Photon or Galaxy S2

[So-Low Da Don]

Support from Samsung and rooting are separate. Just take a look at epic 4g and nexus 4g. No amount of rooting can solve their gps and signal/reception problem until Samsung released an update for it.

Well let's wait until we see GPS and Signal issues on the E4GT. If there are no major issues than rooting and installing custom ROMs will work for slow updates.

 

[whatsitsname]

Well let's wait until we see GPS and Signal issues on the E4GT. If there are no major issues than rooting and installing custom ROMs will work for slow updates.

I'm just using the gps and signal as an example. If there is a bug you will need Samsung to come out with an update to solve it. Rom support is good if the phone is bug free but it is not a replacement for updates.

 

[tbhausen]

Support from Samsung and rooting are separate. Just take a look at epic 4g and nexus 4g. No amount of rooting can solve their gps and signal/reception problem until Samsung released an update for it.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Radios and GPS were TERRIBLE on my NS4G in my area (west side of Indianapolis). If the ET4G has the same radios it could be a poor performer, too (and don't count on software fixes--the one released for the NS4G was largely reported to be ineffective, except for improving wi-fi performance).

Brand loyalty and "activism" for phones has always made no sense to me. I evaluate model-by-model, based upon PERFORMANCE.

 

[So-Low Da Don]

Brand loyalty and "activism" for phones has always made no sense to me. I evaluate model-by-model, based upon PERFORMANCE.

Well if that's the case then people shouldn't down the SGS2 because what Samsung did a while back. I'm not loyal to Samsung just happened to make the best phone for me. I ws going to get the Photon until the Epic 4G Touch was revealed.

I've been reading the SGS2 forums ever since the phone came out and they had some problems with overheating, which an update solved in about 2 weeks. GPS is working perfectly.

Most of the problems from the original Samsung Galaxy S was brought over to the U.S. versions. (GPS, etc.) And besides GPS (Which was fixed after the first leaked FroYo) I really don't have problems with my Epic. Since I don't see any major issues on the international version of the SGS2 it's safer to assume there won't be as many problems as the SGS in the U.S version either. I might be wrong, but I have 30 days to see, so if I'm wrong I'll probably be getting this or waiting for the Nexus.

 

[Damar1979]

Well if that's the case then people shouldn't down the SGS2 because what Samsung did a while back. I'm not loyal to Samsung just happened to make the best phone for me. I ws going to get the Photon until the Epic 4G Touch was revealed.

I've been reading the SGS2 forums ever since the phone came out and they had some problems with overheating, which an update solved in about 2 weeks. GPS is working perfectly.

Most of the problems from the original Samsung Galaxy S was brought over to the U.S. versions. (GPS, etc.) And besides GPS (Which was fixed after the first leaked FroYo) I really don't have problems with my Epic. Since I don't see any major issues on the international version of the SGS2 it's safer to assume there won't be as many problems as the SGS in the U.S version either. I might be wrong, but I have 30 days to see, so if I'm wrong I'll probably be getting this or waiting for the Nexus.

Sooooo, if you were dating this awesome chick that looked great on paper, visually appealing, awesome body, seemed flawless at first...then you realized that she was lazy, didn't support you until she felt like it, couldn't take her out in the day time because she didn't like it much, and ended up going back on her word often and eventually felt like she cheated on you.... would you go back to that same girl? That's pretty much how I feel about samsung right after the moment/epic fiasco.

 

[So-Low Da Don]

Sooooo, if you were dating this awesome chick that looked great on paper, visually appealing, awesome body, seemed flawless at first...then you realized that she was lazy, didn't support you until she felt like it, couldn't take her out in the day time because she didn't like it much, and ended up going back on her word often and eventually felt like she cheated on you.... would you go back to that same girl? That's pretty much how I feel about samsung right after the moment/epic fiasco.

Well I guess I am the lucky one who pulled the only good Epic ever made Working GPS, ROM'ed and running smoother than a lot of phones I've seen. Never freezes. Rarely fc's. No signal issues.... I'm just one lucky guy!

 

[Damar1979]

Well I guess I am the lucky one who pulled the only good Epic ever made Working GPS, ROM'ed and running smoother than a lot of phones I've seen. Never freezes. Rarely fc's. No signal issues.... I'm just one lucky guy!

By rom'ed I take it that you weren't happy with the way samsung was running it, therefore you had it rooted. My apologies, I thought this was about the way one phone is in stock form vs another in similar fashion. No rooting in the equation

 

[So-Low Da Don]

By rom'ed I take it that you weren't happy with the way samsung was running it, therefore you had it rooted. My apologies, I thought this was about the way one phone is in stock form vs another in similar fashion. No rooting in the equation

Well that's about the same for every phone I've had. (Moment, Hero, EVO, and now this Epic) I mostly use custom ROMs because the UI gets boring after a while (TouchWiz, Sense, etc.) So I change every so often, but I might be keeping TouchWiz 4.0 for a while because it looks pretty cool. I'd change the Photon's WhateverBlur in a second if I got it. No offense but it's one of the worst UI's I've seen besides the Huewai Ascend.

But why shouldn't we compare our phones at their full potential? Why compare 2 phones at 70% when we can see how they really perform?

 

[Wolfedude88]

Well that's about the same for every phone I've had. (Moment, Hero, EVO, and now this Epic) I mostly use custom ROMs because the UI gets boring after a while (TouchWiz, Sense, etc.) So I change every so often, but I might be keeping TouchWiz 4.0 for a while because it looks pretty cool. I'd change the Photon's WhateverBlur in a second if I got it. No offense but it's one of the worst UI's I've seen besides the Huewai Ascend.

But why shouldn't we compare our phones at their full potential? Why compare 2 phones at 70% when we can see how they really perform?

I agree, I always root and put custom roms on my phones. But the vast majority of android users do not. I think that is one of the big reason why to compare stock vs stock.

 

[Mikenk]

But why shouldn't we compare our phones at their full potential? Why compare 2 phones at 70% when we can see how they really perform?

I love high performance sports cars; However, I also have to carry around two sets of golf clubs, often an eighty pound Lab, and I need reliability. My choice in cars gets limited due to the practicality of my needs. When researching a new car, it is always about what I can buy to have fun and meet my needs - never about how I can modify it to meet my needs.

That is the way the vast majority of people look at cell phones. Is it going to be fun but primarily, is it going to meet our needs? If I have to root the phone to accomplish my needs, than I will look elsewhere. It is fascinating to watch the passion in some folks on these forums that judge phones on every possible technical feature, most of which are subjective, and really mean very little in the real world.

I must admit it is entertaining to observe. I have already learned what i need on this forum to buy and customize, but will hang around awhile to watch the passion fly when this phone is actually released.

Mike

 

[drexappeal]

I agree, I always root and put custom roms on my phones. But the vast majority of android users do not. I think that is one of the big reason why to compare stock vs stock.

This is EXACTLY the point, dead on Wolfe!

When comparing history of support, Motorola has had a much better reputation than Samsung. For So-Low Da Don, his viewpoint with regards to the SG2 are extremely valid if anybody is considering the SG2 as a rooted Android device.

For those that happen to venture to this forum, but are not familiar with Android and are trying to make a decision between the two phones, it's important for those people to understand that there is a history of lackluster support from Samsung, as compared to HTC and Motorola. And that's specifically with regards to US support. International phones seemingly don't have as much trouble getting support for Samsung phones.

I just want to re-iterate, I OWN AN EPIC and I like the phone a lot...BUT, the truth of the matter is Samsung hasn't improved their reputation for US support in 2 generations of Android phones (Moment and Epic). And if you want to trace their lack of support even further back, look at the Instinct that was supposed to be the first "iPhone killer" (LOL).

This is just reporting fact for those that may not have been aware. On paper, Samsung devices have ALWAYS looked spectacular, but once that device is yours, just pray that you don't have to count on Samsung to release an update in order to improve the phone or fix issues because their reputation is not good in that department.

Best comparison I could give is if you're in an abusive relationship. The person that is being abused usually has a tendancy to make excuses for the person that's doing the abusing and continually gets abused with the biggest explanation being, "that was last year...it won't happen again"...but still, it keeps on happening. Until Samsung changes that pattern, that's they've in essence taken the stance of an abusive side of a relationship.

 

[simcha]

Best comparison I could give is if you're in an abusive relationship. The person that is being abused usually has a tendancy to make excuses for the person that's doing the abusing and continually gets abused with the biggest explanation being, "that was last year...it won't happen again"...but still, it keeps on happening. Until Samsung changes that pattern, that's they've in essence taken the stance of an abusive side of a relationship.

Wow! Thanks drex! I couldn't have said it better myself. What you describe is called, "The Stockholm Syndrome."

 

[clgwli]

Wow! Thanks drex! I couldn't have said it better myself. What you describe is called, "The Stockholm Syndrome."

I agree very well said!!!

I've had a handful of Samsungs and I didn't realize how bad they were until I lived through my Intercept (similar to the Moment). It' an okay phone but the thing just doesn't work well as time goes on. I took great care of the phone and the keyboard cracked after about 8 months of use.

The lack of updates were pathetic, though did eventually get Froyo (it did brick about 50% of the Intercepts from what I was reading). I just am kind of burned out.

I love the MoPho and plan to stick to Motorola for a while. Even if I do upgrade my phone next year I plan to share this one with my dad as long as there is another great Motorola to get. I am an upgrade junkie though. I see how my dad dislikes his Intercept at times and I'd love to give him a great phone, so I'd be happy to share

 

[So-Low Da Don]

To clear some things up, I really don't think the E4GT will need to be rooted/ROM'ed to outperform the Photon. The Exynos, as we all know, is lightyears ahead of Tegra 2, BUT the only thing that could stop this phone from outperforming the Photon would be some major issues. (Broken GPS, Signal Issues, etc.) If there aren't any major issues, then the E4GT could smoke the Photon easily, BUT if it does and these aren't fixed by around day 28, I'm taking it back and getting a Photon, which I will be rooting and Romming, because there hasn't and probably never will be a UI that suits my needs after being spoiled to rooting..... Unless someday they release a phone pre-installed with CM7.

 

[twospirits]

I forgot where I read it recently but there was an article referring to the iPhone coming to Sprint and that Sprint was holding off of a super (android) phone until after the iPhones debut. Now being that the SG2 is about to come out, I am left to wonder what could this possible super phone be?

Would it be an ICS phone from HTC or Motorola?

TS out

 

[Draiko]

To clear some things up, I really don't think the E4GT will need to be rooted/ROM'ed to outperform the Photon. The Exynos, as we all know, is lightyears ahead of Tegra 2, BUT the only thing that could stop this phone from outperforming the Photon would be some major issues. (Broken GPS, Signal Issues, etc.) If there aren't any major issues, then the E4GT could smoke the Photon easily, BUT if it does and these aren't fixed by around day 28, I'm taking it back and getting a Photon, which I will be rooting and Romming, because there hasn't and probably never will be a UI that suits my needs after being spoiled to rooting..... Unless someday they release a phone pre-installed with CM7.

They Exynos isn't lightyears ahead of the Tegra 2. Exynos is running at a 20% higher clockspeed, rendering graphics on lower-res screens compared to most Tegra 2 devices, and has NEON.

Most (if not all) of the Exynos' advantages come down to NEON. Tegra 2 devices were supposed to be in stores over a year ago, that's one of the reasons the SOC doesn't have NEON.

Even so, the SGS2 benchmarks aren't THAT much faster than a Tegra 2 device. The LG Optimus 2x, a Tegra 2 device with an 800x480 screen, racked up 2,958 in Quadrant while an SGS2 snagged a 3,053... a 3.1% increase in performance while running at 20% higher clockspeed is NOT what I'd consider "blown away".

Proof

 

[So-Low Da Don]

They Exynos isn't lightyears ahead of the Tegra 2. Exynos is running at a 20% higher clockspeed, rendering graphics on lower-res screens compared to most Tegra 2 devices, and has NEON.

Most (if not all) of the Exynos' advantages come down to NEON. Tegra 2 devices were supposed to be in stores over a year ago, that's one of the reasons the SOC doesn't have NEON.

Even so, the SGS2 benchmarks aren't THAT much faster than a Tegra 2 device. The LG Optimus 2x, a Tegra 2 device with an 800x480 screen, racked up 2,958 in Quadrant while an SGS2 snagged a 3,053... a 3.1% increase in performance while running at 20% higher clockspeed is NOT what I'd consider "blown away".

Proof

Well, here's a comparison of the Exynos and Tegra 2 chipsets

If the 2x scored that, the G2X which is supposed to be the same phone doesn't actually perform like that in the real world. I've played with a friends G2X and it doesn't come close to the SGS2 standard of smooth and it was vanilla or pretty close to it.

 

[Draiko]

Well, here's a comparison of the Exynos and Tegra 2 chipsets

If the 2x scored that, the G2X which is supposed to be the same phone doesn't actually perform like that in the real world. I've played with a friends G2X and it doesn't come close to the SGS2 standard of smooth and it was vanilla or pretty close to it.

There are 3 things you have to understand here:

1. These are claimed theoretical performance specs on a Samsung marketing slide. Samsung also claimed that the hummingbird could push 90 million polys but in reality, it only pushed 40 mil. That slide is pretty much useless. Objective benchmarking and testing show the reality of the situation.

In reality, The Tegra 2 does over 71 M Tri/s and 1200 Pix/s. It also has a few neat little tricks like early Z culling and optimization to bring real-world fill rate performance up to Exynos' theoretical advertised levels.

2. We keep these devices for 1-3 years. Which company will make the best use of their hardware in that time? We're talking about Samsung vs nVidia. The original Galaxy S came out and Samsung couldn't even get the GPS working correctly for nearly a year. nVidia not only has an excellent track record for solid performance (save the G80 mobile soldier incident which was TSMC's fault). nVidia has already been working with software devs to leverage the power of the Tegra 2 while Samsung will rely on the Android developer community. Android devs usually build for the lowest common denominator. nVidia has an organized and powerful pro-Tegra initiative going software-side. Whatever extra potential that the Exynos has will, like the Hummingbird, most likely go unused while the Tegra 2 will feature a nice little library of high-quality software.

Tegra 2 and Exynos equipped devices hit the market around the same time (February 2011) and look at which SOC has the most software taking advantage of its capabilities. The Tegra 2.

Hell, you need to root and install Chainfire 3D to play the best Android games and even then it can't run all of the Tegra Zone games (which are the best available for Android devices right now). I have very little confidence in Samsung's abilities to bring software devs together and leverage the Exynos even a fraction of the degree that nVidia is leveraging the Tegra.

The worst I've had to deal with is waiting for Skype to put out a Tegra-optimized video call equipped app. I've got Fring. I've got Tango. Tegra is getting Gtalk video calling very soon and Skype was shown off on an Acer Iconia 8 months ago at CES making HD video calls.

I don't need 1080p video recording. A few other users might like that as a bullet point, but won't even use it. It's like comparing the iPhone 4's 5MP camera vs the 8MP cams in other devices... most users didn't give a CRAP about those extra 3MP.

The SGS 2 still needs high res 1080p vids transcoded to MP4s in order to play smoothly just like the Tegra 2 devices. Exynos can't even play MPEG2 encoded video and has quite a few sound codec limitations. Anything more than Baseline profile is going to go unnoticed unless the user regularly outputs video from their SGS2 onto a quality big screen. I don't know about you but I don't use my phone as the heart of my media center.

3. The display on the Photon has a higher resolution than the SGS 2. Yeah, it's not a SAMOLED, but it's damn good and quite a bit better in broad daylight. Tegra 2 is also in most of the current Android Tablets out today and most of those have 1280x800 res IPS screens. Whatever graphics capabilities the Exynos may have won't really benefit the user as much as the Tegra 2. 1080p High profile video means nothing on an 800x480 screen and by the time devices have screens that can showcase that power, most SGS2 users will be trading in their phones for the next best thing.

The performance difference is debatable but I'll stick with the Tegra. nVidia has already shown more initiative than Samsung in USING the capabilities and features of their SOC. I'll be keeping my device for the next 12-24 months and I want to enjoy it as much as possible. nVidia is already doing a better job at letting me do that. The only real weakness is the lack of NEON and nVidia is making it very attractive to deal with.

I see more comments in the Android market from users wishing they had a Tegra device than ones wishing for a SGS 2 (a good few of them from irritated non-Tegra users calling the Tegra-optimized apps Android fragmentation. Either you make software that takes advantage of the special hardware or live with the lowest common denominator's capabilities.).

At the end of the day, do you want to be the dude playing a new game/app on his phone or the guy frantically spending hours rooting and tweaking his device just to get that same game/app to work? I want to spend more time creating new apps/games/abilities for my device rather than wasting my time fiddling with Chainfire3D in order to play a game.

One last thing. Even though Tegra 2 devices didn't hit stores until early this year, the Tegra 2 was nVidia's 2010 SOC. Exynos is Samsung's 2011 SOC. Tegra Kal-el is nVidia's 2011 SOC.

The fact that nVidia's more-that-a-year-old Tegra 2 contends very well with Samsung's Exynos speaks volumes.

 

[you2]

Couple of things:

First I would love to hear the some factual data on how the antennae/radios perform on the SG2. Can we please leave out the speculation. Speculation is fun but there is so much chatter it is becoming difficult to filter. Yes the old galaxy line had issues (esp with gps). This is well documented. No need to repeat in every comment. What I want to know is if they are fixed in the sg2.
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Both phones are plenty fast (though I found the photon a bit sluggish for scrolling playing in the store; perhaps due to motoblur layer or lack of optimization in the graphic layer or increase pixel rate; the evo3d did not seem to have this sluggish behavior).
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I personally would be more interested in hearing which one has better battery life. I would add what I've heard with regards to processor power consumption but it would fall under the heading of rumor at this point.
-

 

[Draiko]

Couple of things:

First I would love to hear the some factual data on how the antennae/radios perform on the SG2. Can we please leave out the speculation. Speculation is fun but there is so much chatter it is becoming difficult to filter. Yes the old galaxy line had issues (esp with gps). This is well documented. No need to repeat in every comment. What I want to know is if they are fixed in the sg2.
-
Both phones are plenty fast (though I found the photon a bit sluggish for scrolling playing in the store; perhaps due to motoblur layer or lack of optimization in the graphic layer or increase pixel rate; the evo3d did not seem to have this sluggish behavior).
-
I personally would be more interested in hearing which one has better battery life. I would add what I've heard with regards to processor power consumption but it would fall under the heading of rumor at this point.
-

The radios in the SGS2 are supposedly the same ones found in the Nexus S (and the Nexus S 4G). If true, those radios had some medium-sized issues. The Nexus S 4G's WiMax was piping through at a significantly slower speed than an Evo 4G. I'm not sure if those issues have been fixed yet but they're being worked on.

The MoPho is a bulldog when it comes to radio signal. It does very well with weaker signal. Testing has found that the WiMax radio in the Evo 3D goes faster in full signal WiMax areas while the Photon goes faster with weaker signal.

The SGS 2 is rated as having an 8.7 hr talk time (Sprint vanity page) vs the Photon's 9.1 hr talk time. Battery life will be similar but the Photon will edge it out.

 

[Torisen]

I'll be getting a Photon and it will be my first cell phone ever. I'm pretty much a regular consumer so all that rooting and whatnot don't really appeal to me.

I can also tell my friends "Arm the Photon Torpedos Mr. Scott". Heck I should make that my ringtone lol. Or I could say "I'm packin on hell of a MoPho".

 

[you2]

I thought sprint/google pushed a fix for this issue a couple of months ago and it significantly improved nexus 4g performance ?

The radios in the SGS2 are supposedly the same ones found in the Nexus S (and the Nexus S 4G). If true, those radios had some medium-sized issues. The Nexus S 4G's WiMax was piping through at a significantly slower speed than an Evo 4G. I'm not sure if those issues have been fixed yet but they're being worked on.

 

[Damar1979]

I thought sprint/google pushed a fix for this issue a couple of months ago and it significantly improved nexus 4g performance ?

Lol, exactly! A couple of months ago for a phone (made by samsung) that has been out for how long prior to that update happening?

 

[Draiko]

I thought sprint/google pushed a fix for this issue a couple of months ago and it significantly improved nexus 4g performance ?

That's just my point. Samsung's phones have always had some major bug and that bug always takes MONTHS to fix.

The Photon had a few defective units that shipped out. Other than those problem devices, the Photon has been a very solid performer.

I do hope that the last 5 months since global launch has giving Samsung time to fix any possible issues in the SGS 2.

Also, with the Nexus Prime coming in Oct/Nov (hopefully launching on Sprint) and the Tegra Kal-el phones hitting sometime in Dec 2011 and Feb 2012... both the SGS 2 and the Photon 4G are getting tougher and tougher to justify.

If you're getting the SGS 2 for raw power, don't. The Tegra Kal-el will blow it out of the water in a few months and you'll have to deal with some buyer's remorse.

I love my Photon, but I will probably trade it in for a Tegra Kal-el (or Kal-el+) device next year.

 

[Damar1979]

That's just my point. Samsung's phones have always had some major bug and that bug always takes MONTHS to fix.

The Photon had a few defective units that shipped out. Other than those problem devices, the Photon has been a very solid performer.

I do hope that the last 5 months since global launch has giving Samsung time to fix any possible issues in the SGS 2.

Also, with the Nexus Prime coming in Oct/Nov (hopefully launching on Sprint) and the Tegra Kal-el phones hitting sometime in Dec 2011 and Feb 2012... both the SGS 2 and the Photon 4G are getting tougher and tougher to justify.

If you're getting the SGS 2 for raw power, don't. The Tegra Kal-el will blow it out of the water in a few months and you'll have to deal with some buyer's remorse.

I love my Photon, but I will probably trade it in for a Tegra Kal-el (or Kal-el+) device next year.

But that's going to be the case with all android phones, The next big thing is always around the corner. By the time kal-el devices come out, they will probably start working on Bruce banner chips that hulk out when you put it on 4g. Or bruce Wayne batman chips that figure out how to override roaming and latch on to sonar frequencies.