Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by pcn2009, May 22, 2010.
removed by OfTheDamned
I know you are trying to help, but putting this info on an open forum, then having dozens of people call at once with the "same issue" will peak suspicions at Verizon and cause them to change their policy and possibly make it tougher to get a refurb.
Just my Opinion.
I hate getting anything refurbished, so you could be going from a perfectly fine phone to a still broken refurbished phone. Not worth it imo.
You decided to leak even though you knew it meant no going back. Trying to defraud Verizon because of your choices is not really the best option. They send out more phones causing them to lose money. They in turn pass the buck on to the rest of us. Or they start "cracking down" on people with the real issue to weed out the liars. Which causes more headaches to people with the real issues. Just my opinion.
To be fair, Verizon has refurbished phones for a reason, they aren't losing money because they are fixed just to be handed out. But it is still unethical to do this to Verizon.
Similar ethics to getting free money from the bank.
Go in to the bank.
Ask to talk to a teller.
Show them a gun.
It's ok though because they're federally insured, so they're not losing much money on it.
This seems a bit more extreme, but is it really that ethically different? Just because they're a big company doesn't mean they're not losing money. They still have to pay shipping on them, pay people to repair/inspect them. Granted they're overcharging us disgustingly for service etc. in the first place, but we choose to pay it.
Banks rob people. The reason consumers started taking advantage of companies is because they started taking advantage of us when they decided to send jobs and production over seas so they could make more money. Stop talking about ethics. Verizon would kill your first born child if they knew that they would get paid for it. If your phone doesn't work then get a refurb. If you are doing it just because you are impatient about some software; well maybe you should wait a little longer. I have the silent call problem and I plan on doing this and I will continue to do so until I get a phone that works correctly. If it was an app that did not work I would tough it out, but I bought a phone. Not a computer. I want it to be a phone first and a computer second.
My opinion on this method of getting a refurbished Eris from Verizon is that it is leaning in the direction of unethical, so to justify doing it we have to do one or both of two things:
1. pretend like the company has cheated us personally and this is payback and/or just "setting things right," and 2. pretend like our reasons are good enough to do whatever we want to get what we want.
Both of those things are rampant in the world these days, and they make most of us sick to see it going on amongst our fellow man, some of whom are people we know or are at least acquainted with.
You can most often get what you want by doing the right thing. Sometimes doing that is harder than the other methods, or won't work at all. But in the end you're growing ethically instead of shrinking ethically, not a bad thing these days.
Though I do think that leakers who knew that there was no going back have questionable ethics in a case like this, it is not strictly a black and white issue. I'd be willing to bet that anybody with the audio bug would have had the same problem with the OTA had they waited, and would have been eligible for a warranty replacement.
Many of those installing that leak made a mistake in my book.
But not a huge one and not a mistake for everybody; it was a mistake for those who did not think about the consequences and then take responsibility for those consequences once it came around that they were not satisfied with the unofficial software.
It is not rocket science, folks; you either do what's in the official rules or you don't. Guess what is likely to happen when you don't.
The third leak IS the official software.
If the phone doesn't work as a phone even after installing the official software, then it is Verizon's responsibility to fix it or replace it. Those who waited until after we established that "leak v3" and the OTA were identical were not doing anything unethical, so long as their phone has an actual problem.
I think it would be much more unethical for Verizon to keep you in a 2-year contract with a broken phone.
Well, so in a thin, rather technical manner, you're right.
But if an author finds his pre-published manuscripts in the hands of readers he'll feel pretty bad and he and the publisher will likely have a case for action; that is an extreme analogy against the issue of leaked updates for a phone, but it comes to mind as one element of several on the issue of "official vs not official."
Really? If I were a CSR at Verizon and someone pointed a gun in my face and asked for a refurb, I'd give them a brand new phone and every other phone in the store.
Sadly this thread is about how to lie your way in to a new phone so you can root it. Not about real issues.
Going official is what this thread is about, HTC and Verizon can flash ROMs back onto any phone. If they get a phone with leak, broken or just a phone you dont like within a given grace period they'll flash it back to a true official ROM. Then send it to someone else. It's part of the internal procedure to wipe a used phone to stock. We can also debate and argue about the price gauging, and the bandwidth caps and a billion other fun topics that could justify replacing a given phone. But thats not on topic.
This forum and all forums are not about ethics of right and wrong (for the most part) but about information on how to do things Verizon/HTC and main stream will not tell you (because you are not supposed to know how to do many things).
Going to a leak is unofficial. Hacking/rooting/breaking is technically illegal so half of this forum is doing something ethically (in the commercial world) wrong. Your doing something that the carriers dont want you to do. Using phone codes is something for a technician to use, not consumers without official guidance. This is why they dont list 90% of this information in your dumbed down manual.
Back to topic, the method above does its job, there are millions of ways to do the same thing. Break your phone, you get a new one. The method above does minimze cost to the carrier. they lose $20-40 in shipping (depending on what pricing they have negotiated with FedEx, they do pay less than we do). In the end, we all pay a higher price for being on the Verizon network.
I did this yesterday and got a new replacement phone.
I called up CS, stated my issues, and within the hour I walked in and out of a Verizon corporate store with my brand new replacement Eris...which is now rooted by the way.
I see nothing wrong with this if you are on leak v3 and want a phone that you can load software on..
Im sure Verizon has a way to fix it..
Yes, they have a way to re-flash leaked back to 1.5
I installed all three leaks. At some point I started having hardware issues (trackball scrolling problem) that often made my phone unusable. I called VZW and told them the problem I was having. I told them I was now on 2.1. They sent me a refurbished phone because of the trackball issue. I see no ethical problem in what I did. It was a hardware issue that some on all firmware versions have reported.
That said, I ignored the update on the refurb and rooted. I'm very happy with my phone now and understand the consequences of having a rooted phone.
I do not feel I have in any way cheated Verizon.
I'm on leak 3. My phone is working great. But if the phone were causing me problems, I wouldn't hesitate to take it back.
Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, I wouldn't suggest lying about it, but I think everyone will eventually have some kind of honest hardware issue (trackball, proximity sensor, g-sensor, silent call, etc).
Both phones were running the official 2.1 software, and nowhere did the OP lie to Verizon.
So, this is telling you that you CAN get your phone replaced if you have problems with the 2.1 you installed. Nothing wrong with getting your phone replaced if the official software isn't working right on your phone.
I think the whole point was if your not happy with a leaked phone and don't have any legit issues with it, this was basically making up a hard to replicate issue. If you are having legit problems, of course there nothing wrong about that. The ethical issue arises when the only issue that exists is when you have a leak and aren't happy about it.
Having said all that, this probably should never have been posted in a public forum. not cool
Posts about fraud or how to commit fraud are not permitted.
Thread Closed and OP's post Edited.