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Reaganomics

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by keale18, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. PH8AL

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    Ever drive an American built car made in the 90s?
     

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  2. ElasticNinja

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    What?
    GM food is necessary if we want to be able to feed the worlds population and reduce malnourishment.

    Yeah there is a good reason why we dont see any American cars over here apart from Ford.
     
  3. PH8AL

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    Careful that's tinfoil talk. Be terrible for you to get the works by the media machine.

    Every one used to call people who stocked away extra when times were good thrifty. Now they think you are one of those fools on Doomsday Preppers.

    They don't want us to know that petro chemical fertilizers that have been propping up our our food supply have been slowly poisoning the feilds for century and now crop yeilds are dropping below what we need. GM is all they can do even though its got some definite draw backs. The government and corporate farmers donKt want the general public aware that we have passed the tipping point of sustainability and the only stop gap measures make it worse in the long run.

    But back to Republinomics. Seems Regan was in office when the corporate behemoths took over farming. There you go we can lay that one on his economic plan as well. Don't believe when Was the 1st Farm Aid.

    Reagan's drug policies were agressive and had a economic affect. We pay Billions today as a result of just say no.

    Detriot was building real cars when he entered office and by time he left my town Detriot was dead and the majority of us were driving some crap box built by American compaines in Canada and the 3rd world or the equivilent Jap crap box.
     
  4. OutofDate1980

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    This is why Nixon appointed Powell to the SC. If this memo was discovered prior to nomination, approval by Senate would have been problematic at least.

    40 Years Since “Powell Memo” Laid out Corporate Agenda | Accuracy.Org

    "Under the guise of defeating attacks on
     
  5. ElasticNinja

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    wat

    I dont know, farming can be made more and more sustainable. GM is far from all they can do. Its non existent in European agri and we arent having huge problems.

    A policy supported by Democrats alike


    Real cars? American cars have been shit since the 60s. Its just Americans kept buying them as they have no concept of fuel efficiency.
     
  6. PH8AL

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    Ok 1st. The American media try to marginalize any one who questions or has alternate theories. Why? Lots of reasons that have nothing to do with fair or balanced reporting.
    Speak up get labled a freak even if you are saying something important and valid.

    2nd do you realise how much of your food comes from my country. Our crop yeilds are on the decline and the only way we ever produced enough in the 1st place was by using petrol chemicals. Fact check this, I welcome you to try and debunk. These are not my opinions, they are my opinions derived from proveable fact. We live in a closed loop system and our population is expect to double in less than 100 years while science is letting people live decades longer.

    As for American vs European cars. I work on cars for a living and loath poping the hood on anything from Europe. There is such a thing as over engineering to the point of stupidity.
     
  7. ElasticNinja

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    To be fair though I never read the American media for information about America.

    Well, a bit of food I'm sure, although all processing is done here. I mean we are self sufficient in food production. As for petrochemicals, yes, another reason why we must stop burning so much oil.

    Well I'm sure a steam engine would be easier to clean but I really dont care. Efficiency is a priority.
     
  8. PH8AL

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    so, you believe that some one else understands our culture and current events better than we do ourselves. I know our media is a mess but Im going to call skipping our perspective on us a logic fail.

    look up these figures then do the math.
    1. How many acres it takes to support 1 person at your average standard of living.
    2. how many acres of farmable land are in the UK
    3. the population of the UK including the best guess on illegals.

    Total that up and then add 15% of the total to cover waste in manufacturing then an other 10% for post consumer waste (low balling you can look up correct %)
    Im making a bet with some prior knowledge that you are not self sufiecent.

    No one argues that American cars even today used more gpm than European cars. That does not mean anything in a comparison of efficiency. The average American car had a lot more power.
    Our standards are lower yes but a driving factor for efficiency has been power not economy. Yes Europe makes Supercars and sport/lux that are built to the standard of aircraft. They are above the reach of the European middle class and have horrible fuel numbers.
    Call us wastefull for the average man demanding power, sure I'll give you that.
    What Im talking about has nothing to do with that.
    When a system becomes more complicated because it must to improve then it is a net gain. Systems that are have unneeded complication suffer a net loss.

    Example, change the oil filter in any older mercedes and then change the oil filter on my 76 chevy pickup.
    Mercedes you have to take apart this contraption that comes apart into multiple pieces with gasket rings and then have to fish ut an insert. Right on top of the motor so it leaks every where. My truck? When you are underneath pulling the drain plug you grab a hold of the canister filter unscrew it, throw the entire thing in the bin. Pour some oil in the new one, smear some on the oring and screw it on.
    I call out Mercedes but most European cars have a lot of quirks like this where simple stuff is way over engineered.

    I would also like to point out my daily driver is a 94 Saturn Sl1 with a 5speed and gets much better mileage than a European import. Just put a newly rebuilt engine in it and am enjoying 45mpg in town.
     
  9. ElasticNinja

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    Firstly, I do not reside in the UK. My home state is the Republic of Ireland, which is certainly self sufficient in potatoes and dairy. But anyway, I was referring to the Europe when I said "we". Ever since the Common Agricultural Policy we have had food surpluses. Ever heard of the wine lakes and butter mountains? We really ain't gonna starve.

    Why do you need so much power? You dont. If your cars were good I'd see more of them here.

    I never even heard of Saturn, had to Google it.
    At least Obama is trying to increase fuel efficiency with some new regulations.
     
  10. PH8AL

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    Sorry about that thought Cork was in the unjustly occupied part of Ireland.

    We do sell a lot of foodin Europe. So our troubles do have an affect if nothing more than price.

    Why so much power. Fuel was cheap and its a hell of a lot of fun. My truck is a work truck and I only use it when I needed it, its power and mileage penalty are are un avoidable. But yeah its a beautifully simple machine that is very efficient.

    If Obama was realy about the energy policy he would not have let the axing of Saturn be a condition for GM to get the Bailout. Saturn was profitable and the most efficient cars in the GM fleet

    Saturn was not just an American car other than Corvette was the only completely American built car. They were a study in efficiency in operation. They were an average siz American compact that got the mileage of the mini match box cars I could fit in when I was in Europe. Not to mention they are decently fast cars overall and one of the faster N/A sport compacts.

    Simplicity is the key to this and flies in they face of the unneed coomplexity of European cars.
     
  11. ElasticNinja

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    bahahahahahahahaha. You're a funny man. "Unjustly". "Occupied". Oh my lawd.
    Seriously though, get out.

    Well, its connected world, we saw how all the new environmental disasters pushed up food prices.
    ....so fuel shouldnt be cheap and excess power shouldnt be common.
     
  12. PH8AL

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    Yeah the first bit was meant as humor. I got the idea from something you said that you were Welsh. I did not pay attention to your location listed so neatly under your avatar. very few people do that so. Its funny you remind me a lot of some one I know from that area.

    The farming business. Until you have traveled acroos the mid west its hard to wrap your brain around it.
    We grow more food here than they do any where and its dwindling because of petrochemical fertilizers. The really should scare the hell out of every one globally. Our country having any kind of disruption in food processing or delivery should. While many might not starve to death many more would.
    Reagan's watch is when we saw the first Farm Aid benefit and Reagan's policies were one of the leading problems in my opinion.

    As far as fuel mileage your preaching to the choir. I haven't owned a car with a V8 in it since the early 90s. I got turned out by an insanely fast turbo honda that would spank my 78 Olds Cutlass and got twice the mileage. Sold the Cutty and bought the little Honda. F/A 4 cyl have been it for me since. Work trucks are a need that can't be helped.
     
  13. ElasticNinja

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    People from the British Isles speak English and the islands have been united in some way for most of the past thousand or so years. Wouldnt be surprising that we phrase things the same.

    Well farming needs to become more sustainable then? European agricultural payments have become more and more focused on sustainability and quality, rather than quantity. As far as I know yields are not decreasing.
    US agri needs a lot of reform. Apparently most cows in the US dont even graze? That seems a bit mad. And of course theres the whole corn thing. Corn is in every US food product and it certainly doesnt help the taste. Not to mention the whole corn-biofuels debacle which was conveniently tied up by farmers and oil companies. Its massively inefficient and a waste of agri production.
    That said the checks and balances nature of the US political system prevents any sort of reform, as you never have a stable set of politicians in charge for 4/5 years. But realistically the feds should copy what Europe's been doing and try to bring back in small and medium farmers too.
     
  14. PH8AL

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    Unfortunately further Republinomics under the Bush and Obama admins see us moving much the other way.

    I once posed the question in a International forum if we should be trying to save every one when the spike in population followed the introduction of petrochemicals to farming has allowed the global population to grow beyound sustianablity.

    I was quickly called an eco terroist for pointing out the math and asking a question. By a fellow American, but the view was the same from more than a few Western Europeans.
     
  15. OutofDate1980

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    Well in light of the Iran-Contra scandal, the former Iran Foreign Minister statement might have an element of truth to it.

    Reagan claimed he had no direct knowledge in the arms-for-hostages Iran-Contra scandal and it's creditable he had no direct knowledge in the arms-for-not-freeing-hostages claim during the Iran hostage event.

    Then there is William Casey, the then campaign manager, later CIA Chief under Reagan where there is creditably evidence of his involvement.

    Sadegh Ghotbzadeh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "He was "quoted by Agence France Presse saying that he had information that presidential candidate Ronald Reagan was `trying to block a solution` to the hostage crisis. ... Two friends of Ghotbzadeh who spoke to him frequently during this period said that he insisted repeatedly that the Republicans were in contact with elements in Iran to try to block a hostage release."[3]"
     

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