Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by Gmash, Aug 23, 2012.
To be fair I guess I wasn't shocked at all.
So, what is everybody doing to prepare for the Civil War II? I'm hoarding beer and beef jerky.
I've read red wine is better for you, need to stay healthy for those cavalry charges.
Imma be a slave and flip flop with sides...
Dumbass. Luckily he doesn't have much power.
I agree with A.Nonymou's comparison on picking a party.
I also firmly believe that we are flirting with a civil war. I don't buy into very much of the conjecture from any one. NWO, Fema camps and the like. I wish to not be painted with that brush.
Most of what has been discussed in this thread is the partisian bickering that all of these threads break down to. This is no accident. We are a house divided.
Throw all of the social issues out the window and look at the commonality between the last 2 administrations. Obama carried on a lot of Bush policy.
Both administrations combined have produced a net loss of civil rights.
No one can argue that many of the policies and law inacted under Bush traded freedom for security.
Franklin said any one who would do that deserved niether.
Obama let stand, reaffirmed and built on much of this security policy, to the point it appears to be a shared agenda.
On Dec 31 Big O signed a bipartisan bill he said he wouldn't. Who was watching, it was a holiday?
This Bill plainly stated says if you commit a crime against the Fed you can be stripped of due process and treated as an enemy combatant. What these crimes are is loosely difined and don't take a new Bill to change. Your senator might vote yes on a trade bill and there could be a rider that attached that defines protesting with out a permit as a crime against the Fed.
Gitmo any one?
Look at who is considered a potential domestic terrorist these days. Most of us replying to this thread make the cut.
That law is a stepping stone for a Bill that is in process right now. This bill will allow them to strip native born citizens f their citizenship. For the same vague list of crimes against the Fed.
I know some one who lost their citizenship and was deported to the country of origin even though he entered the states after 10 years living in a 3rd country. No trial no conviction, sent home and on the streets free. The insight I got into this causes a big red flag about this new Bill.
If your country of origin is the U.S. where will they deport you to. No one has to accept you. Gitmo?
Then the recent news about DHS buying large quantities of hallow point ammo is a bit alarming. Being familiar with firearms I know that the purpose of this is not training and not for military use, the type of ammo is banned by the Geneva Conv.
The Fed is expecting unrest and preparring for it openly. Track the contract bids for DHS.
Pheonix last October saw a chilling incident. After the police treatment of protester in other cities a local Militia took they threats of local officials seriously and showed up fully geared and armed and formed a skirmish line between police and the protesters. Protecting the liberty of Americans with far different beliefs.
It was beautifully patriotic, what concerns me is, what stance will thse trying to consolidate power in DC do when we stop falling for the sham of ultra partisanship.
And even more scary is if they had actually traded shots. This time it was a peacefull display. If it happens again and that is a real possibilty it would be a different city a different militia and police force. If it ended in a firefight bettween police and militia protecting protesters rights, will there be any way to curb the spiral of reactionism and rage that would follow. I don't believe there would be in the current political climate.
Yeah Gmash this Judge sounds like a wingnut and my opinion is it doesn't matter who is Elected but that doesn't mean we aren't in trouble. We need to leave all the patisan crap out of it and discuss the track freedom is on.
We are already in a Cold Civil War now. It is going to get worse with every one of these new policies and laws that chip away at freedom.
Well, I dont see how Obama being reelected would lead to civil war. He very conservative and moderate in general. The only thing that would lead to civil war would be states seceding. Of course then you have to ask what state(s) would be Serbia, and what ones Bosnia...
The Judge is the one conjecturing on Obama's reelction triggering it. 5hats obvious he is super imposing his political beliefs on a real problem.
A civil war does not require a State to suceed. Civil-civillian. Iraq is in the middle of a civil war and most violent revolutions are civil wars including our own. Many Brittish Loyalists fought on the side of the Monarchy.
The ultra partisan rift in this Nation is a Cold Civil War. We are divided and niether side is working to mend the rift. Both sides see their position as right and are willing to fight over it. You are with us or against us is not a far leap from you are with us or you are the enemy.
But I just dont see citizens taking arms against each other turning into an all out nationwide civil war. Do Americans really have that kind of personal armory?
Do they have the armory? Yes. Do I see it happening? No.
Yes and some are properly trained.
Anarchist Leader In Assassination Plot Was Apparently A Page At The 2008 GOP Convention - Business Insider
Aguigui allegedly started an Anarchist group that branded itself with anarchy tattoos, openly recruited, and stock piled weapons, in an alleged plot to overthrow the government and kill Barack Obama.
Their plan ran into a snag though when one of their member, Michael Roark, allegedly had second thoughts.
Aguigui is accused of "silencing" Roark and his 17-year-old girlfriend, Tiffany York, in a messy execution in the woods
But I mean, these militias would likely be no match for the military... one would hope.
the guy is a idiot.
Well, the terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq are no match for the military on paper. They're not as well trained. Not as well armed. But they keep hanging around.
I wouldn't be shocked if one of them has a gunship or something, but the military is going to have better air support. I wouldn't be shocked if one of these militias has an older tank. Beyond that they probably have no more armor than a tripped out Humvee. I am almost certain that when it comes to hand weapons they've got everything from handguns to RPGs stashed away somewhere.
How about a Army base with new tanks, gunships, etc.
News From The Associated Press
Prosecutors say the group plotted to take over Fort Stewart and to bomb a dam in Washington state and poison the state's apple crop. Authorities have said the militia's ultimate goal was to overthrow the government.
Well, thats because NATO is charged with protecting civilians.
If there was a war *against* Afghanistan, the Taliban and civilians alike would be bombed to ashes.
A.Nonymous beat me to the post bring up the "insurgents" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
No one is planning a head to head fight with the U.S. military. During the days of our Revolution and even our Civil war you could get a group together train and arm your self with the latest military equipment. Call your self an Army and have a Conventional War. Not any more, our rights to keep and bare arms haven't kept up with Federalism or Military technology.
You must be very careful with the word militia. Means a lot of different things depending on perspective and context.
Groups like the Hooturee or how ever they spelled it, are not militias.The Michigan Militia is a militia. Organized well regulated with their sole purpose to exist is to protect the citizens of Michigan, the United States and the Constitution from enemies Foreign or Domestic. If a militia group espouses any other rhetoric than that they are not a militia they are a paramilitary group. Is there a gray area with individual members behavior, yes. Though it probably pales compared to the same problem in the NYP.
The man who led the Feds to the Houteree criminals was a Michigan Militia commander and is a practicing Muslim. They are not anti-Government subversives.
I can guarantee that if it does come it will be exactly the same tactics as were used in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is illogical to think that our troops did not learn these tactics as they were countering them and the ranks of all paramilitary groups and militias are full of former soldiers and many active duty soldiers and National Guardsmen.
Its quite possible that if shooting starts many soldiers are going to grab what ever is portable and go over to the militias. There would be massive sabotage. Its quite possible with so many of our assets scattered around the globe that the Military and Law enforcement might not be able to keep law and order much less mount an offensive.
With tensions as high as they are now and the economy a mess it could be sparked by a small group and spiral out of control.
Look up a group called Th Oath Keepers, these are active duty law enforcement. Out west we have Sheriffs in open opposition to the Government because of the BLM. Threatening to arrest Federal Agents for r cattle theft and various other crimes and the Feds threatening long prison terms.
Then you have the occupy movement who is the far left getting back into radical tactics. Think what you want of their politics but do not dismiss the importance of it.
Speaking of them. Ignore the side shows and distraction and the core thing that Them, the militias and Anonymous are about is the loss of civil rights. The first being the most often referenced.
Anonymous. An International group of hackers who our Government is powerless to stop that could wreck havoc in this country any time they choose. They have no leadership, they are neck deep in the "Arab Spring" and have declared war on the government over the !st amendment. Today its just Ddos tomorrow it could be the power grid.
Every where you look people are pissed off at the Government, most for valid reasons.
I admit I think, but have grave doubts of your clairvoyant abilities.
Ever heard how the Federal Reserve was created on Jekyll Island ?
Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"A revision crafted during a secret meeting on Jekyll Island by Senator Aldrich and representatives of the nation's top finance and industrial groups later became the basis of the Federal Reserve Act.[35"
I agree with some of what PH8AL says, I was against the scare tactics Bush used to take civil rights away, and am against their being continued or built upon by Obama or anyone else.I was amazed how easily people went along with that BS in the first place. However, I still find the idea of a civil war far-fetched. Only the most fanatic and possibly mentally disturbed would kill other Americans through insurgent bombings. Most Americans are either too level headed or lazy to take up arms against the government anyway. Also as stated above, any such uprising would be squashed like a bug. I do agree that a fringe group committing strategic bombings could do damage to the economy, but no real threat to overthrow the government, even if they somehow managed to get control of one military base, which is highly unlikely itself.
Thats kind of why one would imagine any civil war would have to be started with a secession. Even then though I doubt a proper civil war as such would occur, the only civil war in a developed country was in Yugoslavia and that was caused by a shattered economy turning into inter-ethnic distrust.
I don't think states would have to secede to start a civil war at all. We've seen many many civil wars historically that didn't involve secession.
There is definitely a deep seated distrust here and we've seen it in this forum. You have people who are poor and middle class who deeply distrust and even hate the rich. The people on the right hate everything the left stands for and vice versa. Both sides have their fringe groups. The economy is still in the crapper and has been for a decade despite the ministrations of both parties. I think a lot of the elements are there, but I don't see it happening.
If militia groups think they can take over a military base and/or that soldiers will defect to their sides in droves I think they are deeply mistaken. Americans as a whole deeply distrust their government, but it's a bit step between distrust and treason.
In a developed country?
Need to take the blinders off.
Americans kill each other over minor crap every day.
We have been indoctrinated our whole lives to believe the Fed and Military is all powerful. Simply is not true.
Our own Revolution didn't start with an army it started with a couple dozen militiamen standing up to the British in a town square. They call it the shot heard round the world.
We are being stripped of our civil rights by a Federal Government that has over stepped its mandate and it is coming quickly to the point where its stand up and fight or accept we are no longer a free people.
The answers here are scattered all through our history.
Believing it can't happen here is denial and delusion.
Not saying they're all powerful. Just saying they've got far more firepower than any local militia does. If the military doesn't care about casualties, they can turn a militia base to dust without putting any boots on the ground. Now there would be a big PR backlash from bombing the bejesus out of your own people on your own soil, but they have the capabilities to do it. The same can't be said about the militias. It is one thing to fight a war where you are on home turf and the people you are fighting have to come over by boat from another country. It's another thing to fight a war where the enemy is literally just down the street.
The Brits had muskets. This is a different world. Not saying it "can't" happen, but realistically we're a long way from open rebellion in this country in my opinion. Sure, rhetoric is heated, but it always has been.