Should the UK leave the EU?

From the 'USA' perspective, I have not been following that subject very much. Although I have been aware of it just by reading the World News almost daily.

As for Obuma, I do NOT trust anything that comes out of his mouth.... he lied to get in office, and he has been a habitual liar ever since... he is a sociopath and can't tell the truth if he wanted to.

There are a lot of us who believe that he has caused far more damage to our country than all of the previous presidents combined.

but..... I can see some advantages for the UK to remain in the EU, fiscal stability of course tops the list...
The economy is a "world wide item", and if the price of an item can remain stable from country to country, and from 'year to year', it helps everyone...

but, if one country suffers badly in the "gross national product", it puts a strain on the other participants to support the loss of income for that one country... I forget the country near Italy that has been bankrupt now for over 2 years, IIRC, Germany has been a heavy provider of bank funds to keep them afloat?

Here in the USA, we have very large cities that have gone Bankrupt.... Detroit comes to mind, and there have been a few others also. Horrible Stagflation in those areas. Property values plummet, and people move out because they have lost their jobs.... the homes and business properties, fall apart and are torn up by gangs who run rampant w/o enough police to keep the properties safe. ( a bankrupt city can't afford a good police force )

Supporting other countries is a subject that is under heavy discussion right here in the USA.... I personally feel that we should just back out of the middle east and let it fall into a nuclear crater.... the world would be better off.
If the money the USA has wasted in Iran/Iraq ( over the past 15 years ) had been spent on keeping our USA citizens in good health, I believe the whole world would have been a better place, AND we would not be Trillions of Dollars in Debt!

The north African nations have been at war for over 2,000 years, how in the hell does anyone think that an outsider country can stop that?

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I didn't vote, as I am an outsider, and I don't feel that I have enough info to vote wisely.

 

Tnx for clearing that up.

now that you mention it, I do recall that the UK kept their own currency.

 

You can say that again.

 

I think many of the key EU leaders - the French, particularly - would be glad to see the back of us, the problem is that it would encourage the anti-EU elements in other skeptical countries - Hungary, Poland, Denmark - and no-one with any sense wants to risk the break up the EU.

From a UK perspective, there is no argument for leaving that cannot be utterly discredited with but a moments thought.

The main reasons given for leaving are that we have to comply with EU regulations; that we have to contribute to the EU budget and we have to allow the free migration of EU people.

The EU is responsible for around 60% of our international trade. It's about to sign TTIP which is an agreement with NAFTA that effectively means the EU will be joined by US, Canada and Mexico. The US is our second biggest trading partner with 15% of international trade so the EU and friends will soon represent over 75% of our international trade. The US has already said that it will not negotiate a trade deal with the UK if the UK leaves the EU - so bye-bye most favoured nation status.

Unfortunately, we cannot survive without international trade - literally, cannot survive as we import around half of our food and have done since Victoria was on the throne. Without the foreign currency EU trade gives us, we would not be able to buy anything from elsewhere.

What that all means is that we have to have a trade deal with the EU. One the key raisons d'etre of the EU is to give it clout in trade negotiations so the terms of any trade deal would be entirely dictated by the EU. The idea that we are too big for them to be tough on us in nonsense - quite apart from anything, we would have lost Scotland and it's oil by then so we wouldn't be anywhere near as big anyway.

The best we could hope for is a deal like Norway's.

Remember those first two arguments for leaving? Not having to conform to EU regs and not having to give the EU money?

Well, Norway currently conforms more closely with EU regulations than any other country - including all the countries in the EU - and it's one of the EU's biggest net contributors (despite it's tiny population). It just has zero say in what the regulations are or how the money's spent.

That leaves the migration nonsense.

News flash: migration's actually really good for our economy. Even if you ignore the looming demographic crisis (remember that?), it is almost impossible to find a legitimate study that does not clearly show that immigration is good for the economy. Look at ours: apparently we've had the highest EU immigration ever over the last couple of years and at the same time we've had one of the highest growth rates in the developed world. Not just that, but unemployment has been falling dramatically.

Then there's the positive effect EU immigrants have on our current account deficit.

The average non-immigrant costs the government £9K more per year than they contribute in taxes (that shortfall is the deficit). The figure for non-EU migrants is slightly worse. EU immigrants on the other hand, pay around £7K more per year than they cost.

Given our deficit is now worse than that of Greece, Spain or Eire, we basically can't afford for them to leave.

I could go on and on (I think I may already have), but one last point: the likes of UKIP point to this mythical time before we joined the EEC when we strode the economic world majestically, our thriving economy the envy of all. Utter BS. Our position before we joined the EEC was on our knees begging to be allowed in - as we had been for over a decade while de Gaulle delighted in refusing us.

The UK economy did reasonably well after WWII because the world was rebuilding and would buy pretty much anything anyone could make. That was long over by the late 60s and we were suddenly faced with real competition for the first time in two centuries: we no longer ruled the waves and we no longer had the world's biggest empire that we could effectively force to buy our goods and services.

Basically, we were absolutely desperate to get into the EEC - and everyone knew it.

You really think Ted Heath negotiated the deal he got from a position of strength? We were so weak, the EEC negotiators were basically taking the mickey, literally throwing in major new conditions right up to the last minute.

All that's changed since then is that the EU is now vastly more important to us economically than it was then - and with TTIP, it will be even more so.

Leaving would be utter madness.

 

So sad and ridiculous. Only 41 and a mother of 2. The killer sounds like the British equivalent of a Trump supporter. I think if the "Brexit" passes, The Brits would be shooting themselves in the foot. If they ruin the European economy, and possibly set off a global recession, how will that help? I understand some of the frustrations, but hopefully cooler heads will prevail, and people are able to look at the big picture.

 

I used to think yes, the UK should leave, but then decided since I'm not British, it ain't my place to say.

 

Good luck to y'all and I hope whatever happens it works out well for you.

 

Wow, they actually did it. The UK is out, markets are plummeting, and Cameron has announced his resignation. Let's hope the long term effects are not as dire as feared. There is talk that the UK could fall apart, with Scotland and Ireland leaving for the EU. Good luck to you guys.

 

I am so sorry... For the global meltdown that the rest of the world is about to suffer...

We're going to suffer more... But that's not your fault.

 

The phrase about cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind. Let's hope America doesn't suffer our own version of this with Trump.

 

Nigel Farrage has been on TV this morning explaining how that was a lie.. Pity he didn't mention that when he was campaigning for the leave campaign.