a new convert to Android, but this is getting really anoying!
    Any advice or setting change I need to make? (why it behaves this way as a default is beyond me!)
     

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    #1 Phil Indeblanc, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  2. JAy3001

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    Sounds like to Bluetooth connection is still connected to the app and is purely calling it back.

    I've never been 100% on whether the recent apps button actually closes an app or just puts it into the background so other processes take priority.

    Do you actually close the app from within the app? Have you tried force closing the app from within the settings/app screen?
     
  3. Phil Indeblanc

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    Thanks for the reply......

    YEs, it maybe doing that, as the app is , as you say, just hidden. I'm trying to avoid my daily use of apps to resort to going into settings and each app to force quit. I am pretty sure that it would work, but whats the point of that. I appreciate the thought, but this is a major functional handicap.
     
  4. Bg260

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    Probably in settings "auto-play on bluetooth connection" or similar.
     
  5. Phil Indeblanc

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    I don't see that in BT settings.

    But In Developer Options, there is a Enable OpenGL traces, and it has a Apps , Don't keep activites, and an option to "Destroy every activity as soon as the user leaves it. Then the next option is a background processes limit.

    These may help, but is this what users need to do to Exit/kill and app?
     
  6. lunatic59

    lunatic59 Moderati ergo sum
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    You not only don't need to kill apps, but you shouldn't be doing that. It's a sure way to muck things up. I think what you're seeing is a setting in Spotify. Open spotify and tap on the menu. You'll see a gear icon at the bottom of the menu. Tap on that and look for 'Devices'. If you see your car's head unit listed, then remove it. See if that doesn't fix the problem.
     
  7. zuben el genub

    zuben el genub Android Expert
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    Does the CAR give you a choice? I've got the Vulcan's Alcatel flip hooked up so he can receive calls while he's driving -
    It works great, BUT---
    If I get in the car with my MXPE Bluetooth on - the damn system wants to play music, immediately! Since most of my music stuff is in Ringtone files, it has a bit of a hissy fit and I turn it off. There is absolutely NO reason that the car system should prefer my phone when it hasn't been programmed to.

    What I'm thinking is the operation of the system is geared for music - you had Spotify on, Spotify is a legit channel, therefore system uses Spotify. What would happen if you subscribed to another free service and added it to the system. Would you get a choice, then?

    Spotify can be a bit of a pain. The Vulcan's Acura had it as a free subscription and Spotify couldn't believe he didn't want it and wasn't interested. He finally had to get testy on the phone to get the pestering stopped!
     
  8. Phil Indeblanc

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    Its not just Spotify.

    I finish a route with Waze, I X it out from the apps open, and next thing I know its BACK UP and sending me info and asking me where I want to go next, etc.

    Same with Aha radio! I got in the car TED Talks starts blabbing away!

    Then I used Wifi Sniffer.
    I "X" it out, and its back up looking for other networks. Wtf?!

    Why would turning an app off "muck things up" I don't want a system that keeps things running in the background. I need it off when I say close. I don't recall saying snooze or sleep etc....Off means off. So its not bogging anything, not coming up telling me crap, and not eating at my resources.

    This is the kind of BS that makes my like alternate OS's, and I don't like that restriction, but if restriction is called for to have order and user rule, then so be it.

    Am I alone in experiencing this? Maybe something is wrong with my settings?
     
  9. Phil Indeblanc

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    I'm about to get rid of Spotify. I was about to sign up, (full family plan) but then on the Free service felt so restricted and turned off, I think I'll join Rhapsody.
     
  10. lunatic59

    lunatic59 Moderati ergo sum
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    Let me first say that I don't use Spotify, Waze or Aha and I wouldn't touch WiFi sniffer with a 10ft. pole given the ratings and comments in the play store. What you are missing is that part of these apps are services that get called with a certain condition or trigger. For this to happen they need to have a portion actually running. That's the way these things are designed. In this case, the trigger seems to be the connection to your car.

    Because you are killing the app portion at an arbitrary point. I'd equate it to pulling the plug on your PC when you step away from it. It may not do any real harm, but the likelihood that it will eventually corrupt data or damage hardware is much greater. And, as you have seen, these apps will respawn the processes without any intervention in an order to make the services available. There's a lot of information about what goes on with apps and services in this thread.

    Why You Don't Need a Task Killer.

    Uh, yes you do. Otherwise much of what people have come to expect from a mobile device wouldn't work. Imagine having to turn on an app every time you wanted to make a phone call or send a message. Or worse, having to manually check for calls every few minutes because the services were stopped. The idea is that with mobile devices you want these features to be ready to use all the time so that when you get a message or a call, or you get in your car, that the device is ready for you.

    I get it, you want to control which apps and services run. Killing them with an app manager isn't the way to do it. If you want the app to not run at all, "killing" it will only cause it to relaunch and you're in a vicious cycle. If you truly want it to stop you have to disable it or uninstall it, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

    I would suspect that somewhere in the app settings there are mute buttons or options to connect manually. If not, you might want to consider different apps or contact the developers as a suggestion for a future feature.
     
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  11. Bg260

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    Multitasking and quick app switching is all part of the "quality user experience". Google's way of giving us what they think we want. Or is it just so the apps can remain active in the background, quietly collecting and sending data on how we live our day to day lives?;):D
     
  12. mikedt

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    WiFi Sniffer is adware/spyware, and probably best avoided.
     
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  13. Gmash

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    If you don't want apps running in the background, then you don't want Android, that's just the way it works. However, I can see why your situation is annoying. Can you just turn off Bluetooth when you're not using it?
     
  14. Phil Indeblanc

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    Why would anyone expect phone and message to be off?
    Phone and message are part of the phone, they would be on at all times, and that is fully expected. Even a web browser that only requires user input to fetch data might be OK to be on, without interfering.
    That is super lame, and doesn't defeat the purpose, it give the user control, and not only that, but peace of mind that its not gonna interfere in the middle of what you do, as it often does!

    I'm gonna contact the dev team so they can consider making it an option to run in the background? No, that is something the OS should mandate to allow users control. That would be like emailing an unknown email address and waiting for a response. Or more like sending an email to theem and you asking them how long it takes to boil eggs. You can't expect users to do this at every turn of an app! Let alone get app devs to comply. They will just give you a preset response, like, "Thank you for your interest, we will send this to the department and keep visiting us for further development in the futre...etc" Come on!

    I meant to say Wifi Analyzer, not sniffer

    I'm not so sure of this, but it certainly is likely. But thats not even my worry although it should very well likely be.

    I just don't want sh*t poping up and playing and asking me sh*t, I use the app. Im done, I want it OUT of MY way with no interruptions. Each time it pops up, I feel like some telemarketing automation just got through my phone to ruin my day.

    That is a scary thought!
    So if I want control of my apps I have to opt out of Android is what you're saying. Really??!!
     
    #14 Phil Indeblanc, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  15. MLSS

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    Why not use the back button to exit your apps? I've never had the issue you are describing with any of our devices.
    I use Pandora and not Spotify but I'd try doing that instead of clearing out recent apps every time you exit the app.
     
  16. Brian706

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    I contact app developers all the time and politely describe app issues. 98% of them reply quickly and politely and work with me to push out a fix almost immediately. I've had some developers literally post a new version of the app within a couple hours, and some a couple of days.

    For one, why would the OS control what features an app developer chooses to put into their app? That makes absolutely no sense. For two, this isn't iOS. Android is an open source operating system that many phone manufacturers customize to their own liking. Google doesn't control every aspect of the Android ecosystem.

    There are apps you can find on the play store to stop services and stop apps from running, but it's already been mentioned that it's not a good idea.

    I don't understand what you are complaining about. You are literally upset about the way Android works under the hood. It works the way it was designed and it works well. If you want an OS that is closed source and under complete control, that's what Apple is for.

    I get that your problem is annoying, and it's certainly fixable by some means. You just poo poo on every suggestion you get.
     
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  17. MLSS

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    Maybe the OP just wants to vent more than get help.

    I've been their a time or 2 but I always have been thankful and appreciative of any advice or help that was offered.
     
  18. Phil Indeblanc

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    I do exit out the app! Thats the thing. Maybe there is a setting I've enabled that keeps them running? Maybe Pandora is not among the 3 I use?
    So far Spotify, Aha, Waze have popped up, as well as WiFi Analyzer...
    It comes on, and I have to stop the playing or try and swipe it away, or forced to unlock and X out of it. So if this happens as designed, there is something wrong in the design, if this can't be controlled. I don't like the OS dictating how I run it, and one of the main reasons I dropped iOS. To control what is happening.


    Fair enough, I should try that suggestion, although not an immediate fix to this issue, it is an option I will need to explore.

    That's like saying why does the OS have the option of truning OFF or ON WiFi. You're not being pragmatic. You're just looking at a way for me to be wrong. Why would you even take your time if all you want to do is say I'm wrong? No one is asking Google to control it, but don't you think the user should with an option, such as, "Completely exit out of app when exiting". Pretty simple.

    The app developers ride the fine line of too much or not enough in developing. OS is there to give the user control. Why do you think in the new updates in security we have Permission tabs. Because iOS was killing Android in such breaches in security with apps running rampant.

    But that is another discussion for another thread. This is me trying to see how I can not have things come up after I Exit an app. Can you imagine a computer with an app. You turn exit, and that is it. You may have some maintenance processes running for the next time you launch, and YES, that would make sense to a degree. But its on the Android it is doing more than that. Its interfering with my usage! Slowing me down and tripping up the entire experience of having a Smart phone...When it stupidly pops up with things I have no desire to deal with.
    Ok

    Let me answer that question for you...
    I am upset that I cannot stop an app I want to use when I want to use it, and not use it and not interfere with my use when I decided to stop using it. Is this really that far a reach in a user perspective desire? Really?

    No one is saying have a closed source. Why is it not logical to have an app stop what it is doing when you exit it? Why can't we have a "Sleep"vs Ëxit". As Exit defined means to leave, get out from. Its not a gray parallel! Its a defined function.
    This really has nothing to do with any other OS, although we can compare, yet that is not what I need.

    Sorry that you think I'm doo dooing on suggestions. Certainly not. I highly value each and all. I posted an issue, and it certainly needs some discussion and dialogue to pinpoint the issue for replies to have applicable solutions. As so far there are some guesses, and the ones I tried lead me to a dead end.

    First response is Jay3001, with the same bewilderment if it closes or not on Exit. Luckily he either has some other BT setting, which I will certainly explore, or doesn't use those apps.
    I actually say this...
    Thanks for the reply......
    YEs, it maybe doing that, as the app is , as you say, just hidden. I'm trying to avoid my daily use of apps to resort to going into settings and each app to force quit. I am pretty sure that it would work, but whats the point of that. I appreciate the thought, but this is a major functional handicap.

    BG260 suggests about AutoPlay in connections or settings. I have not found it, as there is no step/by step in where that might be. Under Settings, there is no AutoPlay, nor is there one under BT. So I was wondering if Im looking in the wrong spot. I eaven searched term Auto. No luck. But was waiting to try and report back.

    Zuben Gnube also had something I honestly could not clearly understand. For a moment it sounds like he too had some issue with this. Although i have a standard setup, other than Dev mode enabled. Just allowing Battery % to show and screen press confirm with a light up. Otehrwise a standard Nexus5X.

    Lunatic had a nice detailed reply, except I went in Spotify settings /Devices and there was "Listen on this Phone", and a "ChromeCast".
    No others like my AVcar player. I did turn off all those notifications.

    I may have not addressed a couple posts like that, and I apologize for that, as I'm still trying a few things before I say it doesn't work. Or I havn't been able to find your suggestion.
     
    #18 Phil Indeblanc, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  19. MLSS

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    I'm not sure what device you have or I missed which one you said it was...
    You have 3 buttons on the bottom of your device ( either on the phone or touchscreen)?
    If you open the recent app tab and swipe it away have you tried using the back button? It's usually a triangle. Sometimes it takes a few presses to exit out of the app but usually kills it so to speak.
    I'm not positive that's your issue but just trying to throw out another possible solution.

    I to think it is a Bluetooth issue myself.

    I wish I had Spotify so I could play around with it and see what I could come up with.

    Hopefully a fellow Spotify user will be able to help you out.
     
  20. Phil Indeblanc

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    Thanks, I actually see that key, and will try it. It maybe a way about it, as I use the Square key, and X out the app. This maybe the solution, I hope. Perhaps why you don't have this happen...other than not using the same apps. Will give it a shot.

    Btw, I mention the specific device towards the end :)

    Using the free version of Spotify has been off putting. I was going to sign up with a family plan for $16, but the free app was so restrictive, I think I maybe trying Rhapsody, in conjunction with SoundCloud. I also have Pandora, but it wants access to everything on the phone, so I have yet to install it. I might go ahead and install, and then block permissions. But it too is limited, and have little use for it.
     
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  21. lunatic59

    lunatic59 Moderati ergo sum
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    Let me ask you this, is it only happening with your head unit? I have a 2011 Mitsubishi that came with a factory Fuze system as well as Sirius Satellite. I have my phone and iPod connected via Bluetooth but I have to specifically select what plays, or if I leave it on, whatever the last thing playing comes back on when it connects. I've never had an issue with things turning themselves on as it were. Now, prior to having my iPod connected, I would occasionally play music through my phone connected through bluetooth because the USB port contains a flash drive of about 120 podcasts that I also list to (Car Talk ... yes, 'lunatic' for a reason. :p ). I did have an issue on occasion where I'd forget to turn the audio off on things like navigation or G+ locations (similar to Waze) but there was always a way to silence it. And, it stayed silenced until I unsilenced it (or reflashed my phone and forgot to turn it off again). Most of these are on by default.

    Killing, stopping, exiting or otherwise trying to 'control' the app is pointless as Android will interpret that as an app crash and attempt to restart it. That the way mobile OS's work. They are compact specific systems that try to have everything ready for you the instant you need it. To make an app stop doing something, you have to address that from with the app or get rid of the app. It's not a desktop where you have unlimited power and storage, and powerful processors that can launch and run massive amounts of code. If you try to apply a desktop paradigm to a mobile OS you will be frustrated and disappointed.

    Using the 'square key' and swiping out of the app will only clear it from memory, if the app includes a process that it requires to monitor ... let's say for you ... a Bluetooth connection, it will simply relaunch itself. This is one of the major ironies of task killers in that Android remembers that the app gets re-launched more frequently than others, assume it's a high priority app or service and work harder to keep it running. That's what I meant when I said killing apps could muck things up. Did you get a chance to read the task killer thread I linked? I know it's long, but there's a lot of good stuff there (and some head-banging stubbornness sprinkled with humor.)

    As Brian said, most Android developers will really work with people and appreciate the feedback. A lot of times, if you give them a good idea, they'll bend over backwards to get it done. There's a contact link on the app's play store page. The only people who really give those meaningless responses are huge companies like Apple, Google or Microsoft. :rolleyes:
     
  22. Phil Indeblanc

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    I'm gonna process more of what you said Lunatic, but I don't think its due to BT. Just today I had a couple notifications like the Weather and some email/normal, and when I unlocked the cell, my calculator popped up for a second. I pressed the Square, and there was my calculator that I haven't used in a while. Whats it doing popping up?

    OK, I have understaood not to Disable apps. which is pretty lame to have such a feature if its gonna mess things up. Maybe its only for debugging and problem solving issues? But pointless if its not gonna do what it says and without risk.

    And that Back triangle MLSS mentioned, it actually does less than the X or swipe from the open apps/Square panel. It actually keeps them in the cue of apps.

    I'll read that task thread next chance I get.

    I don't know if its a dev issue now with Calc popping up out of nowhere, unless that was a 1 time glitch. I'll have to monitor things.

    I wasn't saying everything a desktop does should be on mobile. We should all try and use the concept of balance more. If there is something great about a system, we should be able to adapt that. Just becuase it doesn't fit in some other system as a concept, doesn't mean we should forget it.

    Of course a mobile device wont function well if it works like a desktop(in an interface and input , and a few other things I have to think about....But stopping something from running because you are done using it should be a basic concept, and if like you say it needs to be ready to dish something out fast, then I should have the option of it ing that.

    For all practical purposes...its just gonna try and cue up from where you left off or give you updated info, which often is minimally relevant...like the wea. Sure, it is nice to see the update...But do I want to pick up a song from the last day I listened to it, NO, or have Waze suggest I decide someplace else to go, No!, or at calculation I need to make from before, no!
     
  23. lunatic59

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    Okay. That's wrong. It shouldn't do that. I can think of a couple of reasons why you might see that. First, do you have any type of startup manager installed like greenify? It might have a default set of basic apps and I could see a calculator being one of them. Another would be some sort of shortcut to launch the calculator like double-tapping the volume key that's built into your launcher. Or, somebody used your phone without you knowing. If none of those happened, then I think there is something wrong with your system.

    Android actually does that for you. It's kind of explained in the task killer thread, But I'll give you the quick version. When you use the triangle key (it's the 'back' button) it creates a virtual instance of the app in the state it was in when you backed out of it. It stores it in a free section of the phones RAM. That's it. It does not actually continue to run as in there's no processor cycles assigned to it, it performs no read/write functions and controls no hardware. It's pretty much frozen in time.

    The biggest problem is that Android continues to list any app that's cached as active although with the latest versions they do differentiate between cached and actually running processes. When you see the app listed you think it's still sucking power, stealing ram and slowing the phone down. Nope. It's actually the opposite. By caching frequently used apps, they save processor cycles, read/writes and ultimately power and time. When you kill, fluch, close, wipe or whatever you want to call it, Android has freed up the ram. In an effort to make your phone more efficient it will try and put something else in the unused part of the memory. That most likely will be the app you just closed.

    As I said, I don't use Waze or Spotify and my calculator has never popped up arbitrarily. I have no doubt the behave the way you say, but i would think there's a way to control when they connect and what the then do within the app itself.
     
  24. Phil Indeblanc

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    Thanks for the detailed response ma man. Yes, I think it was a mem glitch. No launcher, except the Nexus5x stock setup. Which is a clean android, a reason I got it, so there is no bloat, or update delays.

    I have to run, but will chime back in as I still need to read that Kill thread :)

    And yes, I understand the caching vs a full relaunch, and makes some sense , and I'm fine with it being on hold. Just not interfering with my daily use of the cell.

    Will write back later! Cheers!
     
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  25. Phil Indeblanc

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    Sound Cloud is doing it as well too. According to the article, Apps have now been programmed to stay in the users mind.

    The UNDERLYING reason for these apps to run depends on the permissions you have allowed. They are designed to scrape your information. If they are not running, they don't get a chance to complete transferring your personal data. This you gave permission to do. I stop permissions on apps that don't need it. Pandora requires access for ALL permissions. Its a music player, my calendar or contacts is none of their business. Its amazing how many apps like this are doing it.
    I'm not sure how effective it is at the install point, an app asking for all permissions, and then if you right away go to App/Permissions, kill the ones you want to stop. But it is what I do.


    While the thread article says...
    * Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when more memory is needed.
    * Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when it’s done doing what it needs to do.
    * Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when you haven’t returned to it in a long time.
    * Most services (while possibly running in the background) use very little memory when not actively doing something.
    * A content provider is only doing something when there is a notification for it to give. Otherwise it uses very little memory.

    IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT do this to all apps. More are left alone than they are managed.

    So some content providers feel the need for them to constantly nag users.
    So far....
    Waze
    SoundCloud
    Spotify
    Wifi Analyzer
    And calc, an OS app, may have been a slight glitch of this memory managmnet?

    Looks like ATK or Atrex maybe in my future if I have these behaviors continue.


    How long did it take an app to really load the first time you used it, a second or 2 faster? So what? Let it take a second or 5.
     
    AZgl1500 likes this.

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