1. Download our Official Android App: Forums for Android!

Support Pentile dispay?

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by ayrshiredude, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. ayrshiredude

    ayrshiredude Well-Known Member
    Thread Starter
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    36
    Posts:
    167
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010

    Mar 16, 2010
    167
    7
    36
    Can I ask a silly question? whats this pentile display
     

    Advertisement

    DisplayGeek likes this.
  2. DisplayGeek

    DisplayGeek Newbie
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    33
    Posts:
    14
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2010

    Jul 8, 2010
    14
    57
    33
    CEO of Nouvoyance
    Wine Country
    I'm glad you asked !! :)

    PenTile Display technology is simply the best invention since Terry Scheffer invented the Super Twisted Nematic (STN) Liquid Crystal mode. OK, so I'm biased. Full disclosure, I'm one of the inventors of the technology. :cool:

    The short answer is that it is a combination of Subpixel Rendering (SPR) and specific novel arrangements of subpixels that are optimized to work together to increase the information efficiency of the subpixels in color flat panel displays. For example, present PenTile layouts, such as now commercially available for OLEDs, only require two subpixels per pixel, on average, to provide a given resolution. Or, one my think of it as having 50% higher resolution for a given number of subpixels. (glass half full vs. half empty)

    Some layouts in the PenTile Matrix family are even more efficient, for example, allowing 1.25 subpixels per pixel in one case shown on the wikipedia SPR page. And one layout, disclosed in a recently published patent application, can in theory, do one half subpixel (0.5) per pixel on average! So, PenTile technology is still improving.

    A fuller description of PenTile Technology may be found at the Nouvoyance website: Nouvoyance You may wish to click on the technology section and even the whitepapers section.

    You may also wish to visit the wikipedia pages on subpixel rendering and the PenTile Matrix family of layouts:

    Subpixel rendering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    PenTile matrix family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    drexappeal, Shocky and pkulak like this.
  3. EarlZ

    EarlZ Android Enthusiast
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    285
    Joined:
    May 13, 2010

    May 13, 2010
    285
    11
    38
    I think I've read some where that the Pentile is like having 50% lesser real resolution as opposed to 50% more and it has a pretty bad TEXT quality compared to RGB and really poor gray colors ( as seen on the Samsung Wave, Galaxy S and Nexus One ) but it does boost the quality of photos and movies compared to regular RGB.

    Based on my personal experience the gray levels on the Wave is pretty bad you can actually see other colors on the shade of gray and text quality is pretty feathery on the Samsung Wave, on the Galaxy S i dont own the phone yet so my personal experience with a demo unit does not count.
     
  4. DisplayGeek

    DisplayGeek Newbie
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    33
    Posts:
    14
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2010

    Jul 8, 2010
    14
    57
    33
    CEO of Nouvoyance
    Wine Country
    First, the new kid on the block gets blamed for everything that is presented on the screen?

    You may have "heard" something, but that doesn't make it true.

    Those color problems have nothing to do with PenTile. They are created inside of the cell phone software due to excessive quantization (bit truncation) before the data reaches the PenTile processor. The PenTile processor takes in eight bits operates on the data at eleven bits and puts out eight bits true, with two bits of dither, so that that SPR is in essence outputting ten bit data. This ensures that the color the panel is given is the color the panel puts out.

    Did you know that tens of thousands of PenTile OLED panels were in cellphones all over the world, for over a year, before anyone noticed? If you have to be told that they are different before you notice... well... To me, that tells me that they work just fine.

    About the resolution. Please read this white paper on how resolution is actually measured and how the PenTile OLED really does meet the VESA Specification (THE one and ONLY industry specification on resolution measurement!):

    http://www.nouvoyance.com/files/pdf/CV%20Application%20Note%20Measuring%20Display%20Resolution%20RGB%20L6%2012-17-07.pdf

    Those that claim that PenTile is not "true" resolution are confusing the conventional RGB Stripe limitation of six subpixels per vertically oriented black&white line pair as giving a shorthand method of "counting dots" to determine resolution. "Dot Counting" only works for conventional, non-subpixel-rendered, color displays.

    The text quality is quite readable, which is the material point. The only real complaint I've heard is that some people have been viewing the PenTile panel up close, some with magnifiers (!) and note that it "looks weird". Well? If one is used to looking at one kind of display, legacy RGB Stripe, with its own set of very distinctive, and quite unnatural artifacts, then look at another, unfamiliar display, with its own set of very distinctive artifacts, then one may leap to the wrong conclusion and say that the new one is "wrong". Neither is "wrong", they are just both different from one another. If viewed from the normal expected viewing distance, the PenTile Panel will present the same image as a legacy RGB Stripe panel to the eye. They will look very similar, though not identical... as I said before, the legacy RGB Stripe is *not* itself perfect, nor should one use it as a reference standard.

    Anyone remember what text looked like on CRTs? Anyone remember the complaints that LCD text looked "jaggy" compared to the then "standard" appearance of text on the CRT? The same thing is now happening with PenTile vs. RGB Stripe.
     
    pkulak likes this.
  5. Markiz

    Markiz Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    36
    Posts:
    132
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010

    Jan 17, 2010
    132
    3
    36
    im sure that for everday use, pentile will be ok. but how do you then explain droid being much better at displaying text?
     
  6. EarlZ

    EarlZ Android Enthusiast
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    285
    Joined:
    May 13, 2010

    May 13, 2010
    285
    11
    38
    @DisplayGeek

    I didnt bother reading your entire wall of text but I should refer you to another thread w/c actually provides more information compared to a wall of text ( no offense ) and I would like to see you rebut on this http://androidforums.com/860842-post7.html
     
  7. Evil Peter

    Evil Peter Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    151
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010

    Jun 1, 2010
    151
    11
    38
    Sweden
    As a side-note; if you don't want to offend, perhaps you shouldn't call it a wall of text when it's not. That's just a long, thorough post. A wall of text is a long text that doesn't use paragraphs.
     
    jroc likes this.
  8. binary visions

    binary visions Android Expert
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    413
    Posts:
    3,334
    Joined:
    May 14, 2010

    May 14, 2010
    3,334
    1,443
    413
    I agree.

    Substantial amounts of information should not be demeaned and dismissed. "I didn't bother reading" speaks volumes about the poster when the post itself was thoughtful, well spaced and punctuated, and eminently useful.

    EarlZ: if you don't want to educate yourself on a topic, don't insult someone knowledgeable by telling them their information is less than useful. It's a personal failing on your part that you didn't choose to read it, and if you didn't bother reading it, how can you possibly comment on whether it is more or less useful than another post?
     
  9. EarlZ

    EarlZ Android Enthusiast
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    285
    Joined:
    May 13, 2010

    May 13, 2010
    285
    11
    38
    I would recommend you read what I said and understand the context and not the last line alone. thank you.
     
  10. Markiz

    Markiz Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    36
    Posts:
    132
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010

    Jan 17, 2010
    132
    3
    36
    well, i dont really know how knowlegable display geek is, seeing how he talks theres nothing wrong with pentile, when actual comparison shots show differently.

    Not that SGS's screen is terrible, far from it, but droid seems noticeably better in displaying text.
     
  11. Geryatrix

    Geryatrix Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    18
    Posts:
    88
    Joined:
    May 4, 2010

    May 4, 2010
    88
    12
    18
    I must admit that my eyes are not in the first flush of youth, but as far as I'm concerned the display on the SGS is superb.

    I'm not saying that under magnification the individual pixels can't be seen, but as I don't use a magnifying glass to look at my phone screen, I'm very happy with what I can see.
     
  12. dsjr2006

    dsjr2006 Android Enthusiast
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    378
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009

    Mar 25, 2009
    378
    14
    38
    Michigan
    Pentile makes for poor text display in my experience, but that's limited to the Nexus One so........
     
  13. pkulak

    pkulak Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    15
    Posts:
    55
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009

    Dec 8, 2009
    55
    0
    15
    @DisplayGeek Thanks for the great info. Very informative.

    You talk about how Pentile displays are able to use fewer subpixels per pixel, which is an accomplishment, but it sounds to me like an accomplishment of cost cutting, not in quality of the display. Now, if it cuts costs and displays the same quality image then that's a win. Are you saying that it really is the exact same quality of image? No downsides at all?

    And, do you know off hand how many subpixels are used to display each pixel on the Galaxy S?

    EDIT: Just read the Wikipedia article. Assuming that it uses RGBG, that would be 2 subpixels per pixel, vs 3 with RBG?
     
  14. kanzlr

    kanzlr Newbie
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    16
    Posts:
    21
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009

    Feb 24, 2009
    21
    2
    16
    the problem is just SMALL text.
    a zoomed out webpage where I can read the text fine on my Milestone is almost unreadable on the Galaxy S.

    but yes, most stuff looks good...*ieks*
     
  15. tx_brandon

    tx_brandon Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    43
    Posts:
    187
    Joined:
    May 28, 2010

    May 28, 2010
    187
    48
    43
    mosaic artist
    Austin
    For Display Geek to sidestep the subpixel issue and address the 'lesser resolution' non-issue is a red herring argument. PenTile does indeed have its drawbacks when it comes to displaying pure text.
     
  16. YellowGT0

    YellowGT0 Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    114
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010

    Jul 17, 2010
    114
    22
    38
    At normal viewing distance Pentile display looks just as sharp as the others. Maybe under an electrion microscope the LCD wins
     
  17. YellowGT0

    YellowGT0 Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    114
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010

    Jul 17, 2010
    114
    22
    38
    ROAR SO PIXELATED!
    [​IMG]

    Wow you really see how much gets cut off with the smaller screen in this pic :-O
     
  18. Evil Peter

    Evil Peter Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    151
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010

    Jun 1, 2010
    151
    11
    38
    Sweden
    I've compared the SGS to iPhone 4 and a few LCD Android units and I definitely wouldn't trade away the SAMOLED. The difference in text readability is in my opinion clearly smaller than the difference in contrast and colors. YellowGT0's picture shows that pretty well.
     
  19. galaxyS

    galaxyS Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    36
    Posts:
    177
    Joined:
    May 12, 2010

    May 12, 2010
    177
    3
    36
    pentile display is nothing!!!

    gee, i have the phone and i don't see anything wrong with texts and shades or blah blah blah.. seriously this pentile is nothing and does not really affect your reading/writing experience on the galaxy s.. it's more of like a gimmick to degrade the phones that use this tech.. but, seriously it's not a big deal..
     
  20. OfTheDamned

    OfTheDamned The Friendly Undead
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    813
    Posts:
    9,692
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009

    Oct 29, 2009
    9,692
    8,365
    813
    Right Behind You
    This thread already has a topic. It is conveniently located right there in the title and the first post. Please stick to that topic.
     
  21. waspbr

    waspbr Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    36
    Posts:
    91
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010

    Jan 29, 2010
    91
    9
    36
    well, the display is aweseome, I have been reading books on it, I have mainly used the thinkfree (natively installed) app to read PDFs and the native ebook reader/kindle for the remainder.

    The Screen really does not disappoint.
     
  22. Eazail70x7

    Eazail70x7 Android Expert
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    163
    Posts:
    1,612
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010

    Mar 13, 2010
    1,612
    108
    163
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Sweet
     
  23. Markiz

    Markiz Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    36
    Posts:
    132
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010

    Jan 17, 2010
    132
    3
    36
    Mods, could you sew together these two pentile threads? Or something?
     
  24. kanzlr

    kanzlr Newbie
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    16
    Posts:
    21
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009

    Feb 24, 2009
    21
    2
    16
    nobody said SAMOLED is bad, I own and use a Galaxy S myself.
    Those that say there is no problem seem to not compare the smalles fonts possible (while still being readable).

    whats so hard about holding it side by side and comparing it?
    is it a deal breaker? no!
    is it annoying if you like to view webpages zoomed out and still read the small text? yes!
    has amoled benefits? sure, color and contrast.
    these benefits just don't mean that small text is any more readable.
     
  25. shableep

    shableep Lurker
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    5
    Posts:
    1
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011

    May 15, 2011
    1
    0
    5
    Hey. I registered just to say that I may be an unusual case, but I noticed the difference in these screens before I knew what they were. And I think these types of screens must have been around for a while because I first noticed the unusual look of these screens on camcorders back in about 2001. On these PenTile screens it appears to me as though the pixels are diagonal. Then, when I learned that the PenTile sub-pixels were actually offset, it made sense that I would see a "diagonal" effect. It could be that many people don't complain about this because it's either not worth complaining about to them, or maybe they're not sure about what specifically makes them look odd.

    While what I noticed to be PenTile back in 2001 was probably an LCD implementation of it, I can understand the use of PenTile on OLED screens. The power savings it provides probably helps make OLED a more compelling option for mobile devices.

    Anyway, I came across this thread after reading a recent announcement about a 300dpi 10.1" PenTile screen that is in development at Samsung. So here's to hoping that when a PenTile screen gets to 300dpi, the offset sub-pixels wont be noticeable anymore.
     

Share This Page

Loading...