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(moved posts) Is it ok to put out wireless tether info?

Discussion in 'Suggestion Box & Feedback' started by Metfanant, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert
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    (mod note - These posts were moved midstream from another thread regarding the idea that Verizon will be cracking down on wireless tethering - but raise interesting points on the overall subject of tethering on rooted phones - so while this first post might seem like an odd starting point for a thread, probably by a few posts in, the whole discussion is clarified. Is it right or wrong to engage in wireless tethering? What are the responsibilities? And with that...)

    I do care about whether you should or shouldn't use this...nobody should be helping you steal from Verizon...this information can be found in other places..

    this is a great forum, full of very helpful people...and with just about any other question i would be glad to help you...but in light of recent events...i personally think that any talk of how to get tethering to work should be disallowed...
     

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  2. JrzDroid

    JrzDroid Android Expert
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    Pay the $20 for it
     
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  3. droidpcguru

    droidpcguru Android Enthusiast
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    Have you read the information lately about VZ cracking down and the new securities being built into the new operating systems?? I for one will not be tethering anymore...
     
  4. droidpcguru

    droidpcguru Android Enthusiast
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    Maybe not.. but when VZ catches you and your bill becomes $$$$ you'll find out.. just sayin'.

    ....Not to mention them getting sick of people doing it and all of us eventually being kicked off the network for having rooted phones..
     
  5. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert
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    see i completely disagree...the Theft of services is at the very heart of these recent issues that are floating around...

    im fine with not telling people what they can and cant do with their phones...but not when they are stealing something and potentially causing harm to ME...
     
  6. C0n57an71n3

    C0n57an71n3 Android Enthusiast
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    I agree it is their choice. I disagree that it should be shared on this forum.
     
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  7. bouchigo

    bouchigo Android Expert
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    ^^What he said :D
     
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  8. ECFfighter7232

    ECFfighter7232 Android Expert
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    right and he said he didnt want to get into the debate of it so im sure he knows the possible consequences... if he gets charged it would be on his head.
    this thread was created to ask a question, not to ask peoples opinions about what he was asking

    people have been using wireless tether for root users for A LONG ASS TIME. if you stop now, I can guarantee nothing in the course of action that carriers and manufacturers are doing will change, they will still continue to lock the crap out of these phones even if every root user out there stops doing it right this second.

    point still remains that this thread was created to get an answer to a question, NOT your OPINION of what he should or shouldnt do.
    if you dont have the answer then simply dont post your opinion, he even asked for this not to be a debate over that


    EDIT: mods might want to consider locking this thread up considering the OP has been pointed to a thread where he can get his answer from and the rest of the thread is just going to go down the same path as the other 10 threads discussing this... which will lead to no where
     
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  9. shanline

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    I work as a systems engineer for a software compan
    Seattle, WA
    Data is data.. I have an unlimited data plan on my phone and use it to surf the net. (even though I only use about 1-2GB of data per month on my phone and rarely tether, but I like having the option)

    Tell me what the difference is between surfing some sites on my phones browser vs. tethering my laptop for me to view the same damn sites via my laptop's browser?

    Why should I have to pay $20 a month on top of what I pay for an unlimited data plan if all I'm doing is surfing the same sites, or streaming pandora as I would be from my phone itself using the same damn connection?

    I'm not using my phone as my main ISP to all my devices at home. In fact, I even switch my phone to use my wifi when I'm at home.
     
  10. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert
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    and i am very much free to voice my opinion anyway...i dont think this type of info should be given out here anymore..


    yeah and people have been robbing banks since the beginning of banks...does that mean its cool for me to tell people how to break into the local bank's safe?...no...

    if they OP is savvy enough to know the current issues, he is more than savvy enough to search out the information...again...im all for helping people...these are probably the most friendly and helpful Android forums i've been on...

    but there has to be a line...


    absolutely

    data is NOT data...you have an unlimited data plan that pertains to your phone, and any other devices that are tied to that plan...

    by tethering you are connecting unauthorized devices to a service provided to you by Verizon...you are STEALING their services...period...

    your laptop is not an authorized user of Verizon's network...unless you pay for a tethering plan...and when you're tethering, now youre phone is using data...AND your laptop...adding more (unauthorized) strain on Verizon's network...

    because youre ILLEGALLY connecting an unauthorized device to someone else's property...Verizon OWNS that network...they make the rules, not you...not me...

    and you're not using the "same damn connection" because while yes, you are sharing your 3G connection with the laptop...and only browsing the sites on the laptop...but the phone is still connected...the phone is still syncing data, receiving emails, receiving messages, receiving phone calls...

    its not like when you tether the data connection to your phone shuts off and everything is transferred to the laptop...

    yeah and im not using the money i got from robbing a bank as my main source of income, but its still illegal...
     
  11. C0n57an71n3

    C0n57an71n3 Android Enthusiast
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    I haven't said anything on this subject minus my earlier comment, but I feel I need to point out that:

    A. It is well documented that "unlimited" is NOT unlimited. In the TOS.
    B. Data is data, yes - the amount is the problem. Phone < computer when it comes to usage.
    C. Whether you like it or not, Verizon owns this. Deal with it or switch.
    D. This isn't Cuba. Being a thief isn't going to fix the problem - people not paying for it (and NOT using it) will.
     
  12. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Okey dokey, gang - easy does it.

    I applaud all efforts at the education and outreach on this critical issue, especially at this critical time.

    In my opinion, best thing to do when things get so heated - per my sig - is to use the !Report button next to any problem post and let us try to help.

    Using our !Report button will get what you want done faster, your blood pressure will be lower, and I promise even your dog will look at you with new-found admiration. And if you don't have a dog, I promise mine will.

    So - as for the topic at hand, I think that it's like this:

    We want our forums to be a haven for sharing all safe info, in a polite manner.

    It's possible that there may be some good to wireless tethering _ability_ - such as in some emergency situation. I've faced those, twice, and have wirelessly tethered for a total of (what?) maybe 10 minutes in a year when I had no other choice at hand. (One example was to browse multiple hospital contact pages on my laptop so I could have them on-screen and make phone calls later (right after that) - and I'd have gladly paid and done the right set-up had I felt I had time to understand and go that route. I had no simultaneous voice+data at that time.)

    But there's never a good reason to violate your terms of service, and make things bad for yourself (and by extension, for others).

    Neither is there ever a good reason to try to get something for nothing. If a service you want is too expensive, there's an age-old way of dealing with that: do without.

    I'm going to leave this thread locked for a very short while for these ideas to take hold and for a cool-down, then I'll re-open for comments to what I've said.

    I don't pretend to be all knowing, so please pay attention to the last line in my sig - it's our forum - yours and mine.

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this matter.
     
  13. gmenfan83

    gmenfan83 Android Expert
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    i find it crazy that all of this and we have zero proof its true
     
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  14. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    In such a case, perhaps best to tread lightly as it may be true.

    I was intrigued by a post in the other thread.

    If wireless tethering clearly violates Verizon terms of service, then we as a forum may have to consider our responsibilities very, very carefully.
     
  15. gmenfan83

    gmenfan83 Android Expert
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    such is true ,,,im more or less talking about the bickering and assumptions ,its one thing to tread lightly and another to cast stones and condemn others as we have seen as of late
     
  16. twistedlim

    twistedlim Android Expert
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    Actually HI...larious! Nothing proven, no notices, releases. I personally think GB will be pushed on our phones and make it very difficult to tether. Not that it matters a twit to me. As long as I can run launcer pro they can give me froyo, gingerbread, chocolate wheat, hunny crunch or whatever they want. Quick clock is about the only reason I really want to root anyway. I could live without it though.

    This does make for some exciting fun on the forum. Wonder when all this news puts the OG droid owners?
     
  17. twistedlim

    twistedlim Android Expert
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    Quite true. It does any the forum should. Heck I wanted to get a copy of swype for my og droid and was threatened banning just for asking.
     
  18. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    Well, my opinion is, give each other a general amnesty for any past bickering.

    All of us have bad days once in a while, we all know that.

    Sometimes, outside influences conspire so when we all have a bad day on the same day, we sometimes turn against each other - instead of on the problem and the influences.

    So - I suggest just forgetting the negative, give it a pass, and decide how to move forward positively - because the issue is not going away.

    Not playing Dr. Phil here - I don't expect everyone to agree. I just hope to see the problem hammered out without people getting hammered out.

    And any of that people-hammering that's already happened - shake on it, let it pass, let's work the problem.

    That's just my opinion. Even so - I think it's a pretty good one. ;)
     
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  19. ECFfighter7232

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    one thing to consider about this though... A LOT of roms include the wireless tether apk in their roms.... so... if you have to start locking threads telling people how to wireless tether or ones that have questions about wireless tether, are you then also going to have to start locking threads with roms that include the apk?
    see where im going with that?
    just food for thought for those who said this forum shouldnt have threads about wireless tether because its illegal... most of us in this section are running (or have run) roms that included the wireless tether apk... so now you wont support that dev because he included the apk in his rom? they are contributing to the spread of allowing people to do an illegal activity?
    how many of you bought TBH app which allowed the possibility to hack the stock hotspot apk? a lot of people... whether you used it for that or not doesnt matter, you still bought it in support of TBH...
    just trying to shine a little light on the hypocrisy flying around in here is all

    just my .02
     
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  20. gmenfan83

    gmenfan83 Android Expert
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    +1 ,,i just want this community to go back to a place i enjoyed going again rather than being a headache the past few days and to be honest if i did not like lending a hand to folks with real issues and if this craziness did not pertain to me i would not be on right now ,,,all the nonsense would have def pushed me away as other forums have,,,,if i was an outsider looking in and just joined this forum sat night when all this dropped i would have took one look and never came back and it sucks to say that about a forum i love and respect so much but its the truth,overall though i totally agree with you :D
     
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  21. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    As you point out - these are not simple black and white issues. (Not sure that complexity rises to a charge of hypocrisy - that's just my opinion on that.)

    In any case, I'm in favor of moving very slowly and methodically on this.

    Haste makes waste.
     
  22. binary visions

    binary visions Android Expert
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    Wireless tethering is explicitly forbidden in the Data Plans Terms and Coditions:

     
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  23. binary visions

    binary visions Android Expert
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    Some additional thoughts:

    The existence of the wireless tether application is not a problem. It is not stealing from anyone. Technically it provides a place to steal service, but the web browser provides a place to download illegal applications, and the phone provides a place to make illegal/harassing phone calls, and any of a number of other apps provide a place to do illegal activities. Additionally, a user could pay for wireless tether and still prefer the services/performance of something like Wireless Tether or Barnacle or a similar app. Unlikely, but the point remains that the app itself is not illegal.

    What I do think, is that this forum should not encourage and support the use of these applications to circumvent Verizon's monthly billing. Really, no matter what the usage. EarlyMon, please take this respectfully - but your usage is a good example. Emergency usage, right? Less than 10mb. Except, as someone mentioned, if I don't buy a car, and suddenly need one, I don't get to hotwire a car out of the nearest Hertz Rent a Center and take it even though it's a short trip and it's for a good cause and I'll return it when I'm done.

    It's doubly bad because Verizon is doing this to themselves. Data is data, and if we paid based on usage instead of these dumb "unlimited" plans, people wouldn't have the ridiculous idea that an unlimited plan actually exists and that they're in their rights to use tethering without paying. Additionally, it'd be great to have an inexpensive day pass for tethering. However, that isn't our choice to make and we all sign a contract that says we won't tether - so if VZW isn't meeting our needs, we have the right to go elsewhere.

    Of course, this should all be said and handled respectfully - flaming isn't okay. However, I don't think it's unreasonable for tethering threads to be met with, "You need to pay Verizon for the tethering service and use the supported application." We can all make our individual decisions on whether it is moral or appropriate in certain scenarios. But if the forum guidelines are that we only support what is legal, tethering isn't in there.
     
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  24. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
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    I'm not a lawyer, but my work includes a lot of working with lawyers.

    So - I'd first like to mention - isn't it true if you violate a contract that that's a civil matter?

    If I'm right on that, then I'd like to call people back from the ledge of charging others with illegal activities - civil and criminal matters are different, are they not?

    Any lawyers in the house, or decent students with a few law courses, or anyone else, want to comment on that idea?

    I do know that there's quite a bit of common sense in the law - for example, it's ok to read the above like this:

    While it's easy to believe what that means, I gotta ask as a non-lawyer - what does that mean?

    Not to get off-topic, but seriously - they really make an assumption about the use of the word tether there.

    We know what it means in the context of getting free internet - but the way that's worded - doesn't that mean that you can't even use apps like PlayOn (already shown to be legal for copyright purposes) and if I'm understanding "Wireless Sync" then it seems that contract might be on thin ice anyways.

    Not trying to stir the pot, but I just think they're sure not making it easy for lay people to totally get all that might be implied there...

    In any case, first point stands on its own merits - I don't think it's illegal to violate a contract. Immoral, probably, actionable, definitely - but not really illegal.

    Open for corrections if I'm missing something.

    Can't see any argument there - except for the part that we don't condone fraud, rather than tethering being illegal.

    PS - Nods to Kevmueller for bringing this aspect of things to my attention.
     
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  25. eraursls1984

    eraursls1984 Android Expert
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    I'm not saying that your wrong but I've flashed almost every Rom and haven't seen any that came with a tether apk, I think one did have the 3g hotspot with the hack but that's it. I haven't ran every version of every Rom but I have ran a few versions of every Rom except for maybe 2 or 3
     

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