Mac VS PC: ultimate face off!...

[9to5cynic]

^ A lot of linux is pretty easy, installing ubuntu 11.10 is much easier (IMO) than installing windows. Walks you though it, has options for how you want the disk (only ubuntu, dual boot, other)... Installing now (like to start each semester out fresh, and I have heard good things about unity's direction as of late...)

Definitely try it out



@ John - I don't know if this is a real feature, but it seems like I read about it with the new os x update... It was basically backups of each file that you create, so you can restore each variation of the file. Though, it may have been something I was imagining .. ? *shrug* I would like to try it out at somepoint though...

 

[lunatic59]

I would like to try a hackintosh at some point, right now I want to get my first Linux machine up and running.

Ahhh, the memories. You never forget your first Linux. My first desktop linux installation goes back to '98 when Red Hat (v5.2) was giving away hats ... which I still have, btw.

 

[9to5cynic]

Ahhh, the memories. You never forget your first Linux. My first desktop linux installation goes back to '98 when Red Hat (v5.2) was giving away hats ... which I still have, btw.

That must explain the new red colors

Oh yeah, ubuntu 8.04 - during thanksgiving break. Wrecked my comp. I thought all the software in the software center was available to use (like in windows, the install file was there - just had to install it) - but it wasn't. Needed to DL it. And getting a dialup modem working is a major pain!

Fortunately that didn't deter me for too long - learned more about backups and installations that day than ever before, and probably ever after

 

[johnlgalt]

I'm not too far behind you - I hit FC 2 when it first started making waves....

That's also back when Con Kalivas was writing his patches for the kernels - god I miss those optimized ck patches lol

 

[EarlyMon]

I have Ubuntu running on my Evo 3D, I guess that was my last install. My first Linux was downloading to a bag full of floppies (still have, along with another OS source on microfiche) but I am not sure of the install date. Early or mid 90s maybe, before Slackware. I still run a RedHat 4 on one machine - quality never goes out of style.

That file versioning thing in OS X - I think you are referring to Time Machine? Pretty cool built in backup - right idea, anyway.

 

[SUroot]

Yeah I've got ubuntu on my desire. Not so much an install than mounting an image in a loop device (the way I did it) but it comes with lxde and its much too windowsee for me.

Don't get me wrong, I love windows. It's my bread and butter. In the same way I don't want my android to look like an iPhone or blackberry, I don't want Linux looking like windows.

I've been trying very hard to get unity 2d running but so far, no luck

 

[brotherswing]

If not for an Ati Radeon HD2400 there wouldn't be Microsoft products anywhere near my laptop.

 

[EarlyMon]

Yeah I've got ubuntu on my desire. Not so much an install than mounting an image in a loop device (the way I did it) but it comes with lxde and its much too windowsee for me.

That constitutes a virtual machine, I'm doing the same. I wrote the script floating around XDA allowing you to resize the image upward if you need that. And I like lxde for a small memory system, the image I started with didn't have it. I probably still have all the links to go thru building your own ARM image if you want to build your own image. I'm back on Jaunty Jackalope and I can offer nothing trying for Unity 2D but my hat's off when you get that working!

How is this on-topic?

If it is at all (and I apologize), it's because on Windows or OS X, if I have an extra machine and not extra cash, I'll install things like Open Office and GIMP and I wanted equivalents for Android. I eventually settled on Office Suite Pro and Photo Enhance Pro, but for a short time, using Ubuntu on my phone gave me desktop capabilities I was missing on Mac or Windows.

 

[SUroot]

Just before we end the off-topicnicity of this conversation, do you happen to have a link to that thread for creating your own images please?

I paid for an installation guide app and was going to ask. didnt know there was a thread for that.

 

[EarlyMon]

There are several helpful resources for this, all free on the web.

I've got them squirreled away on another machine, will send you a PM later with the links.

 

[SUroot]

There are several helpful resources for this, all free on the web.

I've got them squirreled away on another machine, will send you a PM later with the links.

Thats brilliant, thanks. I would google it but to be honest, I dont even know what search terms I would use. Headless server is one thing I have learned it is sort of similar too.

 

[SamuraiBigEd]

off-topicnicity

Nice word!

 

[EarlyMon]

 

[SUroot]

Nice word!

Feel free to use it. Its one of my own

It was between that or off-topiciciousness.

Also, antidisofftopicarianism (Keeping the topics off track since May 2010)

 

[johnlgalt]

I resemble that last one! lmfao

 

[mrspeedmaster]

You want a really fast *nix box? Compile your own kernel and apps specifically for your hardware - so there is no guess work - it turns on, loads the modules it needs without polling, and poof- you're at a login in well under 30 seconds flat from power on.

Of course, that is not for the faint of heart lol....

That is one of the great things I like about Linux.
I can build a small footprint server under 300megs.
I set up about 20 ubuntu servers running JeOS (Just enough OS) virtualized w/ XEN and I love it. I was able to copy whole servers/backup on usb sticks.
All I needed were apache, ffmpeg and a few command utilties.
Linux is very lean and fast...



Now to a different note.

I do not understand how SOME Linux users can hate on OSX yet embrace Windows.
If you are one of the Linux users who are fully committed in the GNU open-source model, I respect your religion. I totally understand embracing the GNU religion and distancing from the close-source model.
I, do, I respect that but if you embrace Windows (in the slightest) , it seems contradictory.

To me, Linux, BSD, OSX all all kissing cousins because we all use POSIX userland tools. The concepts are similar in nature. You have your bash shell, posix, similar dev tools -- perl, python.
You similar file-tree (/etc/, /var/,/usr/, /bin/).

Apple contributes quite a bit to open source (Apple - Open Source) and their contributions are more germane to Linux than what MS has to offer.
E.G. Changes to Apache, bonjoir, mdns, CUPs. They own CUPs and yet maintain it as completely open. Every Linux user benefits from CUPs if they use a printer (CUPS).

 

[johnlgalt]

Thanks for a good post and some sanity - I think that a lot of people do forget that Apple is not all Evil Empire and Micro$oft is not all Big Brother and that Google is not all Secret Spy. They all contribute stuff in various ways, but I can see why anyone would choose either side of your point - embracing either of those two companies, MicroSoft or Apple - just because Apple contributes to these sources does not mean one can overlook other facets of the company that are not anywhere near open source. Add to the matter the fact that they OS is still closed source, as is developing on the platform, and yet they are using the same hardware as any PC manufacturer....

To someone who were to glance at the situation, it could just as easily look like the support of FOSS that Apples puts forward is but a smokescreen toe appease the masses....

I'm guessing I don't need to state the same holds for M$, b/c, well, it does. Lol.

 

[SUroot]

How much open source code is Windows built from? I bet there's a little, ms are always being reported on for stealing stuff.

But osx is an open source base, sold. I don't agree with that.

It may be contradictory, but I'm allowed to be because 1) I am human and 2) I am a hypocrite

 

[mplevy]

As a Windows-Mac convert in progress I'll add my $0.02

Hardware design:
Overall Apple builds a solid laptop, all aluminum construction just makes the laptop feel SOLID and it looks really nice. The keyboard and trackpad are nice bits of design and engineering as well. Compared to the Dell Latitudes/Inspiron and the HP Pavilion machines I have experience with, the Apple is just better from a build quality/design standpoint. The screen is second to none, especially in bright sunlight. I could sit on my deck in the summer (North side of the building) and be able to read text on the screen clearly, I couldn't do that with either of the other laptops at my disposal.

OS:
Windows has some things it does better but after using OS X Lion for the last few months (work-supplied Mac) I'm beginning to see the light. Some tasks are easier, some things just make sense. Daily I have multiple "desktops" in use, one with email one with web browser and one with chat client. In fact I'm using a 13" MBP with a Windows machine with dual 19" LCDs sitting right next to me. The Mac just "feels" faster (Mac is a 2.3 i5, the Dell is a 2.5 i5).

Yes, there are SOME things one can do that the other can't (goes both ways), but that's why I have RDC installed on the Mac, and the Dell computer still functioning as it's supposed to.

To the point of automation. Windows 7 has the Powershell now, I would imagine some of what a previous poster had scripted on a Mac could possibly be done with Powershell on a Windows 7 box. I haven't gotten into that yet but I probably will once I'm ACMT certified.

I won't speak to the cost perspective as I haven't shopped laptops or desktop parts in depth in the last year or so.

 

[EarlyMon]

It's helpful to look at how, when and why the two companies embraced unix.

Apple did it upon Jobs' return, when they were at the point of maximum damage from the Skulley days. Internally, they had in the past looked at various OS alternatives to MacOS but those went nowhere. Jobs got that MacOS was beyond repair, and along with his NeXT experience, saw a bit of light. OS X was launched and the open part of it became the Darwin project. Interestingly, the BSD kernel was abandoned in favor of the Mach kernel, whose source code at the time was quite a mess.

The first open source I'm aware of in Windows was their TCP/IP improvements (back around 2000 or so when networking _really_ started to work well on Windows), stolen whole cloth from BSD without credit. This was strongly denied as re-engineered until someone leaked source and it still had the open source credits in it. Then there was the Microsoft attempt at the Korn shell. Upon its unveiling, an MS wonk stood up and explained how great it was. An old guy in the audience sang out that it violated a number of conventions, and the wonk argued that perhaps the old fart didn't know that ksh was well-known and that blah blah blah. The old fart simply answered, Yes, I know, my name is David Korn. There was a time when Microsoft had guns blazing for FOSS. But that was then.

The relationships of SuSE(*), Novell, Attachmate, WRQ and Microsoft are dizzying. In a day many of us never thought could come, Microsoft now owns Linux-related patents and to top that off, a small piece of your Android phone was paid to MS.

Apple initially embraced open source to survive. Microsoft did it gain a portion of control of a competitor.

Both seem to have succeeded admirably.



*Footnote - in the early dot com days, SuSE Linux was recognized and certified by the EU for telecommunications, and stories of their phone companies adopting SuSE right and left was a common occurrence on Slashdot. What a coincidence how that all ties to phones, money and control and how interesting things ended up playing out today. Yep - total coincidence. I also have bridges for sale.

 

[EarlyMon]

Add to the matter the fact that they OS is still closed source, as is developing on the platform, and yet they are using the same hardware as any PC manufacturer....

One thing Apple no longer mentions, and they used to -

Darwin (operating system) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GNU-Darwin Distribution | Free System Administration software downloads at SourceForge.net

We had rather high hopes for that at one point. Oh, well. I did get a good set of usable avatars out of it.

Homepage of Hexley the DarwinOS mascot

I snipped out the rest of your comment because I agreed with it.

 

[KTW]

All 3 are manufacturers of children's educational toys (electronic).

Fisher price and speak and spell go back certainly as far as when I was a child. Vtech, probably only the last 10 years

forgive my poor eye sight...but aint those mac books ?

 

[KTW]

not that i dislike apple products or anything but if you ask me, id say that apple products are fashon accessories, not hard core tech like windows or LG.

 

[EarlyMon]

Can't overestimate the power of the killer app, in my opinion.

Mac started with a few, Word, Lotus, Paint, but before long, you got Office bundled on just about every new PC. That is a killer app suite. (Also runs well on a Mac after you pay extra.)

Then Microsoft bends over backwards to help developers, especially peripheral developers. The rise of killer apps supported on a wider range of hardware.

I don't think it's so much the operating system as the killer apps.

 

[andr01d]

killer ap = VisiCalc!!!
anybody remember it??