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no sshd? no telnet? no terminal emulator? It's a disappointing first Android (viewsonic v350)

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by smurfOnE, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. smurfOnE

    smurfOnE Well-Known Member
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    Having a way to connect to the device is fundamental. The v350 came with no means to connect to the device!

    :mad:

    I can tolerate the glitchy apps, but if I cannot connect to the device, things cannot be worked on. Are most Android phones deficient in this respect?

    So I had to give up my stance on privacy and create a google account (I don't like the data disclosure and sharing that goes on with google). Then the sshd tools either cost money (which links your identity to the data profile google tracks you with), or it's advertisement-infused. Yes, there is actually an sshd tool with ads. :eek:

    Then I installed the Android terminal emulator. The piece of crap assumes you have a hardware keyboard, and the "toggle soft keyboard" option is broken.

    The system upgrade feature is disabled! I was hoping I could upgrade in hopes that a means to connect to the device would be inherent in recent releases.

    How do I get this thing out of jail?
     

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  2. !on

    !on Android Expert
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    You got a google phone but didn't want google?

    Does your phone not have USB?

    I seem to remember having to jailbreak & download SSH for my ipod touch, Android doesn't come with this pre-installed either (it has USB!). Maybe if you have problem with an app, try another? I can see various results by typing "SSH" into appbrain search.

    If by "system upgrade feature" you mean the OTA firmware updater in the phone, then it's pretty standard that networks don't really like to push updates that way, or if they do we have to wait loooooooong time. Try going on the website of your manufacturer, they might have an update that works on PC via USB.
     
  3. smurfOnE

    smurfOnE Well-Known Member
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    That's the short of it. The long of it is that I was after a multi-sim phone with Debian, and the v350 is as close as it gets.

    Yes, but same problem as wifi. The connectivity is there, but no tools. Getting a command shell over USB would require a driver on the host and on the phone, which was not supplied.

    The only sshd implementations I've found are ad-ware, or cost extra. Although it's linux, it's more like running Windows. Folks put a lot of effort into creating sshd for linux and charged nothing, then someone comes along and charges a fee for the trivial effort of wrapping it with an Android installer.

    I'm not impressed. I hope one day Debian will be ported to some multisim phones, so I can simply type "aptitude install sshd", for example.
     
  4. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Android Expert
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    I'm confused by what you're looking for. You want a full featured SSHD tool, but you don't want to pay for it with money or with ads? Also you want a Google phone, but you don't want to have to link it to a Google account? I'm afraid that neither of these wants is particularly reasonable.

    Devs expect to be compensated in some way for their work. I don't think that's unreasonable. Google requires a Google account the same way Apple requires an iTunes account. Neither of these are unreasonable demands at all.
     
  5. smurfOnE

    smurfOnE Well-Known Member
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    Indeed. Do a search on "Debian". It's a fully-featured OS. Hundreds of lines of code, all for free (and freedom to modify it), and it's fully featured and not a single advertizement. Then search "aptitude install ssh". You'll see that you can have a fully-featured ssh server implementation for no cost, and not a single ad.

    That's not exactly what I said. I do not want to have personally identifiable information all connected and traced back to me, so google knows what and where I eat, where I live, who I associate with, who employs me, where I bank, who's my doctor, who's my lawyer, who I call, what my IP address is, etc, all in a database ripe for exploitation. There are several ways to mitigate the intrusion, and I'm not sure where you get the idea that one must not run Android at all in order to achieve privacy. AFAIK, the data collection is done with the apps, not the kernel.

    You need to have a look at a paper called "the cathedral and the bizaare". You're thinking like Gates (the "cathedral" way of thinking).

    If I add 5-10 lines of code to a project with 10k sloc to improve my personal self-serving experience, I certainly do not expect monetary compensation. In fact, to expect compensation for contributions to a GNU project is unreasonable if I weren't hired to do the work. If every GNU developer were to start demanding compensation, it would kill the delicate balance that OSS depends on. It would offset everything that makes it attractive, not the least of which is to discourage developers themselves (who would then have to pay before making contributions).

    What's going on with these GNU apps is a huge effort goes into these free tools, and then someone comes along and puts shrink wrap on them and expects compensation -- and they expect compensation without passing any of the rewards on to the developers who did the real work. Despite being a free market, of course this is very disproportionate and quite unreasonable. This is why maemo and the n8xx and n9xx trump Android OS - because that kind of crap (from what I'll call "scalpers") does not happen on the maemo platform.

    I'm not interested in paying the scalper. I'm interested in ways to circumvent the scalper. I want to make sure that every dime goes to those who did the significant work (via donations), and not a penny for those trying to profit from someone elses work.

    BTW, that's just my general stance. But for SSH in particular, I expect the manufacturer to put basic fundamental functionality in place at whatever price it costs them. They don't have to include 500 apps - that's crap. But I expect to at least be able to connect to the device.

    Viewsonic neglected tools as essential as sshd, but then they loaded crap on there like a facebook app.
     
  6. John Redcorn

    John Redcorn Android Enthusiast
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    OP I'm going to have to agree with you a lot unless someone can change my mind or correct me where I'm wrong. I'm no coder at all and fairly new to android but a long time linux/gnu/oss user. Full OSes for phone and desktop, android itself, enterprise-class virtualization, db, httpd, and on and on, all available for free. I really don't see either how one could have what I see as the arrogance to expect money (from purchases or ads) just for porting someone else's work over to another platform when it's been free since forever.

    And even inside the android dev scene, why is a huge undertaking like cyanogen with a lot of original new code and features given away for free but sshd, almost completely someone else's code no?


    Unless the porting to that other platform just clouds ones judgment when that other platform happens to have an iphone-like form factor. Yeah it looks like an iphone and yeah iphone people pay for stuff but they knew from the start they were getting into a closed completely-corporate system.

    Although, on the other side of the coin, I don't work for free. Also I can see where if I was wanting sshd (or some other what we think of as a really common *nix server or package) on my phone that's running a really young OS that it might not have been done yet, it would be a fairly low-interest package for most and if it were done, even by someone whose, what I see, as intentions of profiting from others work I didn't agree with I might spend the few dollars to have it now and hope that when the Os gets more mature we'll have more devs with gnu/sourceforge/cyanogen/etc type attitudes
     
  7. John Redcorn

    John Redcorn Android Enthusiast
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    Also, pretend we're talking completely about computers, if I showed a friend some things I could do with sshd on my linux server box (I do use windows for desktops) but he didn't want to run linux or setup a separate box and wanted sshd on windows. I would laugh my balls off if I saw ads popping up from his system tray sshd icon. Hell, why not have text ads sent to the remote term too?
     
  8. !on

    !on Android Expert
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    I think the OP wants jailbroken ipod touch or iphone.

    Re: ads, well we all acknowledge devs gotta eat! But some people feel they are having rusty forks thrust into their eyes by them. Others just ignore it ;).

    Is this another thinly veiled Apple attack on Android?
     

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