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[Verizon] where can i get news about this locked bootloader business?

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by thanat0s24, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. thanat0s24

    thanat0s24 Newbie
    Thread Starter

    As the title says, where can I get news on this BS verizon is pulling? I called them today and spoke to two tech guys, neither of them even know what the hell a bootloader was, nor knew any news on verizon unlocking it..
     



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  2. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    Verizon isn't going to unlock it...and its more than likely (probable even) that it will never be unlocked by developers either...

    however its almost unnecessary at this point because of kexec
     
  3. jova33

    jova33 Android Expert

    What's this? I think the locked bootloader is one of those things that prevented me from getting a vzw s3
     
  4. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    we can flash custom kernels it just has to be done in a different way...the kernel has to be flashed to the recovery partition and loaded from there...its not super elegant...but it works just fine
     
  5. Rolo42

    Rolo42 Android Enthusiast

    You can't flash a custom kernel/boot.img on the VZW version. My guess is they wanted to prevent overclocking/overvolting.

    Perhaps between the kexec workaround and FCC complaints (ask VZW to unlock your bootloader so you can use your phone on another network; when they say "No", complain to the FCC for block C rules violation), they will unlock it.
     
  6. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    you certainly can flash custom kernels on the VZW version...

    the bootloader has NOTHING to do with Block C regulations...let me repeat that...the bootloader has NOTHING to do with Block C regulations...anyone trying to convince you it does is simply an idiot that has failed to comprehend what Block C even is...
     
  7. Rolo42

    Rolo42 Android Enthusiast

  8. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    yeah, but you can flash it to the recovery partition and it works just fine...

    this isn't personal...but this is frankly too easy...

    you're missing the point...as that has nothing to do with the bootloader lol...VZW owns the whole spectrum (Block C)...the regulations DO NOT say that VZW must allow you to unlock your phone so that you can use it on Block C...actually its the EXACT opposite...Block C regulations state...

    this means that VZW cannot block devices from THEIR OWN NETWORK...our phones are NOT blocked from using the spectrum that Verizon owns (Block C)...

    does anyone on these forums have a Droid X, Droid 2, D2G, D3, D4, DX2, Bionic, RAZR, RAZR Maxx, or even a GS3 that has not been able to use the VZW owned Block C?...nope, didn't think so...

    Now, you would be right in saying that there is a provision stating that they cannot keep you from using your device on another carrier's network...this is true...it states

    great! beautiful right?...WRONG...

    the problem then becomes a nightmare...

    Tech: remember that all new devices (including the SGS3) use a CDMA radio for voice and its LTE radio for data...the CDMA radio is NOT covered under the Block C regulations and is therefore excempt from these rules...only the LTE radio is covered here...

    VZW only has to prove that there is any sort of threat to their network by running unapproved software, and that would be EASY for them to prove...

    the ONLY Block C regulation you have to stand on is the last i posted...and that ONLY applies if youre planning to use the device on ANOTHER carriers network...they technically can't stop you...but they do NOT have to unlock a device that is already on THEIR network...PERIOD...

    you're only course of action is to petetion VZW to unlock your device so that you can use it on ATT, TMo, Sprint, whoever's network...if they refuse then you fight...if you win and they unlock your device...you won't be allowed back on their network...

    Block C says NOTHING about them being required to unlock ANY phones that are on their network...they just cant stop you from leaving and using your device elsewhere...

    this does us NO GOOD...the reason we have the VZW version is because we all know that VZW has arguably the best service in the nation...if we wanted to be on a different carrier we could have just bought a different version of the phone...but we all chose Big Red as our provider, and they provided us with a device that is 100% functional on their network...end of story...end of argument...

    Not to mention...will your device even work on the carrier network you want to go to?...

    as you can read in THIS ARTICLE not all LTE networks are created equal...different LTE providers are using different spectrums anyway...totally destroying the idea that you even COULD take your phone elsewhere...you would need to find a CDMA network (for your voice) and an LTE network in the upper 700mhz band (for data)...unfortunately VZW owns the entire upper 700mhz spectrum...so where are you gonna go??
     
    rimjay and bjanow like this.
  9. Rolo42

    Rolo42 Android Enthusiast

    Not everyone agrees and not everyone wants to operate that way (personally, I don't want my phone to take longer to boot than my PC).

    The bigger consequence, again, is that it further fragments the VZW SIII development from the rest of SIII development (compare what's available for us vs. the rest of the SIIIs to prove the point). It's like East Germany compared to West Germany--or even better, North Korea compared to South Korea in industrial and technical innovation and availability.

    Au contraire, mon fr
     
  10. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    agreed...but that doesn't mean we can't do it...and how often do you have to boot up honestly?

    agreed...but its not like the VZW version doesn't have great developers...



     
  11. Rolo42

    Rolo42 Android Enthusiast

    Third and last time I'll say this: you cannot flash a custom (unauthorised) kernel to boot.img. VZW shouldn't be in a position to "authorise" software. Workarounds aren't relevant and aren't the issue.

    I don't know but I can't say I've been impressed so far. Besides, that's like saying, "you aren't destitute and living on the street, so life must be peachy!"

    Block C says any app. Tethering is especially included (or were you not aware of FCC smacking VZW down for blocking third-party tethering apps using this very document?)


    You must have missed my edit as I mentioned our phones are GSM capable. As for other hardware, you'll have to provide a Block C reference that makes that exception as I cannot find one.

    Again, you haven't cited a specific, widely-accepted technical standard as required by Block C that SynergyROM would not comply with. Block C is explicit in order to discount slippery-slope arguments. By your rationale, Google/Amazon Play Stores are a potential threat to security as they have/can contain/ed malicious logic.

    I'm sorry; I've cited Block C's explicit language and applied it literally. I'm not seeing where you're pointing out any misinterpretation; I'm not one for ad hominem personal attacks (attack the argument, not the person sort of thing).

    That is an accurate parallel. If you want to install Ubuntu or OS X or Windows 8 preview on your Dell/Asus/Gateway/Falcon Northwest/Alienware, etc. PC, then you can. If they made it so you couldn't, there'd be quite the uproar (and loss of sales).

    A more accurate parallel would be if Comcast/Quest/Any ISP locked down your computer so you couldn't install a different OS or use any applications that required root/Administrator privileges. I doubt that would go over very well but somehow VZW should be treated differently even though they're really just another ISP (you don't need 4G to make regular voice calls).

    I can't imagine what you're thinking here as Dell, Microsoft, Apple do provide support. As for my PC personally, I've always built my own and I've been very supportive of my efforts. ;) My support comes from each component's manufacturer and none of them will void their warranty because I ran Ubuntu instead of Windows or for logging in with root/Administrator account. Does Dell say your warranty is void if you run software that requires an Administrator account? No, but VZW does (even though that's already illegal, cf. Magnusson-Moss Act).

    That's because VZW doesn't support custom software that they did not provide (reasonable); to ensure your custom ROM isn't the issue, you must certainly go back to clean stock to see if the trouble continues (that's just basic troubleshooting) and if it does continue, you've ruled out custom software (which isn't supported nor should it required to be). As far as warranty goes, the law requires that VZW honour it unless they can reasonably show how your modifications caused the damage you are asking them to repair (i.e. overclock/overvolt); they cannot deny warranty service solely based on the fact that you modified the device (didn't we already have this conversation?).


    Show me where that's the case in Block C; otherwise, it is not relevant as I've already illustrated using said Block C. (Your assumptions don't weigh into legal decisions.)

    I think I've demonstrated that I'm not an "idiot" with Block C and that I'm not "twisting" anything and said all I care to say in this discussion as anything further would only be to go around in circles. To the OP, I think you can find plenty of info right here!
     
  12. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    and for the eleventybillionth time IT DOESN'T MATTER...nobody is debating whether you can flash anything to the boot.img partition...i made a statement that its just about irrelevant because you CAN flash a "custom (unauthorized) kernel" to the recovery partition and it performs EXACTLY the same except for the additional boot sequence to load the kernel...

    and frankly yes Verizon probably SHOULD be in a position to authorize software...we are paying a license fee to access a network that THEY OWN...i don't think you would want anyone using any devices or executing any code which they felt they wanted to on your personal LAN correct?...thats probably why you have a secure network at home yeah?...

    whats there not to be impressed with?...we have CM9 and CM10 with official kernels...we have stripped and debloated stock ROMs...we have modified stock ROMs....CM10 isn't official for ANY devices yet (including the GNex) and we have a very stable version working on our "horribly locked down" device...


    im talking about this specific document that you linked to that you implored me to read so many times...where it states SPECIFICALLY...

     
  13. jova33

    jova33 Android Expert

    I'm drunk, and I think I understand. The vzw gs3 you can't install a custom kernel that's available on every other s3. W which in my opinion is garbage. (Still drunk)but yeah, if Verizon gets the next nexus device and puts some bs in it like this, I'll be on board that train
     
  14. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    Nexus Devices are by definition open...IF VZW carries the next Nexus phone it will be unlockable...
     
  15. jova33

    jova33 Android Expert

    Samsung devices have been unlockable. The VZW S3 is the only one that isn't. From my understanding
     
  16. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    correct...but the Nexus family is a whole different discussion...Google would rather VZW not carry the phone than have it locked...i promise you that
     
  17. Rolo42

    Rolo42 Android Enthusiast

    I was |_| this close to getting the GNex instead for that very reason. Ultimately, I weighed hardware over OS.
     
  18. diabolicalism

    diabolicalism Newbie

    I edited out the rest of your rhetoric for the ease of attacking the points I'll be going for when I filed my complaint with the FCC.

    Block "C" Regs are for phones using Verizon's 4g. All of Verizon's 4g phones are to abide by these regulations. Block C Regs do apply to these devices. If they didn't, Verizon would have stated that rather than send official responses talking about "network security" and "customer satisfaction." C'mon..

    You should know, there is no difference, according to the tech 2 rep I spoke with at Samsung between the VZW SGS3 and the USCellular SGS3 variants. The only difference is, the encrypted boot loader. I'll go you one further and tell you that the Developers Edition device supposedly to be sold by Samsung will be a USCellular device whose MEID# has been uploaded to Verizon's database for use on their network. This is provided that VZW allows the Developers Edition to be sold using it's network in the first place. To clear this up for those who are interested- it means, if you could convince VZW to allow the MEID# of a USCellular S3 onto their (VZW's) network, you would effectively have a Developers Edition S3 on VZW's network. We know, however, that VZW will not allow a MEID# into their database that's not already in it. Ok- they're under no obligation to. We won't argue that.

    Of course, this poses a problem when I want to take my VZW S3 to USCellular. USCellular, is willing to flash their software on the device, a device they already offer. USCellular, will not allow a device, running VZW Proprietary software on their network. Verizon wouldn't allow a device running it's proprietary software to be used on another network either, but for the sake of argument here.. USCellular, will only allow the device *IF* it's running USCellular software, receiving USCellular updates etc. None of which can happen, without being able to put their software on it. We already know that flashing any other carriers software, onto our phone will brick the VZW variant. This shouldn't be contested at this point. Therefore, one must consider that VZW has, in fact, configured it's devices to not be allowed on any network the user chooses. We're not talking about switching to ATT or Sprint- we're talking about USCellular. USCellular already piggy backs on VZW's network so it's easy for us to argue the point.. it's a no brainer. The radios are compatible. Everything is compatible except being able to actually make the swap!

    This, is the violation of the Block C Regs. USCellular is a compatible network where there are no radio changes necessary. USCellular won't allow a device on it's network running VZW software. USCellular, wants to flash their software onto the VZW S3, but VZW has rendered it impossible via the encrypted boot loader.

    This is going to get long, but it's worth it. I think you're smart, but you're not seeing it from the right angle... Here's the law:
     
    xliderider and Rolo42 like this.
  19. jova33

    jova33 Android Expert

    Right on! Take that big red!
     
  20. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    congratulations on completely wasting your time and arguing with me about something im not even trying to say :rolleyes:

    if you want to fight them to get YOUR phone unlocked to take to a different network...go ahead be my guest...according to Block C they can't stop you...and if they try then you have a case...

    my point is simply that they don't have to unlock everyone's phones...and that is the stance they are going to always take...

    you really wasted your time with your post...you should learn to read mine better

    you make the point about how youre

    but thats where the problem lies...NO PEOPLE ARE NOT...nobody wants to dump VZW's network...they just want their phone unlocked so they can play with it more...you know this, i know this, and VZW knows this...

    people keep citing regulations to support their argument but they are not actually trying to swap carriers! they just want to install a custom ROM...

    sure, maybe you want to move to US Cellular...so go ahead and ask for the encryption...but joe schmoe who wants to install CM10 on his phone (which we can do anyway) but stay on VZW's network doesn't have a leg to stand on...
     
  21. diabolicalism

    diabolicalism Newbie

    Wtf? You think the point of this is to just help myself? Absolutely not! If the phone gets unlocked, its getting turned over to a ****ing dev- someone who knows what to do with it to figure out a way to break the encryption on YOURS!
     
  22. diabolicalism

    diabolicalism Newbie

    This post was rude and unnecessary. It can be deleted.
     
  23. Metfanant

    Metfanant Android Expert

    so you just admitted to twisting the Block C regulations to fit your own personal needs...


    BAM!!

    /thread
    /discussion
    /argument
     
  24. diabolicalism

    diabolicalism Newbie

    end thread? hahaha.. right. Just because you say so? :rolleyes:

    You're stretching now. I think it's amusing. I enjoy watching you squirm almost as much as I'll enjoy watching VZW do it.

    Can't argue the logic so you attempt to argue the reasoning. My reasoning doesn't matter. It's my device. I'll do with it as I please. I can only assume this will be the same idiotology (I just invented that word for you) used by VZW and their attorneys. It won't hold water with them and it sure as **** doesn't hold water for you.

    You can stfu now.

    In the movie Ronin, Robert DeNiro's character Sam says, "You're either part of the solution, part of the problem or you're just part of the landscape." Let me ask you, Metfanant, which one are you?
     
  25. diabolicalism

    diabolicalism Newbie

    I'll tell you what I'll do- just for you. *IF* it happens, I'll activate it on uscc's network, then turn it over to a dev. Will that make you feel better, align all the stars in your universe and set everything right in your world?
     

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The Samsung Galaxy S3 release date was May 2012. Features and Specs include a 4.8" inch screen, 8MP camera, 1GB RAM, Exynos 4412 Quad processor, and 2100mAh battery.

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