The Metric System... Why not?

[ElasticNinja]

So will changing from imperial to metric.

remember how you learned to count? on your hands
we can change, but decimal isnt an awful system, unlike imperial measures

 

[Bob Maxey]

And if everyone's doing it... it must be the best thing to do.



And? A good understanding of a binary based numbering system is absolutely something that EVERY child should have in today's world.

Decimal is outdated, and I honestly don't expect it to be used much in about 150 years.

There is nothing more arbitrary than decimal.

Whether we go binary (2) based number system,

a quadrary number system (2 to the second power) ,

an octal (2 to the third power),

or a hexidecimal (2 to the fourth power),

or a 32 based numbering system (2 to the 5th power),

or even a 64 based numbering system (2 to the 6th power).

These are the numbering systems required to function in the technological world of the future, and Decimal is only hinders that.

Why dear friend, do kids of tomorrow need to know the quadrary or other systems? Perhaps we teach them to read and write and use critical thinking before we implode their brain with things they likely do not really need. If there is time left over, fine.

Unless they are going to be professional forum posters, then all they really need to learn is how to copy and paste and type the word Wikepedia; the source of all human knowledge.

You said, "A good understanding of a binary based numbering system is absolutely something that EVERY child should have in today's world."

So what do you think that? Programmers, yes they need to know that stuff. So again, why?

Bob

 

[ElasticNinja]

logic is why

 

[Ichapp]

In the UK, shots of whisky and other spirits have been standardised for a long time:

Snip

I did not know that. I believe in North America that the shot is still unstandardized, and that is what I based my (less than globally respectful) statement on. My bad; I will strive to do better next time.

The issue I have with this is that the multipliers used in the metric system are just as arbitrary as those used in the imperial system. 10 millimeters in a centimeter, 100 centimeters in a meter, and 1000 meters in a kilometer.

We presently live in a technological age. As such why would we use an archaic system like base 10 (decimal) when much of the world's technology now uses base 16 (hexidecimal).

The metric system most definitely has it's merits... but it's neither the end all nor be all of measurement systems. Either system works for individuals who are educated in their use.

Aside from a couple, standard multipliers in SI are based on the number grouping that (presumably) began to make large numbers easier to read. Those which I've excepted are centi-, deci-, deca-, and hecto-. I'm not a fan of these, and don't have much explanation for them. The others I will defend from being labelled arbitrary.

Decimal is, as somebody pointed out, a system which we adopted because it comes naturally to us with ten digits on our hands. I'm not going to make an argument for or against hexadecimal vs decimal. I'm arguing for SI, which is based on and takes full advantage of the number system that we use.

It's not the be all and end all, but until we find one that is, I'm going to stick with SI. It's like Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried. Yes, others can work, but arguing this is almost as weak as saying "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." Why not jump up to the best we've got, and if you think you can do better, innovate.

 

[Bob Maxey]

logic is why

Lets see, there are 12 inches in a foot and three feet in a yard. Half a yard is 1 and one half feet and two yards is 72 inches. You can easily divide the inch into quarters and halves; one inch equals two halves or 4 quarters. Six inches can be quickly divided into quarters and halves in me crazy, old head.

There are 25.4 mm in an inch and 304.8 mm in a foot. A foot equals 0.3048 meters and a yard equals 0.9144 meters. Most people need to think about dividing 0.9144 by 2. but have few problems dividing a three foot length in half.

So when you say the metric system is logical and the other not so, it pays to consider that it is much easier to learn that one yard equals three feet and one foot equals 12 inches. And 12 inches is just as accurate as 304.8 mm because 12.0 inches is equal to 304.8 mm.

Perhaps if accuracy is vital, the mm measurement is more difficult to hit because of the small divisions required. The metric system is useful for some things, but it is not the be all and end all.

When I was in the photo biz, I had to deal with the metric system every day. For example, when sizing adapters, step-up, and step-down rings. Not to mention, Leica and Hasselblad lens accessories.

Don't be a metric Fanboy(Smiley)

Bob

Bob's First Internet Corollary: Everyone, eventually, and given enough on-line time, will become a Fanboy of something trivial.

 

[byteware]

remember how you learned to count? on your hands
we can change, but decimal isnt an awful system, unlike imperial measures

Both are matters of opinion. In this case, yours.

Why dear friend, do kids of tomorrow need to know the quadrary or other systems? Perhaps we teach them to read and write and use critical thinking before we implode their brain with things they likely do not really need. If there is time left over, fine.

Unless they are going to be professional forum posters, then all they really need to learn is how to copy and paste and type the word Wikepedia; the source of all human knowledge.

You said, "A good understanding of a binary based numbering system is absolutely something that EVERY child should have in today's world."

So what do you think that? Programmers, yes they need to know that stuff. So again, why?

Bob

Almost every single profession is heading towards being computerized. Even automobile manufacturing positions now require some level of computer familiarity.

Understanding computers and the way they think isn't just about programmers, it's integrated into just about everything you do.

For instance... how many megabytes are in a gigabyte...

1024.

Why?

It's binary... 2 to the 10th power = 1024.

It's as close as binary comes to a thousand.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Don't be a metric Fanboy(Smiley)

Bob

when you can't win, play the fanboy card

 

[Bob Maxey]

Both are matters of opinion. In this case, yours.

Almost every single profession is heading towards being computerized. Even automobile manufacturing positions now require some level of computer familiarity.

Understanding computers and the way they think isn't just about programmers, it's integrated into just about everything you do.

For instance... how many megabytes are in a gigabyte...

1024.

Why?

It's binary... 2 to the 10th power = 1024.

It's as close as binary comes to a thousand.

Manufacturing positions do require some computer knowledge, tis true. Having been in the manufacturing business full time and still in it as a technical writer, I can tell you there was no serious need for the workers to know how our test programs function. All the production wonks needed to know was insert card into slot, wait for red light, press green test button, and mark the unit either pass or fail, depending on what was displayed on the monitor.

Do the majority of operators really need to know about programming as you seem to suggest? No, they need to know which buttons to push and where the e-stop button is located. It is like saying a coffee shop waitress needs to know the chemistry behind how bread rises or yeast works in order to serve you toast with two eggs sunny side up and spuds.

As for how many gigglflooeys are in a quadbot, not needed and the vast majority of users could give a rats terraflop about the math.

I absolutely need my computer. Do I need to know how MS-Access fetches data from an array or when the program will pull something from a DLL file and how it is manipulated to display a string in a label field or report to use Access? Do I need to know how Word does what it does? No, I just use the programs.

Bob

 

[Bob Maxey]

when you can't win, play the fanboy card

Didn't the (Smiley) indicate something? God created smileys for a reason, so please consider them.

Bob (Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley)(Smiley) Maxey

 

[cjr72]

Even many programmers, depending on how high level the programming language is, don't directly deal with binary all that often.

 

[Bob Maxey]

So back to the topic: why or why not is the metric system needed in the United States or is a good idea.

Perhaps one can argue that the world will force us to change so we had better learn our millimeters. What specific technical reasons.

Bob

 

[batgeek]

there is none. learn both. apply as necessary.

 

[byteware]

Even many programmers, depending on how high level the programming language is, don't directly deal with binary all that often.

Regardless of how high the level of programming is... we deal with binary. Unless of course, you never ever deal with files or encoding...

 

[cjr72]

Regardless of how high the level of programming is... we deal with binary. Unless of course, you never ever deal with files or encoding...

Well for my day to day needs at work I'm ok with the compiler taking care of the binary side of things. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying programmers shouldn't have an understanding of counting in base 2 or boolean logic for that matter.

 

[ElasticNinja]

my point regarding binary etc is that it would give an understanding of how numbers actually work

 

[Ichapp]

For instance... how many megabytes are in a gigabyte...

1024.

Why?

It's binary... 2 to the 10th power = 1024.

It's as close as binary comes to a thousand.

Disputed. A gigabyte is either 1000 or 1024 megabytes. It depends on who is making the claim and which standards are being followed. For example, your hard drive will claim to be one terabyte, and it is 1 000 000 000 000 bytes. If you plug it into a Windows computer, you'll be told that it is ~909 gigabytes.

The best way around this is to use mega to mean 10^6, while if you wish to claim 2^20 bytes, say mebibyte.

my point regarding binary etc is that it would give an understanding of how numbers actually work

Could you elaborate on this? Explain, perhaps, how working in binary gives an understanding of how numbers work that decimal does not?

 

[Bob Maxey]

my point regarding binary etc is that it would give an understanding of how numbers actually work

But I already know how numbers work and I have Google for the really tricky ones.

Bob Maxey
"Remember, Mr. Google is not a Professor and Wikepedia is not really a college"

 

[ElasticNinja]

Could you elaborate on this? Explain, perhaps, how working in binary gives an understanding of how numbers work that decimal does not?

i mean, giving students the idea that the way we structure numbers is not the only way

 

[byteware]

Disputed. A gigabyte is either 1000 or 1024 megabytes. It depends on who is making the claim and which standards are being followed. For example, your hard drive will claim to be one terabyte, and it is 1 000 000 000 000 bytes. If you plug it into a Windows computer, you'll be told that it is ~909 gigabytes.

I have a couple of terabyte drives in my server, and that's not the case. Sorry.

Source please.

Could you elaborate on this? Explain, perhaps, how working in binary gives an understanding of how numbers work that decimal does not?

Most people don't understand that 10 in decimal means ten, not because it represents a ten, but because it has a 1 in the ten's place.

Binary, Decimal, Hexadecimal, Octal, etc... all work the same way... they all work the EXACT same way... people don't understand that because they really aren't taught the basic principles of numbering systems.

 

[ElasticNinja]

1024x1024 is the proper way
HDD manufacturers change it for their benefit

 

[Ichapp]

Source is Wikipedia's article on megabyte:

The term remains ambiguous and it can follow any one of the following common definitions:

• 1000000 bytes (10002, 106): This is the definition recommended by the International System of Units (SI) and the International Electrotechnical Commission IEC. This definition is used in networking contexts and most storage media, particularly hard drives, Flash-based storage, and DVDs, and is also consistent with the other uses of the SI prefix in computing, such as CPU clock speeds or measures of performance. The Mac OS X 10.6 file manager is a notable example of this usage in software. Since Snow Leopard, file sizes are reported in decimal units.
• 1048576 bytes (10242, 220): This definition is most commonly used in reference to computer memory, but most software that display file size or drive capacity, including file managers also use this definition. See Consumer confusion (in the "gigabyte" article). The Microsoft Windows file manager is a notable example of this usage in software.
• 1024000 bytes (1000

 

[byteware]

Source is Wikipedia's article on megabyte:

Say it with me now... Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

 

[Dark Jedi]

Say it with me now... Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

But still people will use it as a source because its easier to wiki than to do actual research.

 

[Bob Maxey]

But still people will use it as a source because its easier to wiki than to do actual research.

I'll give you that.

But, when someone posts something to a forum or group, they are by default saying the post is true. So perhaps if posters are passionate about something, it would serve them well to double check sources before posting.

In my line of work, research is vital because the consequences of poor research can be dire in some cases.

Just saying . . .

Bob

 

[Ichapp]

Fine, if you're going to be part of that sinking ship, I'll cater to you once. Apple, then.

Fact is, Wikipedia is sourced. But that's also another topic, best left for another thread. Any more coming on the metric system?