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General Magnusson Moss Warranty Act...

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by Zerethusta, May 23, 2010.

  1. Zerethusta

    Zerethusta Well-Known Member
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    So back when I was heavy into modifying cars, there was a big problem with dealerships refusing to work on modified cars, saying that they weren't factory therefore warranty was invalid.

    The way to get anything done was to just say 4 words, and they would shut up and do what they're supposed to have in the first place.

    Magnusson Moss Warranty Act.

    Basically an act that said that if you modify a part and something fails that the modified part did not contribute to it breaking, then the warranty could not be invalidated.

    I don't know if this applied only to car warranties or all warranties, but does anyone know more about it? If it extends to ALL warranties, then we'd not have to worry about whether we voided our warranties by leaking, for hardware issues.
     

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  2. Jmtegra

    Jmtegra Android Enthusiast
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  3. Caddyman

    Caddyman Android Expert
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    me niether, i had them write it into the contract when buying new cars that AM mods would not void the warranty....lol
     
  4. hrbib21

    hrbib21 Android Expert
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    Yes, I mention it frequently on the auto forums I belong to (currently Toyota). It does apply to all consumer products. The reason it is discussed so much in regard to vehicles is because so many people have problems with dealerships attempting to blame everything on non-warranty related issues (i.e. something you did).
     
  5. Zerethusta

    Zerethusta Well-Known Member
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    There we go then.

    Sorry I didn't research myself, was changing oil on my bike and thought of it, came posted, then went for a ride...

    So anything that is deemed hardware related should be able to laugh when they say we voided our warranty.

    I'm SURE there'd be PLENTY of lawyers willing to go at Big Red over unlawfully voided warranties.
     
  6. alprazolam

    alprazolam Android Expert
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    First of all, how does the software of a phone break the hardware? How can Verizon refuse to warranty a hardware problem, no matter which software you decided to install. They have a right to say that they will not be responsible for software problems when you do not use their official builds, but other than that...
     
  7. Zerethusta

    Zerethusta Well-Known Member
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    Exactly. They're saying if we have leak, we have voided our warranty.

    If it was a software issue, there could be validity, except that they have verified that v3 IS the OTA, but this means we shouldn't have to be concerned about admitting to the leak when doing a hardware warranty exchange for silent phone/earpiece/trackball issues etc.
     
  8. flip603

    flip603 Well-Known Member
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    i haven't seen the droid eris's warranty...but the MMWA is basically a disclosure statute. it sets forth how companies must write their warranties...either full or limited warranties. verizon is within their rights to limit their warranty how they want and if it states that certain modifications can void the warranty, it can. If the warranty says that, the act isn't going to get you around that. it simply mandates certain disclosures based on the type of warranty. it doesn't not require companies to extend minimum protections. it is up to the manufacturer how much or little protection they want to provide. I'm not exactly sure how you want to use the MMWA but I don't think it'll do want you want for you
     
  9. thenestor

    thenestor Android Expert
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    If you installed leak 1 and then complained to verizon about having to sign into google on reboot, it would be your own fault for installing buggy software. I'd say the same thing about the silent phone bug until we verified that even OTA phones can have it, and that the OTA is equivalent to leak v3, which means the problem had nothing to do with the software "modification" of installing a leak.
     
  10. 0wrx2

    0wrx2 Member
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    hmm never heard of that either. i know some subaru dealers that would have a tough time with that.
     
  11. Scynthetic78

    Scynthetic78 Well-Known Member
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    Tell me about it. I wish I would have known about this act a few years ago. I actually payed for an extended warranty when I bought my wrx. All of the mods that have been done to it (besides clutch and flywheel) were already done to it when I bought it from the dealer and yet I end up spending over 5k for a new engine because a rod bearing failed. The dumbass rep from the warranty company insists on flying out from the east coast to look at it himself, despite knowing that it had aftermarket parts on it, only to tell me that they wouldn't cover it because of said parts. So basically, I got screwed because of something that was there when I bought it and most likely had no relation to the problem anyway.
     
  12. bkratzer83

    bkratzer83 Member
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    Boyfriends phone has silent call issue after ota
     
  13. CORUPT1

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    Hate to go off topic with you, but it is well known in the WRX community that once people start modifing there cars, the rod bearings have been known to go. I am sure if you read your extended warranty, it would state that aftermarket parts are not covered (even if they were installed before you purcahsed the car) and the MMWA does not cover you if they are found to cause the problem with the car. More than likely those modifications did cause the rod bearings to go. I hate to say it, but if you modify your vehicles engine, be ready to pay when something breaks.
     
  14. Scynthetic78

    Scynthetic78 Well-Known Member
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    You're probably right. I guess that's what I get for taking the dealer's word for it. (I specifically asked if everything was covered since all of the mods were done at that very dealer and he told me everything was good) I probably could have taken it to court and had a decent chance of winning, since the mechanic told me that the oil pump was also making some weird noises when they pulled it. I would have ended up paying more in lawyer fees than what the engine cost, and I would have been without a car until the court proceedings were over, so the fight just wasn't worth it. Now that I know this dealer is more than willing to sell me a warranty that won't actually cover anything, I'll be going somewhere else when I trade up to an STI.
     
  15. hrbib21

    hrbib21 Android Expert
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    Per the federal warranty act, any manufacturer that denies warranty coverage must prove that the failure was caused by someone other than them. The onus is on them to prove it, not you.

    But the above post touches on the major dilemma for a consumer: Is it worth the legal fees to fight it? Because, if denied, that's really the only recourse you have available.
     
  16. thenestor

    thenestor Android Expert
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    Well, you also have the recourse of taking your business elsewhere. Or even just switching back to a non-smartphone, costing Verizon $30 a month.
     
  17. dcfan99

    dcfan99 Well-Known Member
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    I'm just curious - where has Verizon said we voided our warranties? If it's just on Twitter, I hold zero confidence in the accuracy of that since everything else they've said about the leakers has been wrong. I have seen a number of people posting about successfully receiving replacement phones due to hardware issues while on a leak.
     
  18. thenestor

    thenestor Android Expert
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    FYI, here's the link to Verizon's Extended Warranty (for those that have the $1.99 option or the Total Equipment Coverage which includes it):

    Terms & Conditions

    As you can see, their Extended Warranty abides by the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. It specifically says that the warranty does not cover "Defects or damage from improper testing, operation, maintenance, installation, adjustment or any alteration or modification of any kind." So if your defect or damage is from installing software, they don't cover it. But if your defect is not from that, then they do cover it. The silent call bug exists in phones with OTA, phones with leaks, and phones with root ROMs, and is therefore not from the leak. Same thing with a bad proximity sensor.
     
  19. hrbib21

    hrbib21 Android Expert
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    This is true to a point. Taking your business elsewhere only ensures that it won't happen again with that business but does not resolve the warranty situation. However, I am commenting generally about the federal warranty act and have no dog in this hunt. Personally, I think trying to apply it to this situation is futile. Verizon would have a very strong case against any leakers who tried to use their warranty coverage.
     
  20. thenestor

    thenestor Android Expert
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    Verizon might have a case against leakers who try to use warranty coverage for *software* issues, but not hardware issues. And honestly, although Verizon may have a case against software issues, I think HTC has a much weaker case: HTC signed the leaks with "release-keys" which indicates that they were not intended for testing, but rather for official release (even though they ended up not using the first two releases). Everyone with a leak is using official, signed, approved HTC software. (Otherwise it would not be installable on our phones.) Rooted folks, however, are using HTC software signed with "test-keys" which means that it is only for testing.
     

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