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no disaster relief without spending cuts?

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by noah way, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Martimus

    Martimus One bite at a time...
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    The contract I worked under had similar challenges, though I'm not a believer in the letter of the law. As such my team exceeded the terms of our contract. On the downside, the chief of the local Army DOIM (Directorate of Information Management) used to periodically bend my ear when we went above and beyond our expectations.

    I remember one occasion soon after joining that contract when I was over at the telecom branch. The base had a Meridien SL100 telephone switch and I made the mistake of asking the CO Tech if I could watch him as he troubleshooted a problem. Two hours later I was sitting in an office getting yelled at by the head of the telecom branch and the DOIM chief (both Federal civilians). Seems they took offense at my interest in a technology system not part of my companies contract... Oops! :eek:
     

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  2. noah way

    noah way Android Enthusiast
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    Tax breaks are a type of subsidy.
     
  3. JRich8389

    JRich8389 Member
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    I wish the civilians here would be half as interested in learning new things as you. We use a lot of tactical transmission pieces that come with pre-configured templates for the routers/switches. I tried to get the civilian network admin here to become familiar with them since half of our network problems come from those devices and he just ignored me and said "Tactical gear isn't my responsibility." I about smacked him...

    Who is paying us to blow things up? Or to rebuild it for that matter?

    The only no-bid contract I'm familiar with is Blackwater but that was only in Iraq and they were a bunch of bullying morons....
     
  4. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member
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    No noah, they aren't. Please explain the specific subsidy, in your opinion, that they receive. Last I checked, not a single tax dollar of mine is being given to any oil company.
     
  5. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    Or . . .

    One could argue that it is up to you to read what you sign and not blame the company from not covering whatever is on "part 1, sub section b, 4 line."
     
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  6. OutofDate1980

    OutofDate1980 Android Expert
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    They are both tax expenditures.
     
  7. nlsme

    nlsme Android Expert
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    So it is safe to assume you read every 1500 page book you get on your accounts?
     
  8. noah way

    noah way Android Enthusiast
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    The US taxpayer of course, on behalf of the military industrial complex and the oil companies.
     
  9. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member
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    So anyone keeping part of their earnings thanks to this benevolent gov't is now a tax expenditure. Ok, got it. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  10. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    You know . . . before you say we need to change the tax code, you might want to do a little self-education. You will find that the bottom 50% or so do not pay a cent in federal income taxes. And you will discover that the very top of the heap pay far more than their share. The top one percent carry much of the burden.

    And those people generally create jobs. I have never, ever been hired by the poor.

    You do not want the rules changed so it is fair. If it were fair, the poor would pay for the services they now get for free.
     
  11. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert
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    Never got a 1500 page book. And yes, I read almost everything I sign.
    What I do not understand is explained by those with my interests at heart. The things I refuse to read and parsed by experts and they let me know what is what.

    Regardless, if you sign something it is up to you to know what you are signing.
     
  12. OutofDate1980

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    noah way likes this.
  13. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member
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    Here, maybe this will help clarify things.

    Oil companies get tax breaks. Wind and solar get tax subsidies. See the difference??

    One of these entities can survive without either and pass the cost onto their customers, one of them cannot.

    I believe in free markets. That certainly doesn't make me a Republican. It makes me a little "r" republican.
     
  14. keale18

    keale18 Member
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    Tax Bracket Single Married Filing Jointly Head of Household 10% Bracket $0
     
  15. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member
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    keale, you can't compare the economy of the 50's and today by only using tax rates as your argument. Back then we didn't have the debt as a nation and as a people as we do today. We also don't manufacture goods the way we did back in the 50's either.

    Jobs aren't being created for a multitude of reasons, the current tax rate isn't one of them. I wouldn't object to a tax increase, but there would have to be significant cuts across the board. There also should be no more printing of money and interest rates need to be allowed to rise.

    In other words, we need a full blown recession to help fix this economy. Keeping prices artificially high and the continuous attempts to re-inflate the bubble will not work.
     
  16. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert
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    But a full blown recession would hurt millions of people!
    One of them destroys the environment too, lest you forget
     
  17. keale18

    keale18 Member
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    The premise is that taxing job creators at a higher rate kills job growth. How so? Im not unreasonable show me data that connects lower tax rates with increased job creation i have yet to see anything that connects the two. Look at any era in the last 50 years pre bush 2. Theres no precedent to support that assertion. Can you be over taxed? Sure you can but we sure as hell aint at that point particularly for the very wealthy.
     
  18. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member
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    EN, we need to let the markets sort themselves out. Propping up a sick economy will hurt more people for a longer period of time. We need to go through the pain and then move on.

    And as far as the environment goes, maybe you haven't heard:

    Energy In America: Dead Birds Unintended Consequence Of Wind Power Development | FoxNews.com

    "Wind power is the fastest growing component in the state's green energy portfolio, but wildlife advocates say the marriage has an unintended consequence: dead birds, including protected species of eagles, hawks and owls."

    Ooooops. So now if we aren't killing caribou in ANWAR, we're killing eagles in CA. Why don't we just forget this whole energy thing and go back to the stone ages.
     
  19. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert
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    Eh.. leave the markets sort themselves out... that's lunacy - we see what happens in unregulated markets

    Regarding the birds thing, I've hear it before and it's one of many problems with Wind Power, but we can't just keep pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and people moan about nuclear power.
     
  20. keale18

    keale18 Member
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    Its going to take a multi pronged approach from wind, solar, nuclear, as well as emerging technologies. Theres no magic bullet right now so until we can find a good single alternative this is the best approach. The goal being to lessen our dependance on oil and fossil fuels something that should have started 30 years ago.
     
  21. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, we don't know what really happens in an unregulated market since we haven't had one in over 100 years. The closest you might come to that would be New Zealand, and you know what? Their banking system is just fine. So I don't know where you come from, but I have never seen the free market work here. What I see is all these regulated entities choking off free markets.

    The trouble is we are being taught to think like Keynesians when we should be thinking like Austrians. The depression no one has heard about in 1920, ended in 18 months. Want to know why??? Because the free market was allowed to work and correct itself.

    And global warming is quickly being relegated to junk science, so the CO2 argument holds no water with me.
     
  22. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert
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    the NZ financial sector had so many watchdogs they had to consolidate them :p don't know what NZ your talking about :rolleyes:
    When you Dint regulate people they do stupid things for short term benefit. There is a good reason for regulation and you see the damage when companies are allowed do whatever (child labour, sub-prime, stupid financial instruments, air/car/sea accidents etc)
    What's junk science? Because AGW has the support of 97-98% of climate scientists, has been studied for decades and the people who say its bad science of always dumb, greedy, conservative or just plain bad
     
  23. keale18

    keale18 Member
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    Regulations are there for a reason. To this point every time you let the free market do its thing which is make money it was bad juju. This economic downturn as the latest example of that.

    That being said not all regulations may be good or correct and should be looked at and possibly changed or removed. Kinda tough to do that though since the current republican mantra is cut everything consequences be damned.

    This notion that regulations are evil and this free market non sense is tea party baloney. Somalia is a true free market would you like to do business there? There needs to be a balance.

    Now for your last point on GW despite the fact that there are multiple lines of evidence that point to AGW with scientists from around the world in many countries that have examined this evidence and have come to the same conslusion that AGW is real your going to call it junk science? Okey Dokey. How do you explain that? Perhaps you should write a paper and submit it in a peer reviewed scientific journal so you can turn the scientific world on its ear exposing this "junk science". Could the all be wrong? Sure but your going to have do some explaining to show us why its as you say junk science.
     
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  24. mike114

    mike114 Well-Known Member
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    Name one example of the free market "doing it's thing" as you put it without any type of regulation.

    And while you're at it, how about you explain how these regulations will help the economy recover??

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/30/obama-proposed-regulations-would-cost-1-billion/

    "All told, the seven proposed rules cited by Mr. Obama would cost companies at least $38 billion per year and could cost as much as $100 billion annually."
     
  25. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert
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    Improved air quality is important for human health and the environment for one, as is improving Ozone standards, no?
    You can't keep putting these kind of improvements off, the environment doesn't stop during a recession

    Also, where do these estimates come from?
     

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