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Rooting phones this is really bugging me.

Discussion in 'Android Apps & Games' started by Bubsmash, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Bubsmash

    Bubsmash Member
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    Okay so yes I am starting a new thread on rooting phones mainly in due to the fact that I really do not understand as to why so many people are doing this especially running around with your phone rooted everywhere you go.
    This is all in due to the fact that I have a strong background in Linux OS. The sad thing is that many people here do not understand the dangers of Root especially running around with your phone being in root user all the time. Do any of you so much as know the dangers of this.
    I dont care about knowing more about having root user on any phone I usto admin many Linux servers as getting root user well that should be understood by now on these forums. Search other threads if you want to know about getting root user on your phone.
    I was always told NOT to run in Root user all the time. Yeah I didnt listen I crashed a server with about five hundred unhappy customers in due to me running in Root User the one day. When should one be running in Root user then and when should one not be running in Root User.

    Root User: Changing files around or moving files to a different location, Uninstalling programs, installing programs, Installing drivers, updating firmware. Root user is made for these things and these things ONLY.

    Okay so I heard about this thing called (Super User) what does that do: Super User is very much like Root user yet it does not allow many things so what are these.

    Super User: Changing files around or moving files to a different location, installing programs, Updating programs that are already installed depending on what the program does in Linux sometimes it asked for Root User.

    The thing I do not get is people here really do not seem to care nor do they see the dangers of staying in Root User ALL THE TIME. I have not so much as tried to do anything with Root User on my phone yet in due to me not being able to get the Phone back out of Root User once I am done changing with what I want to change around.
    Having Root User to my phone would be nice yes but running on a Super User account would be much safer for me my carrier I am with as well as the phone itself as big things to the OS on the phone would not be able to be done as easily if I was not in Root User.
    This structure was brought forth for a reason and why others are not following this structure here I really do not know better yet why are there not developers out there that are a part of these forums that have not built an app that will do this.
    I am a responsible admin with all my computers and equipment I run. I am sick of hearing on these forums. Oh my phone flashes up and turns back off then flashes back into a boot again but it just keeps doing this over and over after they have Rooted there phone. It is all in due to what YOU did as the user of the phone in Root. YOU the user did not understand the dangers that were involved. YES I understand we all make mistakes that we learn from but bluntly having your phone in Root ALL THE TIME your just asking for trouble.
    I hope some of you now have a bit better of an understanding of things because I have really tried to hold back on posting this but I see this day in and day out and it really bothers me to a great deal because this just comes down to ignorance is what it is.
    If your going to bicker at me honestly save yourself the work on posting I do not want to hear it. If you are going to post to put valuable info into this thread about concerns problems you have dealt with ect post away that is what this thread is for.
    (I DID NOT) create this post on how to get Root user on your phones. Find another thread on it if that is what you want to know about.
     

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  2. T.M.M.L

    T.M.M.L Android Enthusiast
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    Greetings bubsmash,

    I'm very linux illiterate, but I'm windows savvy. So a lot of the things that you go on about, translates easily for me. I wholly agree to the fact that we don't have the levels of user access on our phones that we need. It would make things so much easier if root levels were a selectable option. But you have to realize that unless some devs decide to code it into their roms, it's a feature we'll never see from manufactures/carriers.

    Here in the states, the carriers love to install all that crappy, needless bloat into the roms. On top of that, they stick it in the system app folders, so there no way to possible remove it without root. I understand that they're in it to make money, but they need to understand just how f'n infuriating their practices are.

    That being said, you might as well sit in front of a brick wall and scream at the mortar if you think that your post is truly going to make a difference. I've tried to tell many newbies to wait and see how their phones work for them before rooting, but it never seems to make a bit of difference.

    The forums are full of "I'm getting this device tomorrow, what can I delete, what rom should I flash, which kernel should I use?", posts than you could shake a stick at. What do you expect, we live in a "Damn the patience, screw the needing to know what the hell I'm getting into, I want it now type world (Veruca Salt much?)"

    I see what you're trying to do, but as the Borg would say, "Resistance is Futile!!" So sit back and relax. Have a beer, glass of wine or what ever floats your boat and for goodness sakes, stop reading newbie help posts...they seem to be stressing you out. LOL!!
     
  3. Bubsmash

    Bubsmash Member
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    I also would like to add that the phones that you can buy that are already fully unlocked from factory were supposed to be going to the masses of developers out there that have a great understanding of Rooted access phones. In due to this they were also only soley supposed to be sold to these types of people with schooling in programing as well as the masses out there that administrate big servers day in and day out. This is now not being done so it really has become a double edged sword between provider and client. Telus being one of them has been one of the worst for this. The samsung Nexus series phones when Telus had there shipment come in with these phones they were only supposed to be selling these phones to customers that prooved worthy of having these phones with full Root access. This was not done with the selling of the phones so now we run into the problem with our carriers as well as the makers of the phones not wanting to stand behind any warranties whatsoever when a phone is rooted. Honestly myself I can honestly see allot of problems arrising from this than any good will be squeezed out of this now. Why do I say this well mainly in due to the sheer ignorance of a person not being taught how to safely protect themselves as well as there device they have. Just a few things I see ALL the time. People leaving there 3G and for some phones 4G turned on ALL the time. Bluetooth turned on wide open for others to get in and play around. People not fully understanding how tethering works remember there are other prying eyes out there. Do you have everything as secure as possible when using this feature between your devices? Am I really the only one that has thought these things over or is there others out there on these forums like me that can see a real problem with things like this having a real negative impact very soon here? Remember there are many out there that are great people that want to make things better then there are others out there that still see allot of fun in ruining things for others out there.
     
  4. Bubsmash

    Bubsmash Member
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    Hey thank you for the post T.M.M.L your right too it does agrivate me mainly in due to the fact that I see a real change coming here soon with our service plans ect. Things cannot keep on going on the way they are. If you dont believe me just wait and see what our carriers have planned for us all real soon here and its going to ruin it for everyone out there. I know myself as a long term admin as well as a wireless administrator at one job I never put up with it you cant when it means server down time. You cant when it means that a huge circle of people being hacked to do damage to the carriers I see is just on the tip of happening now. Just like when Limewire became very popular a long time ago beleive me it was a hair pulling experience for me as well as everyone I worked with. One of our installers was so great with giving us the info we needed to throw into our BCU units so when we added them as a customer things ran full bore at 100Mbps. Our installer one day did five installs no MACs were put in for the cards to be throttled so in turn I had a few unhappy customers after I just blocked there IPs from our system in turn they lost all internet access. Why did I do it because of one dumb bunny NOT doing his job I also had every customer phoning me asking me with what was going on as I had three of our five towers shut down in due to the mass bandwidth stress on the whole system.
     
  5. Bubsmash

    Bubsmash Member
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  6. tcat007

    tcat007 Android Expert
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    I know almost nothing about rooting... but yes, I rooted my phone. I didn't have a lot of apps, and kept running out of app space. Optimus-V only gives you about 178mb, and VM fills half that up with bloatware. Now I'm rooted and using link2SD, I have over 100mb free with over 100 apps. That's really the only reason I had for rooting. I don't mess much at all with files on the phone (I do put a lot of faith in Titanium and App Quarantine). I would not have rooted had the phone had 300-400mb of free app space.
     
  7. wayrad

    wayrad Android Expert
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    Well, I've no quarrel with the idea that people shouldn't root without exercising due diligence and taking responsibility for any difficulties they get into. But I'm not sure of the extent to which what you were trained to do on Linux servers should dictate what everyone else does with their Android phones. My experience around here is that almost any difficulties people get into can be gotten out of with a bit of effort and some advice from knowledgeable and helpful folks.
     
  8. 6StringDave

    6StringDave Well-Known Member
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    I actually use Linux, although I truly understand little of how it works. What I do understand from those who have tried to explain the Linux security advantage is that you don't ever login as the root user. There is quite a bit more to it than this, as it has a much less centralized organization than Windows, which makes it only more difficult to infiltrate. Installation of software is not the least bit simple, therefore if you are a non-programmer such as myself it is best to stick with those linux distros which have some form of "package manager" software.

    But on the idea that you are "all the time" in superuser mode whenever your phone is running once you have rooted it, I don't think this is what "rooting" your phone means. You still can have root access in any Linux distro when you want it, you just need a root password.

    Google decided not to allow the purchaser of phones with it's Android-Linux system to ever have root power where certain system-changing actions go. Many users resent this, therefore they have rooted their phones so that they will have more of customization power which is to be expected with any desktop system. You have to clear the Android "Superuser privileges" confirmation prompt in order to perform root actions, although it's far less tight security than Ubuntu security. On the other hand, you don't have the Windows registry on your phone, so it's more difficult for anybody to hack you. So I'm guessing anyway, but while they almost dogmatically tell you never to certain things (such as the use of task killers), this forum abounds with senior experts who speak of their rooted phones.
     
  9. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor
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    I rooted, but I am not really mindful of any danger as the only reason I rooted was to get Titanium to work. I never installed custom ROMs or whatever. Still see no need for it.
     
  10. aysiu

    aysiu Android Expert
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    When you root your phone, you are not running as root all the time. In fact, you'll notice every time you use an app that requires root, it asks if it's okay to elevate permissions, and then you have to use the Superuser app to temporarily grant those permissions.

    The distinction between Superuser and root is a false one, since when you go to the Terminal app and type
    Code (Text):
    1. su
    (which switches you to the root user account), it calls the Superuser app to ask for permission.

    Your whole rant is based on a false assumption, so I'm not sure what the big deal here is. You are not running as root if your phone is rooted. Just as you are not running as root all the time on a Linux server or Linux desktop just because you happen to know the root or sudo password.

    And your apartment or house isn't wide open to thieves just because you have the key to unlock its door.
     
  11. Bubsmash

    Bubsmash Member
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    What I am getting at is it is not set up like linux at all. From what I am seeing and hearing as well as watching on the youtube videos as well as other sources. On the phones when you root a phone your in root it stays in root there are no passwords no nothing.
    You shut the phone off and turn it back on its in root or are there ways of rooting and getting back out of it like linux because from what I have seen on these phones you root a phone it stays in root.
     
  12. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor
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    From what I have experienced as I just rooted, when something that needs root permissions are attempting to run, the phone will notify you that something is trying to access the phone at a root level, and if you would give it permission. If you are not rooted, trying to run the app is simply going to say, you are unable to give root permissions to the app. Its kinda like an admin mode and standard mode in windows. A standard user cant delete a file in program files, it will need to give a password for it to be possible. Same as rooting, it just tells you what's the password to do so. After it does its thing, it cant access root level again unless it asks permission again.
     
  13. aysiu

    aysiu Android Expert
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    You are not running as root all the time. When your phone is rooted, you have the ability to temporarily elevate to root-level permission for certain apps if you give those apps explicit approval using the Superuser app.
     

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  14. shad0wboss

    shad0wboss Well-Known Member
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    Actually it makes sense by not having a root access by default because for now people only need root access to do developement mostly, overclock, install plugins e.t.c and all that wouldn't be useful for a normal android user who doesn't even know about the names of the android versions (2.x, 3.x) so i mean if you're going to be doing something technical, you should know how to root your device..that's something really basic

    I mean there's a universal way of rooting your device through ADB but that's something only someone who's interested in technical stuff would do so again it makes sense that it's not of a common thing but like a special feature for those who want to use it.
     
  15. MacFett

    MacFett Android Expert
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    And this is exactly how android OS should run all the time. tcat007 and I have the same phone, it has 178megs of usable internal memory. It fills up fast, so I rooted for the same reason he did, to use Link2SD. I also use titanium backup.

    Had my phone come with the ability to move apps like Link2SD does and make backups I wouldn't have rooted.

    I am not an avid linux user, but I have used it, I understand the dangers of running at root. I run windows on most of my computers and never allow anyone to log in as admin.
     

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