Help Locked s21 Ultra

[Anthony Ienco]

Been searching for an answer or help for a while. I don't even know if it's possible. Maybe a android programmer??

I purchased a S21 Ultra 256gb off Facebook market place in July for $1200.00. The guy showed me the receipt and I did an IMEI blacklist check. All ok.
In mid October, I picked up my phone and it had a message on it stating it had been locked by a finance company... See pic.

I phoned the company and they stated the phone was purchased on a rental plan and they haven't been paying. I immediately tried to get hold of the seller but no surprise, couldn't. I went to the Police and they basically told me there is not much they can do. I rang back the finance company and pleaded with them to unlock it. They bluntly refused and do not want the phone back.

So much searching and many forums, I have basically been told there is no way to get around my issue. Chimera doesn't have a solution.

I tried reloaded the stock firmware with Odin but when it reboots it stops with a message stating KB does not allow this. So it appears it is an MDM knoxgaurd block.

PS The lock screen does not allow any access to anything on the phone. What you see in the pic is all I can get to.

As a last resort I am trying this forum. If there is a way to solve this I would be prepared to pay a small fee.

 

[Hadron]

Yes, unfortunately this is a well-known scam on the seller's part. As far as the finance company (or carrier if the phone was bought from them) are concerned you have paid for stolen goods, because the seller stole from them by breaking the finance contract, and they owe you nothing. And if they remove the lock because you plead with them (and the blacklist, because this IMEI will almost certainly have been blacklisted by now) this just makes it easier for such scammers: if people know that they can get these phones unblocked they have no incentive not to buy them. So it is terrible for you, but it's the standard policy across the industry and in many countries for them to refuse to help.

The message is however new to me: generally what happens is that the phone is blacklisted and that's it. This must be something that Samsung have built into the system - probably, as you say, an application of Knox, but I'm interested if they offer that to anyone other than the carrier. But I'm afraid I know of no solution to this.

 

[mikedt]

$1200 for a second-hand S21? It's not even that much brand new is it?

"Locked by Snaffle", so this phone was apparently locked remotely by a finance company? That's something I've never heard of before. I guess it must have been customised for them. Because AFAIK usually phones are IMEI blacklisted by the carriers, when there's outstanding monies or accounts in default. If it can be defeated or not, maybe not as I guess it uses KNOX.

 

[Hadron]

$1200 for a second-hand S21? It's not even that much brand new is it?

It's the 256GB phone, so will cost a little more than the entry model. But I did think that I'd want bigger discount than that when buying second-hand from a random person on Facebook (except I just wouldn't do that). I assumed though that there had to be some reason they couldn't buy a new phone through a reliable channel.

 

[Dannydet]

Next time, buyer beware. You now own a $1200 paperweight.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

Yes, You are all correct. I forgot to Mention I'm in Australia so the 256gb sell for 2000.00 so I THOUGHT 1200 was a good deal..... Yes its been locked remotely and I have looked up the IMEI Blacklist and the IMEI IS NOT blacklised even now???? So its a Knox/MDM lock of sorts.... Thats why I was trying to get around the Knox Lock. The fact the company is not interested in getting it back, and have not blacklisted it, confuses me some what.... I am on a Pension over here so every cent counts so I will continue to look for a solution as remote as it might be. Maybe in the near future someone will find a work around.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

It's the 256GB phone, so will cost a little more than the entry model. But I did think that I'd want bigger discount than that when buying second-hand from a random person on Facebook (except I just wouldn't do that). I assumed though that there had to be some reason they couldn't buy a new phone through a reliable channel.

Yes here in Aust, the s21 ultra is 2000.00 new so I thought a 800 dollar saving was worth it.....

 

[Anthony Ienco]

Next time, buyer beware. You now own a $1200 paperweight.

I always live by this. Being a senior person. But the one time I slipped up, its cost me big time.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

Yes, unfortunately this is a well-known scam on the seller's part. As far as the finance company (or carrier if the phone was bought from them) are concerned you have paid for stolen goods, because the seller stole from them by breaking the finance contract, and they owe you nothing. And if they remove the lock because you plead with them (and the blacklist, because this IMEI will almost certainly have been blacklisted by now) this just makes it easier for such scammers: if people know that they can get these phones unblocked they have no incentive not to buy them. So it is terrible for you, but it's the standard policy across the industry and in many countries for them to refuse to help.

The message is however new to me: generally what happens is that the phone is blacklisted and that's it. This must be something that Samsung have built into the system - probably, as you say, an application of Knox, but I'm interested if they offer that to anyone other than the carrier. But I'm afraid I know of no solution to this.

This is not a carrier lock at all and they HAVE NOT blacklisted the imei to this day... So its obviously remotely done somehow using knox. Has everyone confused on other forums as well. I believe Samsung have a similar lock if you purchase a phone using their finance?

 

[puppykickr]

Be sure to report the crook that sold you this pretty brick.
Report them to Facebook, and be sure to follow up with bad reviews on whatever page/channel you found this rectal thorn.

At this point, maybe the best and most satisfying thing is to prevent as many sales for this person as possible.

 

[Dannydet]

I agree with puppykickr...
Lambaste the crook.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

I agree with puppykickr...
Lambaste the crook.

Have done so, but it appears he hasn't logged on since then... I am suspecting a fake user account as I met him at a cafe to collect and pay for the item.

 

[mikedt]

This is not a carrier lock at all and they HAVE NOT blacklisted the imei to this day... So its obviously remotely done somehow using knox. Has everyone confused on other forums as well. I believe Samsung have a similar lock if you purchase a phone using their finance?

This is something I've never seen before, a finance(hire purchase or instalment plan) company apparently reaching into the phone and remotely locking it via the internet. And if they can do it with phones that have outstanding payments, they can probably do it with smart-TVs, tablets, laptops, etc. or even cars that are connected to the internet.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

This is something I've never seen before, a finance(hire purchase or instalment plan) company apparently reaching into the phone and remotely locking it via the internet. And if they can do it with phones that have outstanding payments, they can probably do it with smart-TVs, tablets, laptops, etc. or even cars that are connected to the internet.

Yep, I agree with that. Sometimes technology can be the enemy. But I guess if you honour your agreement and make payments, its all good. Untill somthing like this.

 

[Hadron]

Ah, AUS $, that explains it. With the single largest group here being Americans (even though neither Mike nor I are) there is a tendency to see "$" and assume "US $", and $1,200 US is in the ballpark of the new price of that phone - hence the confusion.

Yes, this is the first time I've heard of a finance company being able to do this. I'd have thought the only people who could customise the system software would be the service provider and Samsung themselves, so expected there to be a connection between the finance company and the service provider, which is why I assumed that an IMEI blacklist would follow too. But it seems not. So do this outfit provide finance for phones bought from Samsung instead, or do Samsung provide bespoke kill switches to finance companies like this? A bit scary if they do provide that sort of facility to companies that aren't in the telecoms business, though if any company would say "sure, we'll do that if you pay us" it would be Samsung.

The only thing I can think of is that there is one party in this who might be able to track down the scammer: if he signed an agreement with a finance company they presumably wanted some proof of identity (unless they are complete morons). Of course I don't expect them to give it to you, but you could ask whether they would be willing to give it to the police (or, alternatively, whether they are happy to let him get away with ripping both them and you off)? I know the police say there is nothing they can do, but maybe if they had the identity of someone who has stolen about $3,000 (between what he's stolen from them and from you) rather than just "I bought this from an unknown person on Facebook" there's a chance that they'd take notice? A long shot, but it's all I can think of.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

Ah, AUS $, that explains it. With the single largest group here being Americans (even though neither Mike nor I are) there is a tendency to see "$" and assume "US $", and $1,200 US is in the ballpark of the new price of that phone - hence the confusion.

Yes, this is the first time I've heard of a finance company being able to do this. I'd have thought the only people who could customise the system software would be the service provider and Samsung themselves, so expected there to be a connection between the finance company and the service provider, which is why I assumed that an IMEI blacklist would follow too. But it seems not. So do this outfit provide finance for phones bought from Samsung instead, or do Samsung provide bespoke kill switches to finance companies like this? A bit scary if they do provide that sort of facility to companies that aren't in the telecoms business, though if any company would say "sure, we'll do that if you pay us" it would be Samsung.

The only thing I can think of is that there is one party in this who might be able to track down the scammer: if he signed an agreement with a finance company they presumably wanted some proof of identity (unless they are complete morons). Of course I don't expect them to give it to you, but you could ask whether they would be willing to give it to the police (or, alternatively, whether they are happy to let him get away with ripping both them and you off)? I know the police say there is nothing they can do, but maybe if they had the identity of someone who has stolen about $3,000 (between what he's stolen from them and from you) rather than just "I bought this from an unknown person on Facebook" there's a chance that they'd take notice? A long shot, but it's all I can think of.

Yes, I thought of all this. Finance company cant tell me because of privacy and its probably not his real identity. Police not interested.... And after all that, nothing will result in getting the phone working or my money????

 

[mikedt]

Does Facebook have any provisions for solving issues like this in their Market Place? Which is something I've never even looked at myself.

 

[mikedt]

Yes, this is the first time I've heard of a finance company being able to do this. I'd have thought the only people who could customise the system software would be the service provider and Samsung themselves, so expected there to be a connection between the finance company and the service provider, which is why I assumed that an IMEI blacklist would follow too. But it seems not. So do this outfit provide finance for phones bought from Samsung instead, or do Samsung provide bespoke kill switches to finance companies like this? A bit scary if they do provide that sort of facility to companies that aren't in the telecoms business, though if any company would say "sure, we'll do that if you pay us" it would be Samsung.

I think that's exactly like what this is, facilitated via Samsung's KNOX MDM.

The name "Make it Mine Finance" from the OP's screen-shot, that sounds like a rent-to-own company, like say Bright House in the UK. Where the item been financed isn't actually yours, you're effectively renting it until the payment terms are completed. This was always known as a hire purchase(HP) for decades.

KNOX was originally introduced for enterprise device management, and it does have the facility for remotely disabling Samsung phones, like for if they go missing from a company's inventory. So that probably applies to a fleet of rented phones from peeps like Make it Mine or Bright House. Repossessing a phone is likely a lot more difficult than repossessing a house or a car, so a kill switch on the device is their solution I think.

It's definitely something to look out for when purchasing a used smart-phone(especially Samsung apparently), and that's in addition to IMEI blacklisting.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

I think that's exactly like what this is, facilitated via Samsung's KNOX MDM.

The name "Make it Mine Finance" from the OP's screen-shot, that sounds like a rent-to-own company, like say Bright House in the UK. Where the item been financed isn't actually yours, you're effectively renting it until the payment terms are completed. This was always known as a hire purchase(HP) for decades.

KNOX was originally introduced for enterprise device management, and it does have the facility for remotely disabling Samsung phones, like for if they go missing from a company's inventory. So that probably applies to a fleet of rented phones from peeps like Make it Mine or Bright House. Repossessing a phone is likely a lot more difficult than repossessing a house or a car, so a kill switch on the device is their solution I think.

It's definitely something to look out for when purchasing a used smart-phone(especially Samsung apparently), and that's in addition to IMEI blacklisting.

Yes I agree... I beleive, from what I have heard, that Samsung Finance use the same sort of Knox lock if you do not make payments on your phone. It will certainly stop me ever buying a phone off an unknown or even Ebay. Up till now, It was unknown.. Guess I was the ginny pig that found out the hard way. My only hope now is that someone comes up with a way of defeating the knox or disabling it on the s21. They have on most other models, But doesnt look good for the S21.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

Does Facebook have any provisions for solving issues like this in their Market Place? Which is something I've never even looked at myself.

Like Gumtree. Buyer beware?

 

[Dannydet]

https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/how-do-you-disable-knox.4059755/

 

[Anthony Ienco]

https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/how-do-you-disable-knox.4059755/

Thanks for the link... Apparantly, like all the others, it doesn't work on the S21 Ultra?

 

[Dannydet]

Crap. I'm just grabbing at straws here...

 

[mikedt]

KNOX uses secure boot, to try and ensure the device can only run as intended by Samsung and/or an enterprise admin. And I suspect they've made it more difficult(maybe impossible) to defeat in their recent devices.

 

[Anthony Ienco]

KNOX uses secure boot, to try and ensure the device can only run as intended by Samsung and/or an enterprise admin. And I suspect they've made it more difficult(maybe impossible) to defeat in their recent devices.

It appears so..