Seriously? No data connection while on the phone?

[IOWA]

Its not at&ts fault they chose GSM. I PREFER GSM to cdma2000, at&t is at fault because you have to have solid backhaul with UMTS in place they rushed the upgrades and neglected backhaul. Think of it this way you have a wireless b router hooked to dsl you buy a new wireless n router its not going to give you a faster internet speed because the backhaul (dsl) remained the same. Gsm can't handle voice And data at the same time either but umts can.

Why would you prefer GSM? It is old tech. Seriously. GSM has poor voice quality, range, and load bearing power when it comes to CDMA.

 

[nateo200]

Why would you prefer GSM? It is old tech. Seriously. GSM has poor voice quality, range, and load bearing power when it comes to CDMA.

When I say GSM I mean the whole line of both GSM and UMTS systems.

 

[IOWA]

When I say GSM I mean the whole line of both GSM and UMTS systems.

Umts is a variant of cdma....

 

[nateo200]

Umts is a variant of cdma....

No your not getting me. UMTS uses a CDMA air interface but it isn't a CDMA2000 system by any means. Don't mix those two up. GSM and UMTS are both in the same family because the 3GPP calls for UMTS to be able to hand off to GSM (usually quadband).

 

[IOWA]

No your not getting me. UMTS uses a CDMA air interface but it isn't a CDMA2000 system by any means. Don't mix those two up. GSM and UMTS are both in the same family because the 3GPP calls for UMTS to be able to hand off to GSM (usually quadband).

3GPP isnt a technology, it is a group of people... So how exactly does a group of people make two different technologies related?

 

[nateo200]

3GPP isnt a technology, it is a group of people... So how exactly does a group of people make two different technologies related?

The 3GPP believe it or not played a big role in GSM and UMTS development, they are the reason you have EDGE when your phone can't get 3G. In 2000 they called for the new world wide tec to have a CDMA air interface since they knew it was supieror to other air interfaces at the time. Countries like japan jumped on board fast, if At&t had acted quicker there 3G would be amazing.

 

[MisterB]

I haven't read all the responses, but your Droid actually has this functionality if you have wifi enabled, and are receiving a wifi signal. You can talk on the phone and use the internet connection at the same time. I just tested it to make sure, and it worked great.

 

[JZAJZZ]

Do you think CDMA will ever get to the point where you can do both, or is it an inherent limitation of the technology? Or can an OS somehow emulate the capability, overcoming the limitation? (Not sure quite how that would work, if it simply is not possible on the network).

As it is, I have not had much need to do both, and I only found out about it from the commercial. But it made sense: I'm on the phone with someone, and I want to look up a movie time and place. But at this point, I do prefer the better coverage and call quality I get from Sprint (which roams on Verizon). I would NOT do ATT in this area of the country (Northeastern NY).

BTW, they (ATT) have another newer commercial that really pushes the point where a guy is juggling 2 phones to lookup something and talk at the same time.

I had never used that feature until someone pointed it out to me a couple years ago.. since then I can remember only one instance where I had to use data while on the phone... it's not a big deal.. especially consdiering that my 3G is way ahead of any GSM 3g in the US ... Sprint and Verizon FTW

 

[nateo200]

I had never used that feature until someone pointed it out to me a couple years ago.. since then I can remember only one instance where I had to use data while on the phone... it's not a big deal.. especially consdiering that my 3G is way ahead of any GSM 3g in the US ... Sprint and Verizon FTW

HSPA+ > 1xEVDO rev a....sorry but more coverage doeant means its technically more advanced.

 

[JZAJZZ]

HSPA+ > 1xEVDO rev a....sorry but more coverage doeant means its technically more advanced.

Evdo Rev from both Srpint and verizon get better reception than AT and T and T-mobile . that's all that matter... doesnt matter how fast your 3G is if you can't get reception

 

[nateo200]

Evdo Rev from both Srpint and verizon get better reception than AT and T and T-mobile . that's all that matter... doesnt matter how fast your 3G is if you can't get reception

Then next time when your referring to CDMA 3G being ahead specify in terms of coverage NOT technology wise because HSPA blows EVDO out of the water in terms of well everything. And what do you mean "better reception?" they both run on pretty much the same frequency bands and that's all that determines the penetration and stability of the signal unless you really want to start talking about enhanced modulation schemes and air interfaces.....

 

[IOWA]

Then next time when your referring to CDMA 3G being ahead specify in terms of coverage NOT technology wise because HSPA blows EVDO out of the water in terms of well everything. And what do you mean "better reception?" they both run on pretty much the same frequency bands and that's all that determines the penetration and stability of the signal unless you really want to start talking about enhanced modulation schemes and air interfaces.....

Actually no, EVDO Rev B (not implemented) is faster, and i wouldnt say "blows it out of the water" in real world scenarios it really isnt much faster.

 

[nateo200]

Actually no, EVDO Rev B (not implemented) is faster, and i wouldnt say "blows it out of the water" in real world scenarios it really isnt much faster.

Name one handset paired with one carrier that has even thought about rev b...yeah. HSDPA always seams to be faster no matter what. Go to japan where DoCoMo has HSPA+ and your phone gets 21 MB/s on the nose downlink and compare it to there equally treated EVDO networks...there's nothing nicer to know that your phone potentioally can out speedtest your cable modem and its not too rare of an occurance either. I'm pretty sure EVDO rev b could have gone to something like 14.7MB/s while HSPA+ can reach something like 42-56 down potentioally which I believe since I've heard of some conucks on belus get 20+ down. Face it UMTS has a wider bandwidth than 1xEv and slighlty suppieror modulation schemes which you can't deny help push the performance, now keeping EVDO devices at 1.25mhz spacing has definatly helped battery life wise, there's hardly a difference between 2g and 3g battery wise on my droid!

EDIT: btw I'm really enjoying this "debate". No hate if I come off as hawkesh I just get a little intense throwing all these terms around.

 

[takeshi]

Boy was I not happy about that.

If this was a major issue for you then why wasn't on your list of things to check when shopping for a new device? Do your research, as always.

As it is, I have not had much need to do both, and I only found out about it from the commercial.

Wish there was a facepalm smiley here...

I'm not saying that there aren't people that want SVDO. However, those that need it better have it on their must have list rather than waiting for at&t/Apple to tell them that they need it.

Why would you prefer GSM? It is old tech. Seriously. GSM has poor voice quality, range, and load bearing power when it comes to CDMA.

International travel, selection of devices. It's old tech but has its benefits.

 

[IOWA]

Name one handset paired with one carrier that has even thought about rev b...yeah. HSDPA always seams to be faster no matter what. Go to japan where DoCoMo has HSPA+ and your phone gets 21 MB/s on the nose downlink and compare it to there equally treated EVDO networks...there's nothing nicer to know that your phone potentioally can out speedtest your cable modem and its not too rare of an occurance either. I'm pretty sure EVDO rev b could have gone to something like 14.7MB/s while HSPA+ can reach something like 42-56 down potentioally which I believe since I've heard of some conucks on belus get 20+ down. Face it UMTS has a wider bandwidth than 1xEv and slighlty suppieror modulation schemes which you can't deny help push the performance, now keeping EVDO devices at 1.25mhz spacing has definatly helped battery life wise, there's hardly a difference between 2g and 3g battery wise on my droid!

EDIT: btw I'm really enjoying this "debate". No hate if I come off as hawkesh I just get a little intense throwing all these terms around.

d

As I said, not implemented, and I didnt say they were considering it, if anything they would skip straight to EVDO Rev C. (It does exist!) And When I speed test my comcast I get 25+mbps.... so yeah... And still cant touch wired internet latency. Which has ALOT to do with speed. You could have 100+MB down stream vs 50mbps downstream but if the 50mbps has alot better latency, it would be an even match for certain tasks, and the 50meg would be better for real-time applications. Plus your forgeting upstream. There are a TON of variables that go into it, and lab tests don't really affect me, so i don't care. In REAL WORLD scenarios, Here in the United States, or other places besides Japan, The speeds arent much different, and EVDO is often much more reliable and faster.

 

[nateo200]

d

As I said, not implemented, and I didnt say they were considering it, if anything they would skip straight to EVDO Rev C. (It does exist!) And When I speed test my comcast I get 25+mbps.... so yeah... And still cant touch wired internet latency. Which has ALOT to do with speed. You could have 100+MB down stream vs 50mbps downstream but if the 50mbps has alot better latency, it would be an even match for certain tasks, and the 50meg would be better for real-time applications. Plus your forgeting upstream. There are a TON of variables that go into it, and lab tests don't really affect me, so i don't care. In REAL WORLD scenarios, Here in the United States, or other places besides Japan, The speeds arent much different, and EVDO is often much more reliable and faster.

I'm really not forgetting upstream unless we are talking about video chat in which case I would still prefer HSUPA/HSPA+...for most applications high download speeds coupled with decent upload is fine. I mean HSDPA only effects the downlink and its made a huge difference. Latency is an inherent property of all wireless communications most likely do to the stability of the connection. I still prefer the HSPA family though, thats coming from someone who has used both and currently has an EVDO devices. It seams lately that I never go over 2MB/s on downlink even if its 3 AM open skys in an elevated position (yes I'm nerdy enough to do a Speed test at 3 AM in the morning whilst reading phandroid). And while typically EVDO doesnt go over 1MB/s and is usally faster than HSPA you seam to get lucky in real world situations more often than not with HSPA and get good data rates on both the downlink and uplink especially if the area has the latest HSPA+ or HSUPA upgrade. Look at T-Mobile for example, there 3G while isnt widespread is based of HSPA (soon to be HSPA+ more widespread) and there data rates blow verizons out of the water . I can't really use AT&T as an example because real world there backhaul is the culpret of why there HSPA network isn't faster (they need to cut the "fastest 3G network" bullshit right fast because we all know thats not true with there shit backhaul set up in about 80% of there network). As for EVDO Rev C. I'm aware it exsists but its like a theoretical improvement of an already unimplimented standard...

 

[IOWA]

I'm really not forgetting upstream unless we are talking about video chat in which case I would still prefer HSUPA/HSPA+...for most applications high download speeds coupled with decent upload is fine. I mean HSDPA only effects the downlink and its made a huge difference. Latency is an inherent property of all wireless communications most likely do to the stability of the connection. I still prefer the HSPA family though, thats coming from someone who has used both and currently has an EVDO devices. It seams lately that I never go over 2MB/s on downlink even if its 3 AM open skys in an elevated position (yes I'm nerdy enough to do a Speed test at 3 AM in the morning whilst reading phandroid). And while typically EVDO doesnt go over 1MB/s and is usally faster than HSPA you seam to get lucky in real world situations more often than not with HSPA and get good data rates on both the downlink and uplink especially if the area has the latest HSPA+ or HSUPA upgrade. Look at T-Mobile for example, there 3G while isnt widespread is based of HSPA (soon to be HSPA+ more widespread) and there data rates blow verizons out of the water . I can't really use AT&T as an example because real world there backhaul is the culpret of why there HSPA network isn't faster (they need to cut the "fastest 3G network" bullshit right fast because we all know thats not true with there shit backhaul set up in about 80% of there network). As for EVDO Rev C. I'm aware it exsists but its like a theoretical improvement of an already unimplimented standard...

Well Im in a heavily populated area (Chicago), so part of it is more than likely tower crowding combined with ATT's poor backhaul. Its funny, at parades or the taste of chicago or other city events, those who have ATT and TMobile can BARELY get calls out and often drop within 1 minute, while those with Sprint and Verizon Call seamlessly with no problems. Even US Cellular is better. And as for latency, 4G WiMax while not at its peak speeds here yet, the latency is a world better than 3G, as it should be. I'd say within the next couple years wireless internet latency will be able to match that of landlines, although I'd still prefer landlines due to superior reliability. Landline internet I believe will be much much harder to replace than landline phone.

 

[MauiDude]

Hopefully Wimax makes it a different game soon. I got 4G in my neighborhood. Just gotta wait for some handsets to come out. Waiting, waiting, WAITING..................