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We Are Being Spyed On!

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by Locoman, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. bberryhill0

    bberryhill0 Android Expert

    I kinda like the thought that some carriers are trying to improve their networks. Verizon just sticks their head in the sand and declares that their network is perfect.

    * NPR has picked this story up. The sky is falling.
    http://n.pr/uGI1MD
     



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  2. KrippyKreme

    KrippyKreme Android Enthusiast

    Sure, they're overpriced and their in-store customer service leaves something to be desired, but all in all, I'm happier with then than I have been with any other carrier. AND, they were smart enough to not jump on the Carrier IQ bandwagon! Even if people aren't doing anything wrong, no one wants a third party "snooping" on their personal life (even if Carrier IQ has done nothing wrong). EULAs are bullshit! The important material that they know you won't read should be broken down for the average consumer to understand. Sneaky bastards!
     
  3. Eusibius2

    Eusibius2 Well-Known Member

    Ditto - Verizon, imo, does have better call quality than other carriers.

    It's one thing to have Verizon do their own snooping on a phone that I pay them to use (their service). Fine. I've opted out where I can (thanks for the choice), but to have a 3rd party do the snooping for you, not give you a choice, and not let you know that it's happening? FAIL.

    If this were done on a desktop system (apple or PC), it would be immediately flagged as a virus / malware and would be immediately squashed. Why does it matter that that it's on my phone instead? I probably do as include as much sensitive information on my phone as I do on my computer. If we want better service, let us figure it out, just like we have been doing for the past 30 years.
     
    blackepoxy likes this.
  4. cipher6

    cipher6 Android Enthusiast

    here we go with more media overreaction (and just plain not understanding things) in the name of ratings.

    I'm not a programer or developer or anything like that, but I can follow the arguments (seems a rare ability today)

    Yes, Carrier IQ is alarming, every other app asks you and informs you of what it does. So, that's an issue.

    But from what I can tell from that guys vid, he's not saying CIQ is logging anything, or sending anything to anyone. What he's showing is CIQ is "listening" to all those things. Regular apps would alert you it has the ability to listen to those things before you install it. Like my folder manager apps tells me it has access to services that cost me money, it can call phone number, so I can direct dial a contact from a folder, a feature I never use.

    So, this isn't a case of CIQ spying on anyone (at least not yet) Its a case of an application not giving express warning of the things it has access to before its installed on your phone. I'm not worried my folder manager app is secretly logging my phone calls. My weather app tells me it has access to my location and internet, it could secretly be compiling a database of my movements and sending it to the NSA... but chances are its not.

    So a worry, yes... but not to the level of some secret NSA spying program. I highly doubt Sprint (Verizon doesn't use CIQ) is compiling databases of everyone's text messages and phone calls (why would they want to?). Though it does seem the ability is in place if they wanted to, and customers haven't been told about that potential.


    But again, why would they want to? Its a lot of data to manage, for what benefit? Government might like the ability, so if the carriers did spy on all of our keystrokes, its only going to open the possiblity that a government agency at some point tries to get their hands on it, (like they try to get ISPs to turn over info), not to mention all the laws that might be violated in the first place, and it equals big legal mess for the carrier. So again, why would a carrier want to collect all that data?

    Also, don't the carriers already have access to every text and phone call you make, you are running it through their network...
     
  5. blackepoxy

    blackepoxy Android Expert

  6. cipher6

    cipher6 Android Enthusiast

    There has been no evidence, that I've seen (am I wrong) that the carriers were logging or collecting ANY information via CIQ.

    This is what I mean, we love to be outraged over things (no matter how trivial)... senators can grandstand and show you they are really looking out for you, and try to justify their existence. Lawyers can cash in. The media jack up their ratings when people tune it to hear about the "outrageous scandal." There is no perspective left in the world.
     
  7. KrippyKreme

    KrippyKreme Android Enthusiast

    Isn't that the real reason we're on the internet anyways? The only reason people like to get online is to...

    A.) bitch about everything we can because no one in real life will listen

    B.) download music and movies because the music/movie industries are so goddamn overpriced

    C.) buy shit from Amazon.com

    D.) check for new ROMs to install on our Android devices

    E.) read all of the ridiculously funny comments on Gizmodo

    F.) hope to find a BangBros user name and password

    G.) gossip about secretive software installed on cell phones

    Other than the aformentioned things, there's really no other reason to pay for internet. Well, besides to play Call of Duty online.
     
    TheGuitarBoss likes this.
  8. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User

    True dat
     
  9. cipher6

    cipher6 Android Enthusiast

    At least someone is trying to keep a level head.

    reading the comments of that story though almost makes me cry, we've become a bunch of ******s...


    wiretapping? Why exactly would the carriers want a database of your text messages (data they already have flowing thorough their network and could save at any time?)



    F'ing hell...


    A fair question... but I don't think it rises to the level of a Senate investigation.

    Oh dear, please shut up and go occupy something.

    Do all these people have some fantasy their a secret agent, with all kinds of juicy national secrets that carriers and governments are trying to get their hands on? News flash, your life isn't that special, Verizon doesn't care you <3 your girlfriend.


    I'm sure you don't understand or are aware of 50% of the software running on your phone or any device.
     
  10. victek

    victek Android Enthusiast

    This is like saying it's OK to have a backdoor installed on your phone as long as it isn't being used. Is that really ok with you? People who live in the "1st world" may not feel government surveillance is a problem, but have a look at the 3rd world and see what's possible. It may be coming to a theater near you.
     
  11. TheAtheistReverend

    TheAtheistReverend Anybody want a peanut?
    VIP Member

    +1

    I have nothing to hide.
    BUT...
    I am not ok with my right to privacy being violated, whether the government, authorities or anyone else says I have the right or not. I will fight to keep what I see as my inalienable rights.
    I see it like not allowing us to have locks on our doors. Or shades on our windows.
     
  12. victek

    victek Android Enthusiast

    Thanks for debunking the "nothing to hide" POV. I believe that many people who think government surveillance isn't a problem because they're not engaging in criminal activity would be very, very upset to find themselves being surveilled. Having nothing to hide is not the same as placing no value on personal privacy.
     
  13. cipher6

    cipher6 Android Enthusiast

    This is really a joke of an argument. If government spying is what your trying to avoid by making such a big deal out of carrier IQ because the TV told you to... then why are you even using a cell phone at all? All your communications on that device are as secure as a sandwich warped in plastic. But now, because the TV and internets are talking about one specific avenue of possible penetration, (like talking about a particular hole in a colander) your all worked up.


    All your data is already flowing through your carrier, they need no back door. The fact you would trust your carrier with every word said to every number called, every text message and every bit of data you move, but not some obscure analytic tool is near comical.

    But why do you see it that way? Because TV or some blog told you to? Because you just like to be outraged? The carriers already have way more access to your info. No one said you can't lock, hide or make more secure your data and communications. Step one would be not using Android, maybe the most insecure mobile platform around. There are plenty of steps you can take to make yourself more secure if you feel the need, no one has taken anything from you that I can see.

    If yall are as worried about privacy as you say, CIQ is the least of your worries.


    Seriously WTF, you guys must be like 16 watching lots of TV. I mean, I agree with what you've said here, I just don't think a diagnostic tool on a mass produced out of the box piece of hardware comes really close to that level.

    Yeah, people should have been notified, and there is probably something buried in your contract agreement about it. I just have trouble buying this was designed and implemented as a backdoor spying solution... even harder to swallow its part of some NSA program and CIQ is a front.

    Its the carriers wanting to collect as much information as possible about how their networks preform in the wild, so they could make them better than the competitor and make more money... in that desire for more and more info I think they got greedy and said, we'll just stick CIQ in the core, and not say anything about, that way no one can opt out and we'll have access to all that network data.

    Is that an issue, yeah, I don't like it, but thats one reason I root and run custom ROMs. But, don't forget, by doing that your also trusting whoever wrote the ROM not to have stuck something nasty inside it.
     
  14. victek

    victek Android Enthusiast

    You are missing my point. I cannot say specifically what CIQ is, why it was put on phones, or how it could potentially be abused. I'm concerned about the larger issue of privacy Vs electronic surveillance. Last month the Supreme Court heard a case involving GPS tracking by law enforcement and it's impact on 4th amendment protections. This is rather important since it may redefine "probable cause" and the rules governing electronic surveillance. It is not possible in modern society to hide. Giving up cell phones, computers, credit cards, etc, is not a solution. Tracking cannot be avoided so there must be rules defining what is legal and what is not. Clandestine electronic tracking without "probable cause" should be affirmed as illegal and whenever it is discovered it should be made public. As you've said the carriers and the government already have the power. It is only the rule of law that restrains them. Regarding TV, I've seen reports about how foreign governments try to control civilian populations by turning off cell phone networks and internet access, or they go the other route and engage in targeted tracking. I don't think feeling concerned about this is childish.
     
  15. TheAtheistReverend

    TheAtheistReverend Anybody want a peanut?
    VIP Member

    See what exactly what way? I don't think I get your question. Could you please be more specific?
    I don't watch T.V. or read much for blogs, let alone let them or you for that matter tell me what to think.
    Are you trying to make a point? Can I be upset? Is that ok with you?
    I know that silly. You think I wasn't aware of that when I gave it to them? They do not have access to everything CIQ would if it were on my phone.
    I do, I think. Not sure I know what you're trying to say here.
    You need to read up on things before you make bold and blanketing statements like this.

    One of the steps I can and do employ to make myself more secure is to take action and talk to my peers about it. Fancy that, exactly what I'm doing here!
    So only the largest of fears are worth addressing?
    You make a lot of assumptions.
    It sound to me like you think we should all just roll over on our backs and take it up the pooper with a smile on our faces.
    Be my guest, but don't expect me to do the same.
    If you aren't concerned, then say so. If you think our concerns are unfounded, I'll even accept that. But don't be arrogant and offensive please.
     
  16. hilmar2k

    hilmar2k Android Expert

    Not to nitpick here, but it seems to me that rolling over on your back would be the most effective way to prevent taking up the pooper. ;)
     
  17. TheAtheistReverend

    TheAtheistReverend Anybody want a peanut?
    VIP Member


    Thanks for the "tip" :D
     
  18. victek

    victek Android Enthusiast

    Thanks, I was started to worry that things were getting too serious :D
     
  19. KrippyKreme

    KrippyKreme Android Enthusiast

    A wise man once said that you don't have to be gay to enjoy butt sex! I don't really know how wise he really was or even if anyone ever said that. It just looked like the opportune time to share. #nohomo

    Let's just all be glad we aren't on the iPhone forums!

    @TheAtheistReverend Can I get an amen? *cough*
     
  20. victek

    victek Android Enthusiast

  21. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User

    My understanding is that VZW has denied having Carrier IQ on any of it's phones and no one has come up with anything to contradict them as of now. So we are not being spied on. Other people are, but not us.
     
  22. hilmar2k

    hilmar2k Android Expert

    Carrier IQ: 'We're as surprised as you' by phone logging - Dec. 2, 2011
     
  23. victek

    victek Android Enthusiast

    According to the free Carrier IQ detection program from the folks that make Lookout Mobile Security my Inc2 doesn't have it installed. So yes, CIQ doesn't appear to be an issue on Verizon phones, but more generally we don't know to what extent tracking is occurring on the Verizon network. Note the messages you get when you enable the three GPS based services (standard GPS, Verizon and Google services). Essentially they're EULAs, but you don't really know what you're agreeing to (well, I don't). I don't think this is something to be paranoid about, but it's good to be aware of.
     
  24. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Extreme Android User

    I don't disagree with any of that.
     

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The HTC Droid Incredible 2 release date was April 2011. Features and Specs include a 4.0" inch screen, 8MP camera, 768GB RAM, Snapdragon S2 processor, and 1450mAh battery.

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