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Verizon reverting to old paterns I thought were long gone

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by gwlaw99, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. sooper_droid12

    sooper_droid12 Android Expert
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    Like I said, I don't approve of what VZW is doing (please re-read the post). But the problem with the reaction to this is a bunch of Bing-bashing. This is completely unwarranted. Some people have just been using Google for so long, it's like muscle-memory: Anything different is more difficult and therefore, crap. But this is not the case. Again, just my opinion, I don't mind the VZW bashing because what they're doing is blatantly wrong. But bashing Bing without giving it a long, and fair shake, is speaking out of ignorance. You really have to commit to it, not expecting that it'll return search results in the same way as Google and thinking, "If it ain't Google, it sucks." The Kool-Aid is just as strong on the Google side as it is on the Apple side.
     

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  2. shadowdude777

    shadowdude777 Android Expert
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    The scope of Google search is better. Google search is simpler. Google search returns more search results and they're more relevant. Trust me, I've tried Bing before. Google's been in this longer and search is their bread and butter, so I will admit that it's obvious that Google has more pages indexed, but Microsoft had a search engine before Bing. I made this search today when deciding on a headphone amp to build: mini3 vs pimeta - Google Search

    Compare it to this: mini3 vs pimeta - Bing

    16 results, a good chunk aren't in English, and some talk about headphones instead of amps. All in all, Google is still more relevant. Windows Live Search sucked before and Bing isn't doing a much better job. It might be the fastest-growing search engine, but Internet Explorer is also the most widely-used web browser. The Windows monopoly skews things a lot.
     
  3. smacky

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  4. snapcase

    snapcase Android Enthusiast
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    My prediction for the Droid Pro is this:
    Same lame camera as the Droid 1&2
    Faster processor
    Maybe more internal memory
    Same screen
    Moto Blur with new exciting social networking features!!!!!!!!!!!
    A locked boot loader
    Things like VZnavigator will show as "For Droid Pro Only" as soon as the phone comes out like it did with the X and D2.

    Hopefully they won't do crap like loading other crapware beyond Blur, but at this point I'd bet money on Motorola pushing Blur onto the device. Of course all this is said knowing nothing about the Droid Pro other than what little I read weeks ago.
     
  5. shadowdude777

    shadowdude777 Android Expert
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    A locked bootloader is pretty much a guarantee on any Motorola phone nowadays, them being the disgusting company that they are. The Droid was a "mistake" on their part, and one of the best mistakes I've ever seen, to be honest. I've heard they didn't lock its bootloader because the e-fuse technology would take too long to implement so they dumped it to make Verizon's Droid launch.
     
    Crude likes this.
  6. smacky

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    Too bad the Droid Pro is probably the Milestone 2.
     
  7. k00ey

    k00ey Member
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    If no one buys the Fascinate, Verizon will get the point.
     
  8. snapcase

    snapcase Android Enthusiast
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    No they won't. They'll think they didn't market it hard enough.
     
  9. shadowdude777

    shadowdude777 Android Expert
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    I don't see the point of the Fascinate. It has no keyboard unlike the Droid 1 and 2, and the Droid X has a bigger screen and better processor. Now if it had a keyboard like the Epic does, I would seriously reconsider.

    As long as we're talking about future phones, the future processor has been announced! Man, I can't wait to have a dual-core 1.5GHz 32nm ARM Cortex running Motoblur! After all, I need all that horsepower to use Bing search while VZ Navigator is running in the background.
     
  10. Thornfullessrose

    Thornfullessrose Android Expert
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    LOL:) at the ending!
     
  11. smacky

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    An OCd GS phone >>>> the Droid X.
     
  12. skiahh

    skiahh Well-Known Member
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    I think that most people buying a computer these days - and let's call it what it is, a tiny computer with a phone in it - expect the flexibility to set it up how they want.

    Google, Bing, Yahoo, Baidu even. What I want, not what big brother thinks is best for me.

    This move is straight from Apple's playbook!!

    Oh, and for the record, they could alter our Droids with an OTA update; my wife's Blackberry is already on Bing with no option to switch.

    Didn't Microsoft get sued for doing this with IE??
     
  13. mdeamicis

    mdeamicis Member
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    interior design and oh yea, i'm a seahawk/blackhaw
    in the desert s of socal
  14. UncleMike

    UncleMike Android Expert
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    They (Verizon) are not doing it because they think it's best for you; they're doing it because they think it's best for them (Microsoft paid them). What's best for you isn't even a consideration.

    It's the same reasoning behind locked boot loaders, e-fuses, etc. They're not implementing these things to protect customers from themselves, they're doing it to protect themselves from you. They're expected to support the devices they sell, so they see anything that lessens the degree to which customers can screw up their phones as a good thing.
     
  15. smacky

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    They signed a five-year deal with M4, so yes, they are doing what is best for them. It sucks that it was one year (not even, actually) of bliss and this time where we though "Verizon has finally changed!"

    Well, again, it isn't for all phones, just some, but who knows what's in VZW's mind long-term.

    Hopefully SU access can fix this.
     
  16. YankeeDudeL

    YankeeDudeL Android Expert
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    I'm def with you guys. I learned quick just how bad Big Red nickel and dimes us at every turn, but when the Droid came out, I was like, "Finally, they get it." Looks like they had us all fooled.

    Looks like I'll be holding onto my Droid for quite some time. And I'm very proud of that.
     
  17. riffdex

    riffdex Android Enthusiast
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    zz I'm so sick of hearing that expression... "what big brother thinks is best..." Seriously every time a debate about openness and choice gets started I have to hear that, and it's so overused. No offense but it is o_O
     
  18. sooper_droid12

    sooper_droid12 Android Expert
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    More results doesn't mean overall better results. The links you included don't mean much to me because I don't know what I'm supposed to be comparing. For the most part, the top results were from the same website, which means they seem to be returning the same basic results. The term "vs" brings up all of the non-English sites, and it only takes a couple of clicks to find the same non-English sites in your Google search. A better search string would be "mini3" and "pimeta".

    But like I said, more results doesn't mean better. Bing attempts to remove those results that are not in context. Bing will get better as more people use it, just as Google has. The difference between the two is fundamental: one is a glorified text search, the other is a contextual search. In the long run, as data builds, the contextual search will be better. And for the most part, for my needs, Bing works best. The Bing maps are more up to date, especially around me where there's a lot of development going on. Instead of empty lots and unnamed streets, Bing has more up to date location data.

    But to each his own; you use what you want to use. I'm just saying that the Bing-bashing isn't necessary in a discussion about why VZW sucks so hard.
     
  19. gwlaw99

    gwlaw99 Android Expert
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    According to user reports on the Fascinate forum, this only affects the widget and the search button. Voice search with the Voice search app installed has google results. 2.2 will also enable the search widget. So the end result is that the only thing affected is when you single press the search button. Not too awful.
     
  20. sooper_droid12

    sooper_droid12 Android Expert
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    What about defaulting to VZ Navigator? I heard it can be switched but is a pain.
     
  21. skiahh

    skiahh Well-Known Member
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    Well then you coin a new phrase to describe the principle.

    And while you're at it, how about "pulled the trigger" or any other overused phrase that's become part of our lexicon.
     
  22. Thornfullessrose

    Thornfullessrose Android Expert
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    OKAAY?:thinking:
    Off topic....
    Don't care.:cool:
     
  23. smacky

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    Again. Rooting your device should fix this. What's the big deal? They screw us by forcing us to have Bing and Bing only and we screw them by rooting our device, tethering for free, and doing other things that they don't want us to.

    GayT&T did the same with one of the few Android phones they have. Was it the Backflip? Couldn't install third-party apps, had a different default search engine, etc. They changed it real quick, if I remember correctly.

    The problem is we make change by strength in numbers, and therefore, money, but there are people with Android devices on VZW that still think it's cool that the phone has a touchscreen. They want nothing beyond that. And that's fine. But they'll say that they are content with the device, and will continue to put money into VZW's pockets as a result of their low expectations. So I dunno how we get to the root of the problem, but rooting the device does some damage control on the user's end.
     
  24. shadowdude777

    shadowdude777 Android Expert
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    I tried simply searching "mini3 pimeta" as well because I realize Bing is getting confused by the "vs" term. Still no match. I'm simply trying to read people's opinions on the performance of these two amps. Bing wasn't very helpful, to be honest, and Google's given me quite a fair bit of insight on the matter.

    Ohohoh, I see what you did there. :D

    But yeah, nothing solves a crappy UI like a nice custom ROM. Unfortunately, good devs tend to buy only high-end phones. I'd like to see someone unlock the true potential of a $50 phone by building a nice ROM from AOSP for it.

    As for the whole "strength in numbers" thing, if you go into the Market, go to Applications, all applications, and then top paid... well, I think it speaks for itself. SetCPU and ROM Manager are in the top 10. ;)
     
  25. Thornfullessrose

    Thornfullessrose Android Expert
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    I could see if you were able to get google search from the market but you cant even do that. shame... you are still able to get maps though.
     

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