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Root Unwanted Apps and associated concerns

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by Zola Eclipse, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    Firstly, I'm new to this forum in that it's my first post.

    I was sent here by a "friend" who had advised me that by rooting my Desire I could get rid of unwanted apps (in response to my complaining about the lack of internal memory) and told me which tutroials to use/follow.

    Now the further I get into it the more I am concerned. The rabbit hole gets deeper.

    I have rooted my phone using Unrevoked3, then backed up apps and data (Appmonster and MyBackup) and copied to PC. Then created a goldcard which is sitting in a file on my pc in case I need to use it. I've installed Titanium Backup (Free) app and backed up apps and data and copied to PC. Finaly I have gone into recovery and run a backup.

    I've hit a point now where I've gone so deep I don't want to go any further for fear of damaging things. (I've modded consoles and such in the past without fear but I think my love for my Desire has frozen me for now).

    I guess what I'm asking is can I use Titanium to remove unwanted preinstalled apps?

    Have the steps I've taken done anything useful and should I be doing more to complete my steps.

    When it comes to my Network provider rolling out 2.3, can I fdo it easily via them or do I need to look elsewhere?

    Can you see the confusion I've brought on myself. I feel pretty damned foolish and so any help/reassurances would be greatly appreciated.

    PS, I will not be following my friends' advice again.

    Thanks in advance.
     

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  2. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    You have been slightly mis informed. Yes rooting can remove system apps but this will not increase your "internal memory".

    All apps you install are in /data/app (partition/directory). The /data partition is the "internal memory"

    System apps are in the rom, in /system/app.

    System space cannot be reused as internal memory without doing some additional (and not for novices) steps.

    Now you havent done anything wrong yet. I recommend you look into a2sd (apps2sd+) as per the FAQ in my sig. This is probably the best way to obtain more space.
     
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  3. No_u

    No_u Android Enthusiast
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    Since you're rooted anyway, why not try a custom ROM as well? They're much much better then default and most already have Gingerbread.
     
  4. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    Thanks so much for the quick response.

    You've put my mind at ease somewhat and that I guess was the main thing for me.

    I'll take a look into apps2sd+ as you have suggested.

    Might I ask a few more things?

    • I have turned off auto updating. Is this the right thing to do or should I only worry about this if I flash a new ROM? My guesses are that any updates (2.3 or future) could potentially wipe the mod (rooting) I've applied?
    • My internal memory is showing as 65.5MB of 154MB (according to Titanium) leaving a deficit of nearly 90MB. Is there a nice clear, noob friendly way of seeing what is actually taking up this 90MB? And then doing something about it?
    These (should) be my last questions in this thread and if I'm going about this the wrong way please tell me. I don't want to start off in this forum on the wrong foot.

    Thanks again for your help so far.
     
  5. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    You should have auto check off as you cant accept OTA updates once rooted, custom rom or not.

    In regards to what is using the space, nothing ever really gives a concise breakdown really. Im not sure there is anything better than settings>applications> manage applications
     
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  6. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    Would a custom ROM help with some of the issues I've already mentioned (removing system apps)? And are they fairly easy to install? Also, is there somewhere that I can go to for pros/cons of different ROMS? I'd be worried that I would/could pick a ROM that would brick my device.

    I'm so used to forums where you get beaten down for asking how to resolve problems that generally I go for the easiest options that I think I'll be able to run through without having to come back and be a nuisance.
     
  7. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    be as much a nuisance as you like here, its a friendly enough place.

    We would rather help someone get it right than help someone who didnt ask questions recover from their mistakes ;)

    Removing system apps isnt really causing much of an issue as space is irrelevant here.

    However, some system apps run constantly (such as genie widget / news and weather). If you dont use them, no need.

    They can be removed from custom roms before flashing the rom.

    Flashing itself is quite easy and Ive never heard of anyone bricking their phone doing so.

    Just make sure you get a recent one.

    Good place to start:

    Desire Index - Everything Desire is here! [UPDATED: 18/2] [InsertCoin,Cool Z & HD] - xda-developers

    in regards to the steps to flash roms, have a look at my rooting faq (located in my signature).

    All rom apps (as mentioned previously) are in /system/app. You can open the rom zip file using winrar on a pc (not extract just open), navigate to this folder and delete apps.

    However, you should only remove something if you know 100% what it is, what it does and if it is a dependency for other apps or functions.
     
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  8. InfernalByte

    InfernalByte Android Expert
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    Welcome! Preinstalled apps live on the rom, and before flashing another rom you should wipe all that has gone before on the phone, which means that unless you reinstall your unwanted apps, which would be silly, flashing another rom will get rid of your unwanted apps. Really, its not until you do flash a custom rom that you begin to seee the benefits of the leap of faith of rooting, (its early forgive me).

    Leedroid seems to be a choice for starters, but Ginger villain (the link is in SUroot's profile is just as good). My preferred choice Cyanogen and there's a little more flashing (loading) to be done to make it work.

    Suggestion: Make a fresh nandroid back up, donload and flash a custom rom, play a while, then if you dont like simply wipe and restore nandroid back up, which will restore your old rom and settings to the point at which they were saved.

    P.S. Do not use rom manager, use your PC and load it up.

    Edit: You haveney told us you've made an ext on your sd card, so try Cyanogen, as it doesn't come with a2sd by default.
     
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  9. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    Thanks for your input too. I took a look at Ginger Villain as had noticed it in SUroot's profile but will take a look at some of the others too.

    As I have the stock ROM of 2.2, which I believe uses Sense UI, how do the others differ generally? Are they the same basic method of navigation (7 home screens etc) or are they radically different?

    Also, not really sure I understand about the ext on SD card (do you mean a partition?) . If so then no, there's no partition. It was just a blank 4 GB Samsung SD card, formatted to FAT 32.

    Do you mean I should try Cyanogen as I will have to try to make a partition myself? I don't mind trying things out.
     
  10. InfernalByte

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    An ext partition on your goldcard is needed if you want to make a2sd work, Gingervillain runs a2sd automatically so you'll need to partition before you run GV. Cyanogen does not come with a2sd as standard, you have to add it yourself, so if you try Cyanogen you can do so without an ext partition on your card.

    Being different is the what's behind rooting really, and having the power to change things in your set up much more freely. All roms are quite intuitive and I'm guessing that someone like yourself will find your way around any rom pretty easily.

    Hadron or maybe its Lecter has a link on his sigi about how to partition a card, sit and watch the vid (I'm not sure why he wears gloves but I'm to scared to aks).

    EDIT: http://theunlockr.com/2010/09/20/how-to-root-the-htc-desire-unrevoked-method/
     
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  11. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    This is where my inexperience really throws me. I have created a gold card but it's not being used at present. Do I need a gold card to flash a new ROM and does the Goldcard permantenly replace a normal SD card? Or is the goldcard just used whenver I want to install a particular App that needs it?

    Think I need to read a lot more today.
     
  12. Hadron

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    It's Lecter, but the link is: Gparted tutorial
    (which I just copied from his sig ;))

    Edit: oops, hadn't meant to embed the video! Oh well...
     
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  13. Hadron

    Hadron  
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    I think that there was a slight slip in IB's post: for a2sd you need an ext partition on your SD card, but that card doesn't have to be a goldcard.

    You only actually need a goldcard if you want to run an RUU (ROM Update Utility) for a different phone version from your own, e.g. run a generic HTC RUU on what was originally a network-branded handset. But it's useful to have in case you really need to run an RUU and there is some problem with the "right" one for your phone. I think it might also have been needed if you had simply debranded and wanted to accept an update, but as you are rooted that doesn't apply, because you don't want to accept an update any more (it would be a world of pain if you did that).

    The question is, to use your goldcard as your main SD card or not? If you've only 1 card, the answer is "yes". If you have more than one, probably the best answer is to make both into goldcards (so if anything bad happens you have a spare).

    Final thing to watch: the one thing that "ungolds" a goldcard is repartitioning it (and I believe it was IB who discovered this for us). So if you partition the card for a2sd I think you'll have to "regold" it afterwards if you want it to still act as a goldcard.
     
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  14. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    Ok, I've actually copied the files from the Goldcard to my PC and formatted the card. So shouldn't I be able to just copy these back onto the root of a formatted card at any time and end up with a suitable goldcard? And do this ad infinitum if need be? Or do I need to make a goldcard and keep it untouched until my phone is no more, regardless of whether I actually use it or not?

    I have two SD cards, one 4GB and the other 2GB so for now I think I'll use the 4GB card in my phone (not as Goldcard).
     
  15. Hadron

    Hadron  
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    Once you've made a goldcard you can use it just fine - no need to keep it untouched, unless you are worried about the card being corrupted.

    I'm not sure where the information that makes a card a goldcard is stored, but I don't think it's in a file that you can copy to a PC and back. So you have to run the goldcard tool to make a card a goldcard. Having said that, I have read it said that goldcarding will even survive a format (which would prove it's not in a simple filesystem file), though not a partitioning.

    If you are going to do a2sd I'd definately use the 4GB card in the phone - a 2GB card with 0.5 GB taken up by the a2sd partition won't leave much space, especially since backups aren't small.
     
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  16. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    When you use the tool you make an img file that the tool then applies. You can use this tool to re-apply the image at any time on the same car
     
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  17. InfernalByte

    InfernalByte Android Expert
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    Oooops.



    You will have received an email from the PSAS website, that is your gold card image, keep that safe as it can be used ad infitum to regold your card. Each img is specific to the particular card it was generated from. (Sorry if this steps on anyone faq).

    A format will not break your goldcard as the goldcard img lives on the boot sector and not in a partition. Sometimes regolding will not work unless all but one of the partitions are removed. The one remaining partition should be FAT, fill the entire volume and should be created by slow format in Windows, (do not quick format). Spare info in case you need it.
     
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  18. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    Update:
    I've flashed Ginger Villain 1.2 after creating a partition on SD card and seems to have been succesful.

    Something I wasn't sure about: Widgets. Were they exclusive to my Stock ROM or can I add old/new Widgets somehow?

    Re: a2sd
    All apps show in the Internal memory when I access Settings > Manage Applications. I take it this is correct? The memory status of a2sd partition is something like 0.2% used. However, if for example I move the Flash Player app from internal to SD (I know, I know you say there's no need to do this) the whole 11MB (or whatever Flash Player is) frees up on internal. Surely if a2sd is doing it's job, there should be no change in this figure? To me, it seems as if I DO need to move them to SD manually but of course, I'm probably wrong.

    Anyone fancy setting me straight?

    Edit: Does it take a reboot to see changes in Internal/SD memory?
     
  19. Hadron

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    GV 1.2 eh? You're ahead of me now (my battery is too low to update it tonight) :D

    All apps appearing as in internal is normal with a2sd - the phone treats the ext partition as internal memory. Re. space/usage, did you do the "move dalvik to sd" thing (first post of the XDA thread)? If not, start a terminal emulator (install if necessary), type:

    su
    a2sd cachesd

    and it will reboot and move your dalvik cache to the a2sd storage.

    With gingerbread there are a few apps which are odd, and moving these to SD (Froyo style) does free up internal space. Flash player is one of these. Don't know why - I think the built-in apps to sd must work a little differently in 2.3, but haven't tracked down what is different about these apps (and can't now - was poking about with a terminal to see what is where but my battery just died). Most apps do behave as expected, i.e. moving them doesn't free internal space, but I have seen the same thing that you are seeing (and I'm using about 220 MB of a2sd storage, so it's definately working for me).

    Widgets: there are a lot of these available, but the Sense ones only work with Sense ROMs. The same is true of the HTC apps - those can't be installed on a non-Sense ROM.
     
  20. InfernalByte

    InfernalByte Android Expert
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    If an app comes as with the system, it lives in the system partition and cannot be moved. Only apps loaded by yourself or purchased for the market will be effected by a2sd.

    @ Zola. Here's a curved ball. If you want to save even more space go S-Off and repartition your system.

    Ooh I can be so mean sometimes. :D
     
  21. Hadron

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    Don't listen to him Zola - you've done enough for one day ;)

    Actually I've not done that myself yet - I wonder whether it'll be lack of space or boredom that pushes me into it first? That's really why I rooted when I did: not because of any specific need, but because I knew I was going to do it sooner or later, so one day I decided to get it over with...
     
  22. SUroot

    SUroot Android Expert
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    Oh god no. More advanced users. Not advanced, just more advanced than after first root
     
  23. Zola Eclipse

    Zola Eclipse Member
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    Fella's, your help has been much appreciated. This really is one of the most welcoming forums I've visited (along with AVF).

    My widget question was pretty stupid a few posts back, I bothered to look on the Marketplace and found plenty.

    I also installed SetCPU as suggested in one of your FAQ's[?] SUroot. Not reall sure what I'm doing with it though. Created a bunch of profiles. One for charging (full CPU), one for Battery<60% (CPU 806 max), one for battery < 40% (652 max) and one for Screen off (614 max). They're all set as "ondemand" scaling. Also, on the main screen of the SetCPU there's a checkbox for "Set on Boot". Will these settings actually do anything? Notifications seem to suggest that as my battery has dropped, the profiles are in play. However, since unplugging my phone this morning, the battery seems to be draining quicker than pre ROM flash.

    Any suggestions/info regarding SetCPU and best way to use it or why my battery might be draining so much (have basically the same apps as pre-Flash).

    PS. Really like this 2.3 malarky. Keyboard is much improved and love the launcher.
     
  24. Hadron

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    The only SetCPU profile I've ever used was a "screen off", which I'd set to as low a maximum speed as I could without slow wake or music skipping with screen off - usually 245 was fine.

    Right now I've got no profiles at all - I just use it to set the minimum clock speed for my phone to 128 MHz. And yes, I know yours doesn't have that - I'm using a custom kernel, the Gingerbread-HAVS-AXI-CFS kernel from this thread. The low clock speed is only active with the screen off. To flash a kernel, download to your phone, enter recovery and install the zip. Nothing else - no need to wipe or anything, though a nandroid backup is always a good idea before flashing anything.

    (Edit: Correction, I've remembered that the recent GV kernels can also clock down to 128).

    Otherwise, one battery saving tip with GingerVillain is to set the WiFi sleep policy to "never" (under advanced WiFi settings - get into WiFi settings then press the menu key). This sounds counter-intuitive, but that's the advice. Of course if you leave WiFi off then this isn't relevant, but otherwise it might be a factor.
     
  25. Hadron

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    I should add that if you look in Villain Setup you'll find other kernel options. Most people find HAVS kernels a little better for battery life than SVS (which is what the default will be). These acronyms refer to different ways in which the cpu voltage is adjusted with clock speed - HAVS generally can run a little lower, which saves a bit of power. Not all phones work with them, so if you find the phone freezing or rebooting then they are not for you and you should stick with SVS.

    You can change things in Villain Setup just by downloading and then pressing the install button. This is still flashing the update though, so having a recent backup before doing this is a good plan (though I've never had any problems with an update applied through Villain Setup).

    The kernel I'm using isn't available that way, so you'd have to apply it as described above (slightly more work). It depends a bit on your usage, but a kernel change may improve battery performance.
     
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