NextElect Obama Countdown

[dredg]

A+ thread. Would read again

 

[gmermel]

People that think universal healthcare is a good system or free are the same people that think they can reason with terrorists.

No not necessarily. People who think that care for the uninsured (and those illegals the repubs are all hot about) doesn't get paid for someway somehow are the ones that don't get it. I certainly don't think you can reason with terrorists.

The point is the cost of care is getting covered somehow, and an important place is YOUR health insurance dollars. IF we refused to treat those people without insurance your argument would be sound. But we don't. They get care whether or not they pay for it. Eliminating the ability of companies to deny coverage AND finding a way to REIMBURSE the system for the care of the currently uninsured does what insurance should: It spreads the costs accross the many.

 

[gmermel]

How much of your monthly pay check comes out for NHS? Out of mine I pay my own health insurance, and Medicare/Medicade (socialist plot to keep the 'unfortunate' voting for the democrat party...)
He just don't get it, and neither do you.

You don't get it. Health care costs money (so do wars). It gets paid for somewhere/how, and that is going to be from those that has. Glad you feel so "privileged" as to not care for the unfortunates. If that's the case, go to your tea party and demand that we legislate health care such that it is only provided to those with insurance/cash. You can't make the health care system provide by edict, yet refuse to pay for the resulting unreimbursed cost....

 

[gmermel]

Health care costs money (so do wars).

BTW, you know that Iraq war? It cost almost exactly as much as that bail-out did at the time it was funded ($700+ billion). I don't recall that comparison ever being made and yet the bail-out is all that gets the attention from the right wing.

Oh, and the estimate on the health care plan for the next 10 years is in the neighborhood of the Iraq war's cost. Just think, we could have funded health care AND the bail-out, and if we'd never bothered with Iraq have broken even......,

 

[Ling-Ling]

I'm happy that I don't live in america. Okay germany is not the best choice either but at least there are few people here who believe in this "our country is the chosen country, we have to bring our capitalistic democracy to everyone"-bullshit. Obama isn't that good and he won't change the US for what they are, but he is sure as hell better then those apes that were leading the country before...

And tbh everyone who thinks the iraq or afghanistan war is justified, should think about that after reading the statistics about the uprising of warlords, heroin smuggling and so on since we(USA, NATO,...) are occupying those countries.

 

[rcyphermd]

I have a hero and cannot find this app. Suggestions?

 

[hrbib21]

BTW, you know that Iraq war? It cost almost exactly as much as that bail-out did at the time it was funded ($700+ billion). I don't recall that comparison ever being made and yet the bail-out is all that gets the attention from the right wing.

Oh, and the estimate on the health care plan for the next 10 years is in the neighborhood of the Iraq war's cost. Just think, we could have funded health care AND the bail-out, and if we'd never bothered with Iraq have broken even......,

"Estimate" is the key word there. No government program ever comes in anywhere close to the "estimate". Democrats are playing with the numbers by collecting taxes beginning immediately for a program that won't begin until 2013, conveniently after the next presidential election (I wonder why...). Which brings up another question: If it is so imperative to give "healthcare to everyone", why will it take another 3 years minimum? I thought people were dying every day due to lack of insurance? Sure seems like the party in charge doesn't care much about them, huh?

The cost of government run healthcare will also overrun the middle class with taxes. Don't believe me? Check the tax rates in the nations that have socialized medicine.

 

[hrbib21]

I'm happy that I don't live in america. Okay germany is not the best choice either but at least there are few people here who believe in this "our country is the chosen country, we have to bring our capitalistic democracy to everyone"-bullshit. Obama isn't that good and he won't change the US for what they are, but he is sure as hell better then those apes that were leading the country before...

And tbh everyone who thinks the iraq or afghanistan war is justified, should think about that after reading the statistics about the uprising of warlords, heroin smuggling and so on since we(USA, NATO,...) are occupying those countries.

I'll take drugs in place of terrorism any day when it comes to exports from the middle east.

Our country IS the best place to live on earth. Or are all the people coming here illegally from all over the globe wrong?

 

[hrbib21]

You don't get it. Health care costs money (so do wars). It gets paid for somewhere/how, and that is going to be from those that has. Glad you feel so "privileged" as to not care for the unfortunates. If that's the case, go to your tea party and demand that we legislate health care such that it is only provided to those with insurance/cash. You can't make the health care system provide by edict, yet refuse to pay for the resulting unreimbursed cost....

What is your definition of "the unfortunates"? If you say "disabled", I'm with you. But I have a feeling you're talking about everyone without health insurance which would include illegals and those too lazy to provide for themselves while leeching off of the rest of us. I'm not with you there.

 

[Ling-Ling]

The cost of government run healthcare will also overrun the middle class with taxes. Don't believe me? Check the tax rates in the nations that have socialized medicine.

germany speaking here. The tax rate is fine, but imo it could be higher in the rich class Still you earn more than enough!

 

[hrbib21]

By "your" problem" I meant it will at some point come home to YOUR roost, not that you have to fix it FOR HIM. You may be right about reading your policy, but it is in those policies you will find what is NOT covered. Those claims are, again, the ones that will murder you're budget. Do you know an outpatient Knee 'scope costs above $6000? That may be routinely covered, but what about the real stuff, an open heart operation at $40,000 or more, a stroke with rehab at double that.
Tort reform is important, and I wish there was much in the plan about that. But coverage is MORE important so I have set my priorities accordingly.
2 questions: How old are you/your family, and what claims are we referring to in your case? My bike wreck resulted in a $160,000 bill for a week's stay WITHOUT having any surgery. I was "young" and healthy at the time (2002). I trust, and hope, your kids claims were for a broken wrist at worst and not leukemia, where you might exceed your limit BEFORE the marrow transplant.......

Reading your policy would mean you know what you are covered for in the event of that bike wreck or other unforeseen circumstance. Do you think you deserve to be covered for flood insurance on your home if you didn't pay for it and never bothered to read your policy in advance? How about a car you own and you chose not to pay for comprehensive/collision and you total it? Should I or anyone else pay your bills then because you chose not to cover yourself?

Yes, health ins. is expensive, I agree, but that's where tort reform and real competition such as what you see in a free market, not a government run one, brings down cost. That along with tort reform brings costs down. Ask any medical provider what their biggest cost is and I promise you they will say malpractice insurance.

My family includes my mother, aunt, and grandmother who have all had cancer treatment that was paid for as stated in their employer sponsored insurance policies. I had back surgery in 2005 with many services leading up to it such as nerve blocks and physical therapy, all paid for as expected. I have a 1 year old daughter, all services paid as stated in our policy documents.

I don't know your situation but I do know that in the event of a motor vehicle accident, subrogation can be an issue and takes time to straighten out. This is certainly one area that needs to looked at.

In

 

[hrbib21]

germany speaking here. The tax rate is fine, but imo it could be higher in the rich class Still you earn more than enough!

Who are you to determine who earns "more than enough"?

 

[gmermel]

Let me try again: Health care is provided to EVERYONE, insured or not. It can NOT be refused. Society is ALREADY paying for it. If it's not figured in your taxes right now, it IS being figured in your personal health care costs.

I'd rather set it up so that everyone gets treatment as they currently do, but any individual struck with a catastrophic illnesss, and heaven forbid, ASSETS (meaning stuff for "them" to go after when you can't pay your bills anymore). Because your life will be ruined. Oh, I guess it's OK because then you can go to any ER and get care. You might be living in your car but can take solace i n the fact that you, being "unfortunate", are now being paid for by those working stiffs......

 

[wodin6]

What is your definition of "the unfortunates"? If you say "disabled", I'm with you. But I have a feeling you're talking about everyone without health insurance which would include illegals and those too lazy to provide for themselves while leeching off of the rest of us. I'm not with you there.

I'm all for national healthcare for those that work and pay taxes. I agree that the only people that deserve healthcare just for being alive are those that are disabled...and maybe veterans. If you serve the country for less money than you would make in the private sector, you should get a perk.

As for other countries with NHC already, good for you. I wish I was there. I pay $120 a month for insurance I don't use (I'm young and generally healthy) and still pay a ridiculous amount of taxes. While $120 is manageable and by no means am I complaining, but I'd rather pay a few percent higher in taxes than worry about changing jobs, school, etc and losing that coverage.

What you all need to realize is that it isn't (only) the insurance companies that are the problem. The drug companies and medical device companies contribute to the problem. If prescription drugs didn't cost $50 a pill without insurance, it wouldn't be such an issue. A generic form of most drugs cost less than half. That half must be still profitable otherwise they wouldn't sell it. Sure the original company has to put money into R&D, but many drugs are just minor changes from a previous drug.

The real solution would be the government buying patents off of companies that create devices or drugs that would benefit mankind. The government would be able to sell them at a slight profit, not raising our taxes, and therefore pay for more devices. The R&D would still be profitable and we'd all benefit.

But what do I know, I'm a fascist. btw, I'm not going to get into the Fascism argument.

 

[TheBrit]

Wow - this thread is real flame-bait!

 

[Bigjohn]

No not necessarily. People who think that care for the uninsured (and those illegals the repubs are all hot about) doesn't get paid for someway somehow are the ones that don't get it. I certainly don't think you can reason with terrorists.

The point is the cost of care is getting covered somehow, and an important place is YOUR health insurance dollars. IF we refused to treat those people without insurance your argument would be sound. But we don't. They get care whether or not they pay for it. Eliminating the ability of companies to deny coverage AND finding a way to REIMBURSE the system for the care of the currently uninsured does what insurance should: It spreads the costs accross the many.

Those folks care is only covered - i.e. forced on us all - by GOVERNMENT MANDATES.

If hospitals were allowed to check for citizenship and / or ability to pay *(i.e. run like any other business)*, health costs in this country would drop like a stone. People (thanks government schools...) go to the emergency room for a cold!

I say "emergency care only". If you're hurt, and you can't pay, fine - we fix you up... but if you're here illegally, we also put you back where you belong....

Every "Poor person" is already covered by medicaid... so get rid of the illegals, enact tort reform, and (oh my!) teach people to be responsible for their decisions (i.e. if you do CRACK, it's not my responsibilty to pay for your health care...), and we'd be in great shape.

John

 

[wodin6]

Those folks care is only covered - i.e. forced on us all - by GOVERNMENT MANDATES.

If hospitals were allowed to check for citizenship and / or ability to pay *(i.e. run like any other business)*, health costs in this country would drop like a stone. People (thanks government schools...) go to the emergency room for a cold!

I say "emergency care only". If you're hurt, and you can't pay, fine - we fix you up... but if you're here illegally, we also put you back where you belong....

Every "Poor person" is already covered by medicaid... so get rid of the illegals, enact tort reform, and (oh my!) teach people to be responsible for their decisions (i.e. if you do CRACK, it's not my responsibilty to pay for your health care...), and we'd be in great shape.

John

While I agree with much you have said, I disagree that health costs would drop like a stone if hospitals *checked* to see if you could pay.

First of all, how do you do that? Do you require them to pay for the treatment before hand? What about when there is something serious that needs to be addressed, say in surgery? Pause surgery and ask the patient for more money? Call their insurance company to see if the next step is covered? I know, these cases would be rare compared to others, but you cannot ignore them.

Second, do you honestly believe that hospitals would cut their fees in half just because their costs were cut in half? Money corrupts the minds of almost all humans. If they saw the chance to drop the fees 10% to make people happy, yet still retain %40 as pure profit, they would. The appeal for higher salaries, newer equipment, retirement, whatever, would be too great.

Change will only happen when people realize that band-aiding problems will not work and that only revolutionary changes will succeed. The whole system must be changed, not just who pays the bill.

 

[rcyphermd]

where do I find this app for the hero?

 

[Bigjohn]

You don't get it. Health care costs money (so do wars). It gets paid for somewhere/how, and that is going to be from those that has. Glad you feel so "privileged" as to not care for the unfortunates. If that's the case, go to your tea party and demand that we legislate health care such that it is only provided to those with insurance/cash. You can't make the health care system provide by edict, yet refuse to pay for the resulting unreimbursed cost....

You don't have a RIGHT to health care if you can't pay for it yourself, any more than you have a right to a Plasma TV you can't afford.

If you have a mobile phone, flat screen TV, laptop, etc;, but don't have money for health care, your brain is F'd up.

A right by definition DOES NOT take from or infringe on any other person. Taking my money to pay your doctor bill because you spent all your money on a Prada purse, well, that's either THEFT or imposed slavery.

 

[yankeeboy]

I don't understand that you pay a premium and you still have to fork out $2000.

Exactly.

Listen all....let's just all agree that the current system sucks and the proposed system sucks, however, we should all agree that at a minimum we need to do something for the people that cant afford it.

For the person that stated "I work hard and am happy with my insurance" - well, your just plain stupid. I work hard too - and have seen the benefits that used to be free for myself and my wife go up to $2700 per year pre-tax - still not bad, but not free. I have seen $5 co-pays go to $25, and my rockstar, phone company provided health insurance denied a claim for my wife's psoriasis because she had it before I worked there.

Is the current bill what we need....NOOOOOO. Let congress fight it out and come up with a common middle ground. I have the unique perspective in that I sit squarely in the middle - I want less taxes, but I want to get more for my money too.

You have to admit, the guy has a ton of good ideas, some not so great ideas - but he has the gumption to get as much of his ideas to the floor - more than I can say for Bush/Clinton/Bush Jr....he literally has taken office inheriting 2 un-winnable wars, the worst economic climate since the 1920's and the highest unemployment since the 80's, the public policies and horrid international relations of the Bush-wick era and an out of control Wall Street sorrily in need of regulation...AND homes worth 25% - 50% of their value just a few years ago....in HIS FIRST YEAR, he has put policy in place to combat the credit card industry (which has proved to be hasty - but over a long period of time, could be effective), he passed a massive healthcare bill through the house and senate - which has been attempted many times and failed, he pulled some troops out of Iraq, sent more into Afghanistan, has been on an international relations improvement mission or two, cut exorbitant executive pay, bailed out (and got paid back + juice) all of the countries largest banks, stabilized AIG to the point that they are 2 years from solvency and we will be paid back + juice. He also tried, but failed to stabilize the housing market, instituted cash for clunkers (which ultimately made dealerships busy for a few months), received the Nobel Peace Prize (for whatever reason) as the first sitting wartime President in forever - and shocked all of you right wingers with a great speech about achieving peace with violence....pretty active now that you look back, huh?

What comes to mind from the Bush era was a flawed election win, an amazingly coordinated reaction to 9/11, about 2 years of trying to somehow link Iraq to 9/11, failing to prove Nukes were there, pulling the important troops out of Afg, letting the Taliban re-take over the country, the most embarrassing reaction to a public disaster ever in the history of the world with Katrina and countless idiotic moments caught on videotape - even a pretzel choking and a VP that shot his hunting partner in the a$$.

So, he's not perfect, but he is trying with all his might to make what he believes will make the country better happen...I'm at least willing to see what he can do.

Apps that countdown to the end of Obama or bumper stickers that say NoBoma are just fodder for the idiots and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

So.....anyone hear the Nexus One came out today?

 

[yankeeboy]

A right by definition DOES NOT take from or infringe on any other person. Taking my money to pay your doctor bill because you spent all your money on a Prada purse, well, that's either THEFT or imposed slavery.

So, should you have a right to free speech if all that comes out of your mouth is diarrhea? It is infringing on my right to be happy and free of listening to stupid comments like this. What about 'gmermel's posting suggested that people were out buying Prada purses and not health insurance?

 

[TheBrit]

Let's hear it for the Nexus One!

 

[yankeeboy]

let's hear it for the nexus one!

yay!

 

[wodin6]

Let's hear it for the Nexus One!

what's that?

 

[yankeeboy]

what's that?

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