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Discussion in 'Politics and Current Affairs' started by Storm613, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Storm613

    Storm613 Well-Known Member
    Thread Starter

    Here's a touchy subject. Let's discuss! :D

    Be civil. I'm sure there are some people who are benefiting from welfare on these forums. Please choose your words carefully, and don't attack others.

    So what do you think about American Welfare?

    Personally, I think it needs some change. Now, I'm not accusing anyone here, but I don't like the idea of some bum sitting around and using my hard earned money to fuel their drug habit. I know someone out there is doing it. But I also understand that there are people who are going through hard times, and need some help.

    So here's my solution: I know it's not perfect, I'm not some expert on how politics work, (I'm only 17...And yes, I do work and pay taxes) but I'd like to see something a bit like this happen.

    • Who is getting my money?
    People should be thoroughly screened before they are able to benefit from welfare. Do they have a drug habit? Have they ever had a drug habit? How did they find themselves in this situation? Will they try to get themselves back on track? How long do they expect to be on the program?

    • How are they using my money?
    To make sure the wrong people aren't using my money for the wrong things, maybe a sort of auto-pay thing could work. Bills (Water, gas, electricity, etc.) Could be sent directly to the welfare department and be paid for by the department. Food stamps would be allotted for food, and then a portion of money could be allotted for leisure. If a person was considered "High-risk" for abuse, random drug tests could occur.

    • Do they need more help?
    The welfare department should have meetings with people who are benefiting from it. How far have they come? Are they making an attempt to get back on their feet? How else can the government help them? They could be offered job applications, and learn other ways to help manage their money. The welfare department should make every attempt possible to help people get off of the program.

    • Dealing with abuse
    If people are abusing the program (not attempting to find a job, using the money for drugs, etc...) they should be dealt with. Drug addicts should be sent to rehab centers, and more attempts should be made to help those who won't look for a job. If they still will not try to get themselves off the program, their welfare should be terminated. Maybe they could set a time limit for benefits. After so long, the benefits would just stop and you would be on your own.

    So there it is. I know, it's not perfect, and I don't expect you to agree with it. And no, I don't think that everyone on welfare is abusing it, I just think more attempts should be made to deal with those who are. I think the government should try harder to get people off of the program. I want to know what you guys think about welfare. And remember, be civil, and respect the opinions of others.

  2. Crude

    Crude Android Expert


    wellfare+$500 phone= not wellfare
  3. mpw

    mpw Android Expert

    Homeless may not mean jobless, and his employer might provide his phone.
  4. mpw

    mpw Android Expert

    I think many of the points you make, and your ideas of how a welfare system should work are good ones.

    My comments are made generally about welfare, not specifically the US system, but I think it is important that welfare be a safety-net, and not a career. There are those on long term welfare who do not deserve it, they actively attempt to stay on welfare rather than put any effort into earning their living independently; welfare has to be appropriate to need, real need.
  5. Storm613

    Storm613 Well-Known Member
    Thread Starter

    Which is exactly why welfare needs to be changed.

    There shouldn't be ANYONE who is on welfare permanently unless they have some sort of a disability. Welfare shouldn't be a permanent solution to someone's financial problems, it should be a way to help people get back on track.
  6. 3devious

    3devious Android Expert

    All of those things you mention are in place, Storm613. The counseling/social workers and the policies for abuse. The brilliant minds much like the ones that cobbled our health bill together reformed that system and it has more holes than the tax system.

    Get used to your work going to benefit those who don't. There are many people out there who insist that they know how to better help you and the society with your money more than you ever could. Don't even try to complain about it otherwise you'll just get offered tea.

    Redistributing wealth, does not work.
  7. foreWard

    foreWard Well-Known Member

    Drug testing #1.....then some sort of random auditing to qualify again to make sure you arent blowing your welfare money on big screens and iphones, etc....

    no, I dont know how we will pay for this above-mentioned auditing...but in a perfect world.....
  8. Storm613

    Storm613 Well-Known Member
    Thread Starter

    They might have extra money if they would catch the people who are abusing it..
  9. Vihzel

    Vihzel Destroying Balls Everyday

    What do we do about smokers? People using government dollars to buy cigarettes...
  10. Bundy

    Bundy Android Enthusiast

    Welfare should be an employment opportunity for those who can't find work in the private sector. You want taxpayer money, then do something for the taxpayer: rehab houses in the neighborhood, clean up parks, work in local clinics or VA Hospitals, fix roads, clean litter off the roads, remove grafitti, etc., etc., etc.

    Another possiblitly would be to work towards learning a trade by interning, which could ultimately lead you to a job.
  11. Storm613

    Storm613 Well-Known Member
    Thread Starter

    I like this...
  12. 3devious

    3devious Android Expert

    But we have prisoners to do all of that stuff...

    The welfare program already provides access to programs like Job Corps but they are not limited by age.

    All of your suggestions are very reasonable and more than fair. Why do you think they aren't working as intended?
  13. hood420

    hood420 Android Enthusiast

    My solution for welfare is give people the bare minimum needed to survive, and help them to not need it anymore. Welfare should be viewed as an emergency service that is only to be utilized when absolutely necessary.

    First, I don't believe in any cash assistance whatsoever. If you stop cash assistance, you stop quite a bit of the abuse.

    If someone is in need of housing assistance, they can have the option of living in government owned housing (aka the projects). The housing can have an onsite cafeteria, laundry, etc... It would have everything onsite required to get by. No paying housing subsidies for people to live where they choose, then giving them cash assistance on top of food assistance.

    The welfare agencies should offer job placement services, and some reasonable level of education subsidy, in fact readying people for the workforce and finding them employment should be the primary mission of any social services agency as it alleviates the future need for services while at the same time increasing the tax base.

    Last, but not least, people who are receiving assistance (welfare or unemployment), but are not working, should be made to spend a certain amount of time volunteering or working for the public good. They could be assigned to work for a non-profit or do work for the City/State/Feds doing things like cleaning/maintaining parks, roads or anything that needs to be done, but can't be afforded.
  14. RAND0M1ZER

    RAND0M1ZER Member

    I think most of this stuff is already in place, however the auto-payments sounds like a good idea.
  15. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    I like the idea of starting with the elimination of all corporate welfare.
  16. Aiyan

    Aiyan Android Enthusiast

    Hmm, it's bit biased having me from Norway talking about welfare, when I know we're more "lucky" then most people when it comes to benefits from our gov't welfare politics.

    Instead I will just try to say my thoughts a loud on the welfare itself. I believe welfare is:

    A) A way to get the citizens to get back on their feet.
    B) Protect the citizens from falling totally incase of losing their work.

    ex. Norway: You have been in work for a year or more, you end up losing your work. The state will then provide fundings after % of what you earn every year before taxes. You will still pay taxes on what you get from the state, but it also gives you a mean live almost normally when trying to get back into a new work.

    C) Too compensate for loss of work.

    Example is how the pregnancy in some countries ain't rewarded, while Norway you can safely have a child while working because of welfare. Article to give a example:
    BBC NEWS | Europe | Norway's welfare model 'helps birth rate'

    D) Too make sure everyone have the rights and means to use the different systems in Norway.

    ex: Hospitals is free, medicines is free, school tution is "free" (need buy the books and transport), travels that goes behind certain km/time will be covered when studying, disabilities will get supported and funded.

    Though I also want to say its not perfect this system we have in Norway and as some of you might see, since I'm living in Norway I might have another opinion on what welfare is about. Most of the taxes goes to making sure most people can live almost a normal life, though there is cases where it's not so in Norway as well.

    But all in all, what we are against are maybe things you will never take for granted.

    PS: Found this as well, trying to find some of the negatives that are english translated:

    Basically the article is taken from VG (Norwegian Newspaper), it covers certain type of families abusing the holes in the system.
  17. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    Norway is on the right track. In the United States, we mostly help corporations who turn around and screw us at every opportunity.
  18. JAL

    JAL Newbie

    I'm kind of jumping in here after a lot of posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me.

    How much outrage is there here about corporate welfare? What is the big difference between some dude with a blackberry getting a bowl of soup versus some dude with a $42 million golden parachute release package getting millions of dollars a year in subsidies? No one ever seems to mind that their local Walmart gets all their taxes subsidized, and that their parking lot and highway entrance were paid for by the city (read: paid for by YOU) but everyone has time to get butt hurt when some dude gets soup.

  19. byteware

    byteware Android Expert

    Here is my belief on how Welfare should work.

    To receive welfare, you must work for the state that pays you. A certain number of people will be screened and employed/trained as daycare attendants. They will be trained in all of the procedures and paperwork required to run a facility from your home.

    These welfare recipients/employees will watch the children of other recipients/employees who are being trained in other fields throughout the state. These will include construction, roadwork, etc... these people will be paid far less than they would make on the open market. They will be drug tested weekly, and randomly (each person takes a test once a week, but they don't know what time/which day).

    These people are doing the work anyway, and have ample motivation to learn the job and get a real job as they get better pay/benefits.

    The companies that take on and train these welfare recipients will receive a stipend from the government while they train them.

    IMHO, this is the best plan for welfare that I have seen presented.
  20. OfTheDamned

    OfTheDamned The Friendly Undead

    This is more or less what I said about welfare on another thread.

    We have a surplus of people in this country that will work very hard to be as lazy as they can. They want unemployment and welfare for as long as they can get it.

    Obviously there are people that run into hard times and need help that they can't find from family or their community. In these cases welfare is totally justified, but not without limits.

    1 - I think that first and foremost welfare should have a time limit. Give people adequate time to get back on their feet and back to being productive. Just give it a limit and stick to it.

    2 - I don't think welfare should be entirely free. Everyone here has to work for their money. If someone is on welfare without a job working at least 40 hrs a week then they should be put to work someplace. Let them do something for the house and money they are getting. I'm not saying it has to be a good job and it should probably be a horrible one that nobody really wants. It will motivate to go get a real job.

    3 - Drug tests should be mandatory. How can you give people money without having any idea what they plan to do with it. This will help in so many areas and will either cut down on drug use or welfare recipients. Either one is good, IMHO. Rehab shouldn't even be an option. Failed drug test should equal no welfare, no kids and possibly even jail time.

    4 - Food should be coming from a truck or specialized store and not in the form of food stamps. I'm sorry, but the people that are struggling to make it without welfare aren't buying coke and eggos and neither should the people who are on it. Generic boxed food should be perfectly fine for anyone that wants it. If you don't want it, fine go hungry. This also makes sure that the kids are eating real food and not crap.

    5 - Luxuries should be out of the question. If you are stuck on welfare you don't need cable and dish. You certainly don't need a big screen tv and I think these things should be prohibited for the people that are on it without employment. Meaning, if you are doing one of the crappy welfare jobs I spoke of in #2 then you don't get any of the other luxuries. If they want entertainment then they should probably be cracking a book.

    6 - Education should be a requirement for those that are staying on welfare for a long time. Some sort of technical school training should be apart of it. Failing grades should equal being kicked out.

    7 - The kids of parents on welfare should be taken care of. They are the reason that welfare really exists in the first place. If the parents are unwilling to follow the rules or can't keep clean then the kids should be taken away from them. There are orphanages, foster homes and adoptive homes all over this country. I'm not saying that any of these are ideal choices, but for the kids safety and health I am sure that many will agree they are better alternatives than staying with drug addict or otherwise worthless parents.

    As far as money goes let's be serious, the fed comes up with money for anything they really want money for. If they really want to educate and empower some of the people of this country they can find away. Although, I think many would just prefer them to stay lazy and attached to the government teat.
  21. Frisco

    Frisco =Luceat Lux Vestra=

    I've encountered families that have been on welfare since it first started, going back to grandparents; it's all they know.

    Sorting them out is not rocket science; I've always been startled by the Federal government's unwillingness to do that effectively.

    Those in true need, often for a short term for the simple reason that they cannot stand to not work, seem much quieter than those others when the checks get cut off or threatened from time to time.
  22. ElasticNinja

    ElasticNinja Android Expert

    This drives me mental :(

    Especially when they have kids

    In my state we raised the minimum wage, and I think that has greater poverty reducing affect

    But it sux to be on welfare with a mortgage to pay
  23. byteware

    byteware Android Expert

    Actually, it has just the opposite effect.

    It raises the price of goods and services for EVERYBODY, which brings everybody down a little closer to poverty.
  24. hakr100

    hakr100 Android Expert

    Your "solution" seems to be more for the rich, less for the poor...aka Bush/Cheney economics.

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