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Root Slow again. :(

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by offanairplane, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    So I was very frustrated with my stock Eris because it was kinda snappy right after I wiped it when I first got it second-hand. But soon it got very slow.

    Then I rooted and flashed xtrROM_5.0 and it got very snappy again!
    Now it is slow again. Mainly just when I am doing phone-type functions. But sometimes when doing other things.

    I uninstalled my task killer, and haven't used it in 4 or 5 days. It hasn't made a huge difference, as it was getting slow even before I uninstalled it.

    I only have a handful of apps on my phone, many of which are games which I wouldn't think would be running in the background.

    What gives?

    I thought xtrROM_5.0 was supposed to be the workhorse, and stable and fast. If it is slow then I imagine any other ROM I would install would be just as slow. Is it some of my apps that are doing this? I don't think I'm using anything that most everyone else isn't also using.

    If I upgraded to a Dinc or something with a faster processor, would I eventually have the same issues? Would it be fast at first, and eventually slow down the more I use it?



    One more side question (not that upgrading will be an option for me for quite some time) if I upgrade to a new Android phone, will I have to repurchase any apps? Or will I just log into Google, and the app store just as if I were reinstalling everything after a wipe?
     

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  2. doogald

    doogald Extreme Android User
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    Let me first say that I have been using a Froyo or higher ROM since last September - I haven't used xtrROM for longer that a few days since then.

    HOWEVER, I did try to run xtrSENSE 4.6.5 for two weeks, and I noticed something similar - the phone started feeling sluggish after a period of time. I don't think that it was due to call logs or SMS messages, because I restored my history of both to xtrSENSE at the start and it wasn't sluggish at first at all.

    I think that it's very possible that there is something about the HTC frameworks in stock Eris, xtrSENSE, xtrROM, etc., that causes this to happen. Perhaps it is inefficient database storage, a RAM memory leak of some sort (though that should be fixed by a phone restart, you'd think.)

    I will say that running CELB Froyo and now the GSB Gingerbread ROMs - I do not have these issues with slowdowns. Of course, this is an Eris that we are talking about - it's never going to be a speed demon.

    I do like to keep xtrROM around, by the way, for those times when I want to update the roaming list (*228 option 2) - it's much easier with xtrROM than with the Cyanogen ROMs. However, you may want to give GSB a try.

    If you do, I'll give you a couple of pointers that you should know before you install.

    I know that Scary Alien has a Droid X, and perhaps there are DInc users here that can chime in. I'd think not. HTC did make an official Froyo build of Sense on the DInc, and my brother-in-law has a DInc, and when I was messing around with it last summer it seemed absolutely fine.



    As long as you use the same Google account, absolutely not. You will always have access to your paid apps - unless Google changes something that I highly, highly, highly doubt they will ever change.
     
  3. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    Well, actually it does speed up quite a bit after I reboot. But first of all, I don't reboot very often. Second of all, the speed boost after a reboot doesn't last very long. Maybe a day at the most.

    Yes, but do you have other issues, like locking up, or certain features not working well, or at all?

    Aren't there problems that arise from swapping to Roms with newer versions of Andriod-OS, and then back to older ones? I have heard something like that. My phone, is slow but very stable, and I don't want to sacrifice stability for a little speed. Ideally I'd like to have both. That said I don't expect the Eris to perform like an Incredible, but if it could just continually perform like it does right after a wipe, or reboot, that would be fine with me.

    Go ahead if you don't mind. I am considering it.




    So this is more of an Eclair problem than a hardware problem? Though the faster processor doesn't hurt anything, I'm sure.


    Good to know. I will definitely be upgrading to a better Android phone, but not until the middle of 2012 when I get a discount.
     
  4. metlcat

    metlcat Android Enthusiast
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    The Froyo ROMs and Gingerbread ROMs are all very stable. Depending on your phone and settings you might have trouble with one or two of them (no two phones are the same). However, the Gingerbread ROMs seem to be more stable to me. I have never had a random reboot while using one of the Gingerbread ROMs. Using froyo I would get a reboot every once in a while, more on certain ROMs than others. The only issue you may run into is that some apps have not been optimized for 2.3 yet. I've seen a couple people mention it in the GSB thread on xda, and I was having problems with simiclock until he updated the app with a fix.

    Personally, I would not go back to using a 2.1 ROM as my daily since I tried a froyo ROM. They seem much faster to me and Gingerbread seems even more stable. You can always give GSB or a froyo ROM a try, and just go back to your nandroid of xtrROM if you don't like it.
     
  5. doogald

    doogald Extreme Android User
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    Not locking up at all. No random reboots for me.

    There are a few minor issues with Cyanogen ROMs that I know; most of them have fixes or workarounds. They are these (others feel free to add):

    - there is an issue with something called undead calls - the phone, particularly on longer phone calls, will appear to drop the call, but will then immediately reconnect and you will notice that it was connected all of the time. However, Erisuer1 found an answer to this - it is an installable script for the Froyo ROMs, and is built-in to GSB.

    See [SOLVED] Eris "Undead Call" Problem (AOSP/Froyo/GB) Fixed! - xda-developers

    - Many CyanogenMod ROMs will drop a GPS signal while navigating after a period of time - 20 minutes to 30 minutes, say. If you do not use Navigation, it is not an issue. If you do, GSB has fixed this problem as well. I believe that this is still a problem in Froyo ROMs.

    - While in a call while not holding the call next to your head, say on speakerphone or Bluetooth, the display will darken after the default screen off period. With an HTC based ROM, there is a way to get the screen back - with the CyanogenMod ROMs, there is a way as well - you hold VolUp while pressing the Send key. (Others say that GSB now works by pressing the trackball, but that did not work for me yesterday - the other method did.)

    - The HTC ROMs have built-in support for programming the phone - dial *228 and press Send a keypad is displayed and a special app displays to interface with the automated service, including a reboot of the phone when a successful activation or PRL is completed. As far as I know, none of the Froyo or GB ROMs have this, but you can long-press the menu button to get the keyboard to appear when you are in a pinch and need to do this.

    I do not have these problems, but I am careful how I backup and restore data. There is an app called Titanium Backup that can fully backup and restore your apps and data, including maintaining links to the market for future updates, but as long as you do not try to restore system information - your gmail data, your SMS messages, your call logs - to your phone using Titanium, you will be fine. There are apps that can backup and restore SMS messages and call logs between Android versions (SMS Backup & Restore, Call Log Backup & Restore) and these work just fine for that. And,of course, Gmail repopulates with your first sync - you just need to change any custom settings, like ringtones, default behavior, signatures, etc.

    That said, right now I am staying with GSB going forward. I see absolutely no reason right now to go back. As I said, I have xtrROM around just in case I want to make programming changes to the actual radio, so there's no need to restore data - I just go in quickly and then go back to CELB (or, now, GSB.)

    A few things:

    1. Unlike xtrROM, GSB does not include any Google apps by default. There is a second download and flash that you must do to get the market and the Google setup installed before you restart the phone. So, you

    - download GSB and the Google apps package in that thread
    - Nandroid backup what you have now
    - Wipe data and wipe Dalvik
    - Flash GSB
    - Flash gapps
    - Restart the phone

    2. Unlike xtrROM, GSB (and the other Froyo ROMs) do not have cache2cache as an option, so there is less room for apps and data. However, Zach.xtr has created a flashable zip that works with most Froyo and all GB ROMs that gives cache2cache functionality. It works just fine, but, again, adds one more flash to the steps above.

    - download GSB and the Google apps package in that thread
    - Nandroid backup what you have now
    - Wipe data and wipe Dalvik
    - Flash GSB
    - Flash gapps
    - Flash xtrcache2cache
    - Restart the phone

    3. After you restart the phone and go through the setup, GSB *should* start automatically downloading and installing your apps in the background. It will take about 30 minutes to an hour, and it is hard to tell that it is happening, except that the phone feels sluggish. If you watch the app drawer you will see your apps start populating the app drawer, though.

    While all of this is happening, you may want to go into settings->CyanogenMod settings->Performance and change some settings there (do not restart the phone until you get the notification that you apps were restored.) I turn on JIT and set "leave home in memory". You may also want to poke around in the other CyanogenMod settings - if you like the default HTC lockscreen pull-down method, you may want to either use the "lense" lockscreen or the default "Rotary revamped" with "drag down to unlock) turned on (this will let you rotary drag left to toggle the ringer off and on without waking the phone, for example.)

    Also, watch the notifications for the apps that do not install. I had quite a few - about a half dozen - that threw up a notification that they could not install, with the reason that there was not enough space. However, after tapping those notifications one by one (which brought me to the market location for that app) and tapping install manually, they all installed just fine.

    4. Vitally important! So far, all updates to GSB have required only a Dalvik wipe - you can install over the update without wiping data. However, you must always reflash gapps before restarting the phone. Also, if you did install xtrcache2cache, you must always reflash that before restarting the phone. Nandroid backups will be big in the off chance you forget to do this.

    So, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the steps to install a no-wipe update are:

    - download the GSB update
    - Nandroid backup what you have now
    - Wipe Dalvik only - do not wipe data (unless you want to go through the setup again)
    - Flash GSB
    - Flash gapps
    - (optional) Flash xtrcache2cache
    - Restart the phone

    5. By the way, you can flash xtrcache2cache at any time. It doesn't have to be when you first install the ROM.

    GSB and the gapps: [ROM] GSB v1.6 | GingerBread 2.3.2 [CM7.0.0 RC1 NIGHTLY][2-18-2011] - xda-developers

    xtrcache2cache: [SCRIPT][1/22/2011] A Simple Cache2Cache for CM 6.x and 7.x ROMs - xda-developers


    Purely my speculation. Remember also that the DInc has more RAM and internal storage.


    So far I have had only one app with a problem - Dictionary.com's dictionary app. It simply will not automatically update for me. It's not sorely missed at all.

    There was another app that somebody suggested I try - something for toggling settings - but it is set to work for 2.1 and 2.2 and isn't even visible in the market for 2.3, and I cannot install from market.android.com (which is how I found out it was not for my version of Android.) Again, there are alternate apps. I have 65 or so apps installed, and all are working just fine, and I just have that weird issue with the dictionary app being unable to update.
     
    bberryhill0 likes this.
  6. cmotion

    cmotion Well-Known Member
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    I believe the Weather Channel app also does not function with Gingerbread (as of last week, they could have fixed the problem by now). Here's a link to an article about it.
     
  7. cmotion

    cmotion Well-Known Member
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    Also, in regards to xtrROM slowing down... I guess I only rarely use my phone-- as an actual phone. I'm more of a text/web guy who makes the occasional phone call. So maybe if I had used it more for phone calls perhaps I would've noticed a slow-down as well, but for as long as I had it it was always super fast for me. I also am currently using Gingerbread (GSB1.6) and it's been working out really well so far.
     
  8. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    After looking just now, there is an app that I use that is only compatible up to Android-OS 2.2 according to the blurb on the market. As I would not use a smartphone without this app I might not be able to upgrade for now. At least not to GSB. Maybe a Froyo ROM.

    Thanks for the thorough explanation though. I'm sure it will help other onlookers if not myself.
    And maybe when the developers of this app update it to 2.3 it will help me as well.
     
  9. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    Did you use a task-killer with xtrROM?
     
  10. cmotion

    cmotion Well-Known Member
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    I did not use a task-killer, and I don't think I messed with any of the default ROM settings either (left CPU speed at whatever default was, didn't turn on JIT, etc.)
     
  11. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    Well that is what I'm doing, and aside from the phone and occaissional SMS slowness, the phone is pretty quick.

    And I probably use my Eris as a phone about 40% of the time, an SMS messenger 30% of the time, and an app-running maching the other 30%.

    And the lag that I have is not as much as it was when my Eris was stock.
    And it's not so bad that I can't live with it. It's just that it's not as fast as it was when I first flashed it, and that was disappointing.

    I may just live with it. We'll see.
     
  12. doogald

    doogald Extreme Android User
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    Let me know which app it is and I'll give it a shot.

    CELB Froyo is also a great ROM, by the way. My explanations above all hold, with a couple of exceptions I'll explain a little later on (i.e., I don't think that there is a GPS lock fix yet, xtrcache2cache works great with CELB, the undead call problem will require a quick gscript run every time you update the ROM - though the number of updates may not be all that many going forward.)

    Again, which app and I'll see if I can get it running...
     
  13. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    The GPS works if you are only using it for a few minutes right? I had heard that the glitch only appears when you are using it for a long time, like 30 minutes or so. Even then, if you restart it will it work again?

    This is the app in question. And again I don't know for sure that it won't work with 2.3, but it says it's only good from 1.5 - 2.2

    http://market.android.com/details?id=cc.updatable.doubleagent&feature=search_result


    Thanks for all the help.



    edit: Just thought of something. It's not a free app, and you're probably not going to want to spend money to test it out for me. lol
    Nevermind.
     
  14. ksyrium

    ksyrium Newbie
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    To the OP, I've had a pretty similiar experience. I'm running xtrSENSE 4.6 and I've seen lag, most noticeable with the dialer, get really bad. In the past I've had a 15-20 second delay just to bring up the dialer.

    I've tried a number of things to help and recently, the issue has not been as bad. Here's what I've tried:

    - Memory management: I think this is probabaly the biggest issue for me. I have lots of apps installed and memory was getting low. Even though Android tries to manage this I think it was past the point of being able to really deal with it. I keep the Memory Status widget on my home screen and watch it pretty carefully. I don't remember exactly what the different values mean but I know that if Int or RAM get below 40M or so then things begin to slow down. To help with this, I use the AutoKiller Memory Optimizer currently with the "Aggressive" preset. I was using "Extreme" at one point but I'm trying to dial things back a bit and thus going with Aggressive at the moment...

    - Cache: I use CacheMate to help keep my caches free which helps with the memory issues.

    - CPU speed: I've overclocked to 710Mhz but I'm guessing you've already done something like that.

    - Call log: I read somewhere that dialer lag can be due to a large call log. So, to help with that I'm using the Call Log Trimmer which seems to work very nicely.

    - Home/Launcher app: I don't know if this matters or not but as much as I like Sense, I've been experimenting with different home apps. I tried quite a few and for me, I like Tag Home the best.

    Again, I think keeping as much free memory as possible is the key for me. Also, I'm careful to watch for things that might be running in the background and hogging CPU. I find Android System Info helpful for identifying any CPU hogs.
     
  15. doogald

    doogald Extreme Android User
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    You can get a refund on apps within 15 minutes of install. Which I did.

    It installs and runs just fine on GSB, though, of course, using it for just a few minutes I have no idea if it actually would be stable.

    Seeing what this app is - and I get why you want to use it - have you given any thought to the idea that perhaps it is this app, though, that may be causing slowdowns? That said, it won't hurt to try it.

    I rarely ever Navigate with my phone - it's a good way to eat battery and heat whatever my phone is touching, in the tests that I have done - it is my understanding that with CELB, yes, it is roughly after 30 minutes of use that the GPS loses lock. But I'll let others who have struggled with this comment...
     
  16. erisuser1

    erisuser1 Android Expert
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    Thought I would throw this out there for consideration.

    All modern O/S'es can be forced to their knees with intentionally abusive techniques. (Hang on a second, I'm not saying you abuse your phone, either intentionally or unintentionally!).

    There are three primary ways this happens:

    1) One or many "compute-intensive" tasks that are always available to run. (That is, they are not blocked by an I/O wait condition and are never "idle" - the scheduler decides "I need to give this/these process(es) as much time as possible). Net result: other processes get starved for CPU cycles and "slow down"

    2) One (or many) processes that use large amounts of Virtual Memory. This exhausts available free memory for file caching operations, and so the kernel makes processes "wait" to finish slow I/O operations (there is no "free" memory to read/write from/to, so the slower mass storage devices need to be used). Net result: all processes doing file I/O slow down.

    3) Sometimes (rarely these days) kernel schedulers avoid interrupting processes that are waiting for an I/O operation to complete, and all other processes on the machine receive less than the optimal amount of time-slicing. Net result: interactive applications become less responsive to user input.

    So, when a phone gets slow, the three questions to ask are:

    (1) Are there lots of processes which are in a runnable state?
    (2) Is there enough free memory available?
    (3) Is there something running which is reading/writing lots and lots of data?


    About a month ago, I looked at #2 from the following perspective: do long-running Android processes (e.g. "system_server", "com.android.phone", "android.process.acore", "com.google.process.gapps") tend to grow with time?

    Answer: Yes, unfortunately.

    What this means is that even if you keep your phone scrubbed shiny and clean, and manually kill off tasks so that little is running - if you never reboot, your phone will slow down anyway because of inexorable memory growth of these long-running Android processes. So, the moral of the story is: reboot your phone every other day or so. You don't want this interfering with your daily routine, so do it just before you go to bed, or when you know you are going/doing something without your phone. It only takes a couple minutes, and you won't notice it if you are off doing something else.

    Backstory: I piped the output of the "procrank" command into a file shortly after booting, and then again 24 or 48 hours later, and then compared the memory statistics on a per-process-id basis. I was actually looking to see if there was a single process that was growing - this phenomenon happens sometimes and is known as a "memory leak". Much to my surprise, I found that many of the long-running Android processes seem to grow slowly with time. (This was for a Froyo ROM; things might have been improved with Gingerbread - I need to repeat the same experiment). Since those processes need to be running, about the only thing you can do is restart them - either individually, or en masse with a reboot. (Doing a reboot is easiest because you get them all with two clicks.)

    So, reboot your phone regularly - and figure out a time to do it where you won't notice the 3-4 minutes it is unavailable.
     
  17. Bob Cat

    Bob Cat Careful, They're sharp!!
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    I will sometimes reboot twice a day. But read other post where people don't reboot for days.
     
  18. Jomboni

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    If you're still on xtrRom, try running the "set_memory_strict" script in the gscript app, it's sped things up quite a bit for me. It basically does the same thing as the AutoKiller app.
     
  19. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    I have only a handful of non-stock apps on my phone, so that isn't an issue for me.

    The ROM I'm using is by default overclocked to 710mhz.

    The only thing I might try is that Call Log Trimmer. But let me ask you this, would the speed I might gain by keeping the call log short be negated by having an extra process running in the background using resources?
     
  20. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    Cool, thanks for checking into it for me. That is good to know.
    I am sure it uses some resources, but probably only when I'm in the app store or the browser. My phone is slow normally when I'm using the dialer, so I am not sure if it is the culprit, but I'm not saying it's not. If it is, I'll just have to live with it though. Another thing is, not a lot of people use that app, but tons of people experience the progressive slowness that I am mentioning, so maybe that is evidence that the app isn't (at least not fully) to blame.

    I use GPS a lot, but typically never for more than a few minutes at a time. So it might be an issue for me, but probably not a big one. But if my app runs in GB, I will bypass Froyo anyway, so it doesn't matter.
     
  21. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    I practically never reboot my phone, unless there is some reason to. But if it would help speed, I could find time to do it. I know it will work, because I always notice the Eris to be snappier after a reboot anyway. I could even do it once a day, maybe set a daily calendar event to remind me or an alarm.

    It is slightly inconvenient, but if it makes a big difference it would be worth it.

    You would think that the OS would manage the size of those files better. Maybe set an upper limit, and automatically kick out the oldest data when new data comes in.

    Thanks for the tip!
     
  22. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    I tried that for a little while. I couldn't tell any difference.
    At doogald's suggestion, I am on "balanced" right now.
     
  23. ksyrium

    ksyrium Newbie
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    I don't think that the Call Log Trimmer would have a significant effect on resource consumption. And since you mention dialer lag, I think it could be worth trying. I have not completely figured out the relationship between the Android dialer and the People app (contacts) and call history. However, I notice when you start the dialer that it combines the recent call history with your list of contacts. So, it seemed to make sense to me that having a really large call history could slow down the startup time for the dialer. Perhaps there's someone else that can explain a bit better what goes on when the dialer is loading...

    Just out of curiosity, what are your memory consumption numbers? As I said, when I am showing Int and RAM at 40M and greater, things (i.e. response time) look pretty good. As it turns out, I loaded a new app (Pulse reader) yesterday and it took my memory usage down to 20-30M. And, sure enough, the phone began to feel sluggish. So as I said before, at least for me, there seems to be a strong correlation between a low memory condition and phone lag.
     
  24. offanairplane

    offanairplane Android Enthusiast
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    I may give it a try.
    To add more info, it's not that the dialer takes a long time to load up. It's that when I tap a contact to call them, it takes a long time for the phone to bring up the call screen and start dialing.


    The only way I know of to check that is this: Menu>>Preferences>>Advanced Settings>>Show Memory Usage.
    And it puts the number on top of the screen. Right now it shows 11,877kb, but when I open the dialer it goes away, so I can't tell if it jumps up or not. Is there another way?
     
  25. ksyrium

    ksyrium Newbie
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    I'm not sure I quite understand the difference here... Can you give the steps you are following? Are you clicking the phone icon (or something similar) and then tapping a name in the list and that's when you see the delay? I refer to that as dialer lag though perhaps I was being a bit imprecise...

    As for checking memory consumption, I'm not following this either :) Where are you executing this command? I'm running xtrSENSE 4.6 and perhaps things are different with that ROM? Anyway, the Memory Status widget I mentioned earlier is convenient since it can sit right on a home screen. And by the way, 11M does not sound like a lot unless this is just the size of an app or something...
     

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