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Samsung vs. Apple trial: your take

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by AT1988, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. AT1988

    AT1988 Member
    Thread Starter

    What do you think of this trial between the two smartphone and tablet titans?

    Me, personally, I think Apple wants to destroy competition and monopolize the smartphone market. Its obvious that its lawsuit it rather petty, especially because it tried to have the Galaxy Nexus BANNED even tho you'd never mistake that phone for an iPhone in a million years. The Nexus doesn't even have physical buttons anywhere. Apple also seeks to play off consumers who, by their own ignorance, may not have been able to tell the difference between their own products and Samsung's. Plus, having Apple employees as "experts" who supposedly could not tell the difference between their own products and Samsung, shows they're clearly sealing their own grave and desperate. In ALL industries, competition takes inspiration from the competition. This lawsuit is like Ford suing GM for making a car, the first TV maker suing others for making TVs, etc.

    Plus, the VAST majority, nearly all Androids (Galaxy S3 included) are nothing close to the iPhone in either user "look and feel," which is simply subjective anyway, and Apple should be ashamed of itself suing on such pathetic grounds. Apple tried this on Microsoft and lost. Apple seems to forget that they do not own the concept of a GUI on either computers or smartphones.

    That being said, you know, Samsung could easily have made this much harder for Apple. I don't say they easily could have avoided this, because Jobs wanted to destroy Android, not just Samsung. But Samsung could really have just gone a little further in its first two Galaxy devices, the icons and the silver bezel, and made this much harder. I mean come on, Samsung. The basic problem is that TouchWiz could have differentiated itself more, like Moto and HTC.

    But still doesn't destroy the fact that Apple is trying to destroy competition and I don't think they're gonna win or ban Samsung smartphones. I think we're likely to see tho, a radical OTA update on touchwiz at most.

    Also, what is Apple thinking by suing one of their biggest suppliers? Heck if I were Samsung, I'd cut Apple off, hike the prices on them, or do that to try to get them to drop or settle.

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  2. BigCiX

    BigCiX Android Expert

    Apple is trying to be a what Microsoft is to PC's
  3. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Android Enthusiast

    This is something I posted else where I think it sums up my point of view nicely

    Tell yea the truth maybe Apple needs to take a note from another industry who does play nice with each other.

    Look up Colt 1911a1 its a pistol designed by John Browning. That pistol has literally be copied by everyone. I don't see colt trying to sue everyone under the sun for using the design.

    Take the tire Goodyear tire looks exactly like Firestone tire there both black with white or black lettering there both round and come in different sizes. I don't see Goodyear suing everyone over tire design

    Maybe the computer industry needs to sit down and take some notes because at the current rate of SUE SUE SUE there going to end up destroying them self's over the long run.
  4. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    To be honest, I am not sure. If I really cared, I would wait until the trial is over and read the transcript. Unless the case is settled and lots of info is locked behind an NDA.

    Lots of people spouting off about the greedy evil Apple. Most people do not have a clue about the case; the patents involved or how the patent system works. From what I read, it is clear that those that are most vocal about the case do not understand the case. It is a complex issue.

    I'll wait until it is over or perhaps it already is over? Then I will decide, if I decide I give a rat's red rump. It does not affect me or you in any real way.

    I'll say it again, if Apple owns a patent, they must protect it. If someone copies or uses the patent/design/whatever without Apple's blessing, they should have their business practices called into question. If it means not being able to sell their "illegal" products, this is how it must be.
  5. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    However, if the designs you mention are patented and protected and Colt/Firestone wanted to sue, they could have done so.

    You mentioned Firestones colors and sizes and lettering. Chances are, these things cannot be protected. Clearly, the black color is a part of the nature of the rubber, so it can only be black. Size differences are required owing to the design of the vehhicle and (I'll assume you are joking) the shape must be round. Perhaps you jest a tad.

    Perhaps they really cannot sue because they do not own the patents/trademarks/service marks/whatever in the first place?

    Perhaps they entered into the public domain?

    Perhaps there were lawsuits you are not aware of settled out of court?

    Perhaps Mr. Browning's designs were sold or Browning was aware of infringers and he decided not to sue and therefore, lost the right to sue? This last thing can happen with copyrights. If you do not defend your rights, you can lose them altogether.

    Perhaps the laws were different in the old days or perhaps Browning did not actually design the weapon in question and the last thing he wanted was to visit the courts. I see that his name is on the patents, so I'll give you that.

    Research would take time and holding Firestone and Colt up as examples of what Apple should do is a problem for me. There could be good reasons for not suing that thee and me know nothing about.

    I did look up the patent and I noticed all sorts of assignments back and forth. Colt might have patented the design, but it might have been based on other patents. And you do not know which manufacturers actually paid Mr. Colt.

    Again, you cannot hold Colt (and Firestone) up as examples of what Apple and others should do. If you design it, you own it and have the unquestioned right to protect it.
  6. AT1988

    AT1988 Member
    Thread Starter

    you honestly sound like a shill Apple fanboy.
  7. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Android Enthusiast

    I do know a lot of history about the 1911 and I know for a fact the 1911 was a original design in fact it was the first true semi automatic pistol. The system Browning used has been recreated time after time thought. The fact is Brownings 1911 was the perfect design. That's why 99.9% of all semi automatic handguns are based off it. Anything from your modern day Glock to your Sig p226 are all based on the 1911's design.

    The fact of the matter is some times you invite something and its almost perfect. All Semi autos compared to the 1911 look similer




    As you can see from my example they are extremely similar in shape. They both share a main body and a slide with barrel.

    Lets take a look at the Samsung Galaxy vs the Iphone




    They are similar and there is a chance they share some of the same parts (since Apple gets its parts from samsung).

    I guess what I am trying to say is when you perfect something you really have no right to say no one else can use its basic shape and design.

    How else would Apple like manufacturers to design there phone? Most phones are touch screen so manufacture removed all the buttons off the face of the device (similar to new Iphones) does Apple have the right to sue because they did it first?
    rushmore likes this.
  8. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    Well, at one time I did build modems and memory cards for the Newton, so perhaps some of my natural shillyness is still with me.

    Odd that you call anyone who thinks Apple is a good company a 'shill fanboy.' Perhaps rather than post the same old tired stuff, you can address specific points?

    Facts are facts regardless who delivers them to you.

    Perhaps reading the AF rules will prevent yet one more thread closure and warnings from the High Mush Pokas that run AF?

    Personally, I expected comments like yours yet I still love you. Kiss Kiss.
  9. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    Perhaps yes and perhaps no. There is still the matter of who patents first. Omitting the idea that to some people Apple's patents might not be valid, if you patent it, you own it. Until a court says differently, that is.

    As for who should be allowed to manufacture a particular style of phone, who says it is a right? If a company decides to copy a particular design, there can be consequences.

    Samsung, Nokia, Motorolla and the rest make phones because people want them. They have no explicit right to do so; they certainly should find a different design rather than violate someone's legal patents.

    As soon as a company decides to manufacture this or that, they darn well better find out who owns the rights, the patent, trademark or whatever, before they run that first PVT.

    Perhaps triangular or octagonal phones.
  10. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    Huh? Apple owns the market, 100%. They ARE what MS wants to be; the sole source of Applish delights.
  11. HotRoderX

    HotRoderX Android Enthusiast

    I think not my guess is Android owns the cell phone market. I dont have numbers to back that up thought if you have numbers to back up your claim I love to see them.

    Looking at the cell market as a hole

    We know the following to be true
    Android offers more phone choices then Apple
    We know Android offers some products at a lower cost then Apple
    We know that Android is offered on more carriers then Apple.

    To say apple is dominating the market is kinda a stretch. That would mean they not only out sell the low cost alternatives but even with few carriers they sell more of there product.

    As far as Microsoft goes they own the PC market they set the benchmark. They will continue to set that benchmark for many years to come. I will admit thought Apple is starting to take a larger chunk of the market.

    The bottom line is simple until Apple starts putting out lower cost products they can not dominate the market. The majority of people out there can not or will not pay the premium for a apple product.
  12. AT1988

    AT1988 Member
    Thread Starter

    nor pay a lot of money for the same apps you can get free on Android.

    We need the Apple fanboy trolls off this forum.
    Do you think you'd find pro-Android comments on an Apple forum? Methinks NO, why do we allow the inverse here.
  13. Stuntman

    Stuntman Android Expert

    I think any way this trial goes, it will be bad for consumers. I believe that Apple does not want any Android products available. Although there may be some similarities between an iPhone and an Android phone, there are just so many things I cannot do on an iPhone that I can on my Android phone. There are just so many differences that a ban would be such overkill.
  14. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    From the "Top of this thread" department:

    "The Lounge We're all friends here. Hang out, kick your feet up and talk about whatever the heck you want!"

    As soon as a "NO APPLE TALK" edict comes from on high, I would suggest that us "Trolls" have a rightful place here. Just as long as we are polite, stop cussing and treat others with respect, as per the RULES!

    I try and few here would ever say I am insulting or pissy. I state my case and if you disagree, prove it.

    So open your mind and stop with the "Android is best, period" POV; most of us likely would disagree. Most gathered here like Android and many here like Apple, too.

    So rather than argue and say things you perhaps should consider with greater care, you should perhaps avoid the tired old often repeated and never substantiated crud you see elsewhere. rove to us Android is clearly superior and iOS is crap. Remember, just because you like one OS does not make it better.

    Research my past comments. I am pro-Android. But I am not a stupid man. I use what works for me. In some cases, I use what I think is cool. I see lots of coolness with the iPhone. But I will still keep my old phones, too.

    I am not about to agree with a bunch of comments against Apple, even though this is an Android Forum. I am pro Apple AND pro Android. This is not being an Apple Fanboy.

    Not every app you get for free on Android is as good as those you pay for from Apple. Or do you think free is always better? I disagree. I use both operating systems and they both give you the good and the bad.

    Many of the music applications for iOS are uber cool and brilliantly designed. Pages--part of the iWork Suite--is brilliant. I can run my business from my iPad if I need to. Then again, ditto an Android tablet.

    It is impossible to brick an iDevice but one can fubar an Android device. There exists hundreds of Android phones and just a few iPhone models, so your choices are limited, unless limited is not an issue. You must JB an iOS device to customize, but this is not the case with Android. Some say this is good and some say it is bad. I jailbroke my iDevice from a local tavern and Denny's. So what if customizing requires a JB; it took me less than five moments and I have access to Cydia.

    Some people need to root their Android phones to get rid of crap and to do other things. So what if an iPad requires a JB . . . all Android devices require rooting to do some things because Android is "closed" to some extent.

    Both the Android Market and Apple provide crappy free applications as well as wonderful paid apps and there is no shortage of free apps for iOS.

    Not sure what your point is.

    Both platforms are good and both are in some ways, not so good. But that depends on what you want to do. Most users neither root or JB their devices and both users are generally happy.

    When the iPhone 5 arrives, it might force thousands to reconsider the iPhone, thereby moving Apple to the top.

    Or . . .

    It is a dog that drives iPhone users to Android.
    jmar likes this.
  15. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    Not so sure I agree. I'll wait until the trial is over then determine its impact.

    Apple might not want Android hanging around, but Jobs said something to the effect that he wants to crush Android/Google. Not sure his comments require parsing; no between the lines hints to worry about. No love lost between Google or Apple.

    Remember, those things you say you cannot do with an iPhone likely do not matter to the majority of users.
  16. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    Perhaps I'll clarify. What I meant was this: Google gives Android to any company wanting to make Android devices. It is essentially free.

    Apple owns iOS and for most users, they own 100% of the iOS applications market. Until you JB, if you want applications, they must absolutely come from Apple.

    They own iOS and they own ALL iOS powered phones, with no possible way for any other manufacturer to make iOS phones. In other words, they own 100% of the market as far as iPhones/iPads are concerned, not 100% of the cell phone market.

    I am unsure of the exact numbers, and as I recall, EarlyMon made a little more sense of them, but here is my view:

    Apple has just a few current models, but they have a large percentage of the market. Some say Android leads the way but yesterday, I read something about Apple owning an increasing part of the market.

    Neither here nor there.

    Since Apple has just a few models and the Android marketplace is overloaded with cell phone models, I find it amazing that one company--in this case, Apple--sells so many phones.

    Any manufacturer with let us say, only 20% of the market means quite a bit when viewed against the dozens of manufacturers and hundreds of phones. Apple might sell fewer devices as a percentage of the overall market, but they are just one company and they sell millions of devices.
  17. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    But these things do not make Apple a bad company. It also does not mean an inferior (compared to Android) product. The solution is easy: buy an Android phone and ignore Apple.
  18. Stuntman

    Stuntman Android Expert

    I think many of them do matter. I keep seeing some of those features slowly creeping into iOS every year.
  19. rushmore

    rushmore Extreme Android User

    I still prefer the 1911 :)
    EarlyMon likes this.
  20. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon
    VIP Member

    Because we do.

    Because we expect civil conversations and an exercise of the polite choice to agree to disagree when necessary.

    And as I notice that you are not a moderator here, let's have no more of you trying to dictate who can post what and where.

    Next occurrence of any further arguing about trolling - by ANYONE - is going to net an infraction.
  21. cmybliss

    cmybliss Android Enthusiast

    One of the reasons I frequent this forum more than any other, is that people here keep their differences of opinion civil for the most part. And when things get dicey, the awesome moderators cool things down with humor.

    Now, on the topic at hand, I hate all this patent litigation. The system is broken. Patents are being issued for things that have no business being patented. Some of these things are just ridiculous! I could see copyright law being applied but a patent on a rectangle? Sheesh! Phones have been rectangular since the advent of the cordless. Form follows function. A rectangle fits better in the human hand than a square or a circle. After touch screen technology became cheap enough to be practical, it made sense to keep the shape we'd been comfortable with. Not to me that manufacturing costs would be through the roof if using a circle. Printing and reading said print, is better and more efficiently done done on a rectangular page. That's why books are rectangles. These are all instances of form following function, and intuitive thinking, and as such, should not be patentable.

    I'm starting a very small sewing business with a friend. There are only so many ways to do certain things. We can't run out and patent to process of top stitching a seam, then start suing anyone who infringes on said top stitching patent. To differentiate ourselves from the crowd, we have to make a quality product, using quality materials, and combine them in a way that is fun and fresh. That's innovation.
    3vodroid and jmar like this.
  22. Bob Maxey

    Bob Maxey Android Expert

    You would never be able to sue over a top seam. Apparently, top seams are a common and old technique. You can perhaps patent a special sewing machine that creates fancy top seams or patent a design incorporating such artifacts. So yes, if you can patent it, you can protect it.

    Just like you cannot patent rectangular books; they have been in use since the darker ages.

    I think the system needs a reboot. At least, some serious evaluation. Not sure how I would change the system, however.

    What makes it difficult for the novice is some patents are based upon other patents that are based on still more patents. So to say that Apple is wrong or Samsung is right or to hear you say the system needs repair often dismisses a few things.

    This is why it can be costly to get a patent on your new Widget design. You could start selling your products and be in violation of the rights of people you never knew existed.

    I agree about form following function, but who says any manufacturer has the right to release a rectangular cell phone all the while, knowing they violated an existing right? We think manufacturers have a right to make this and that because the idea seems commonplace and logical.

    Fact is, if someone owns the rights/patent/copyrights, they should be paid and not infringed upon.

    If Apple owns the patent, you might not like it, but they own the right and others must either obtain clearances, rights or permissions to also release a device that to all the world, simply seems like a reasonable design that nobody should own.

    OT: consider Angle Policies. Ever hear of them? They are common in the world of scrapbooks and rubber stamps. Some such policies claim the right to sell rubber stamps that create dots, circles, lines and squares.

    Some people are pleased that they do not violate some maker's rights, not knowing that the maker has no rights. these policies will not stand up in Federal Court because you cannot protect common designs like squares and lines.

    God Bless Us And Help Us One And All!
  23. cmybliss

    cmybliss Android Enthusiast

    I think we are in agreement. A company absolutely has the right to protect it's patents. It's just that some patents should never be granted. Like a rectangle. The process of making said rectangle sure, not the shape itself.

    Like my topseam example. You should and could be able to get a patent for a machine/device that makes topseaming easier and more efficient, but not the seam itself.

    I love looking through Victorian era patents on corsets or "bust improvers". You see all kinds of different ways to accomplish the same thing. Some are truly innovative and some are just hysterical. The point is, they were,on the wholr, not patenting the corsets themselves, just the process by which they were made.

    Back to phones/tablets . If you want to patent a rectangular phone, the answer should be no. You want to patent the manufacturing process behind the shape, then it should be yes. Design elements (look and feel) in and of themselves, should fall under the trademark laws.

    Just my opinions in my should'a, could'a world:)

    *edit: just saw I put a "not" X in the wrong place. Changed my whole meaning. Fixed that now.
  24. AT1988

    AT1988 Member
    Thread Starter

    I think you said it best. Should Hyandai be sued for copying Mercedes' style, something which confuses me a lot more than Apple/Samsung? Or Honda and VW for having cars which look like BMWs?
  25. phw8558

    phw8558 Android Expert

    This is definitely a case of Apple feeling threatened by Android. Apple's strategy has always been to keep everything as tight notched as possible. Android however is exactly the opposite. They are as open as it gets. You find their os on all types of phones and this is Android 's key to success.(sound familiar ? *Hint* Windows) Now that Android is taking a dominate claim to the share Apple's only two options are to either limit competition (ridiculous lawsuits) or to expand to new platforms ( deja vu *ipod/iphone/ipad*). Only problem is their mastermind is gone.
    AT1988 likes this.

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