What kind of warranty did you get?

[sirchadwick1]

Incorrect? No we are grandfathered in.

Ah, lucky... makes sense now. Thx for clearing that up.

 

[makewayhomer]

ok so you understand this:

Yes, we all understand that insurance companies make money based on the fact that their revenues from premiums far exceed the costs of their claims.

so how in the world does that jive with this:

it is an absurd thing to say that insurance is "a bad deal" simply because most people may not be likely to make a claim.

????

if for an average user phone insurance costs more than not getting insurance, how is getting insurance not a bad deal?

you understand that it costs you more money than this way, so what is it you're not understanding?

 

[irishjoeyo]

ok so you understand this:



so how in the world does that jive with this:



????

if for an average user phone insurance costs more than not getting insurance, how is getting insurance not a bad deal?

you understand that it costs you more money than this way, so what is it you're not understanding?

It sounds like you're suggesting that those two quotes are mutually exclusive. That is a fundamental mistake that you are making, because they are not. Clearly, you did not understand my earlier statement that, even though a person might not make a claim, they are still getting something in return for their money. Paying for what they get is not a "bad deal", like you think it is. Having the confidence that something can be relatively easily remedied, should something happen, is not what you call a "bad deal", and it is absurd to think that it is. I feel like a broken record, here. You need to fully understand what I have said and the context within which I said it before you make nonsensical replies such as this one.

 

[sirchadwick1]

If Otterbox would hurry up and come out w/ their Defender line for the Incredible, I'd most likely cancel my full insurance coverage. I'm more worried about dropping my phone than bricking it.

PS, Allstate does not offer specific insurance coverage for devices like this at a lower $200 deductible. If my phone is ever damaged or stolen, I would have to pay my $1,000 deductible... which isn't happening obviously.

 

[makewayhomer]

It sounds like you're suggesting that those two quotes are mutually exclusive. That is a fundamental mistake that you are making, because they are not. Clearly, you did not understand my earlier statement that, even though a person might not make a claim, they are still getting something in return for their money. Paying for what they get is not a "bad deal", like you think it is. Having the confidence that something can be relatively easily remedied, should something happen, is not what you call a "bad deal", and it is absurd to think that it is. I feel like a broken record, here. You need to fully understand what I have said and the context within which I said it before you make nonsensical replies such as this one.

well we reached the point I guess.

the statements ARE mutually exclusive, unless you are talking about life or death insurance.

if on average it costs you more to get insurance, it's a bad deal, period. you can justify it mentally however you want, just know that you're probably spending more money than me.

 

[euph_22]

Yes, we all understand that insurance companies make money based on the fact that their revenues from premiums far exceed the costs of their claims. That is news to no one. Going back to the original point of disagreement, however, it is an absurd thing to say that insurance is "a bad deal" simply because most people may not be likely to make a claim.

Insurance in this case is "a bad deal" because it's not possible to have a catastrophic claim on the insurance. Car insurance makes sense because it's possible to have liability FAR in excess of the value of the car. I hit the sweet looking Mercedes SLK driving next too my Ford Focus, insurance is very important. That is not the case for cell phone insurance. Since the maximum (and basically sole) claim is $350 (face value - deductible), and the net premium over the 2 year life of the contract is roughly $200, you're only going to get a maximum benefit of $150. If you file a claim. 60% of people won't need to do that, and thus LOSE $200.

And if you break your phone, you can almost certainly get Verizon to give you the upgrade price. Especially if you threaten to switch carriers ("Sprint offered to pay my ETF but I've been happy with Verizon so far and want to stay. Would you be able to give me the upgrade price so I can make that happen?"). If you get that (and you will, maybe after a call or two, but you'll get it), you're getting twice the benefit the insurance would provide.

 

[irishjoeyo]

well we reached the point I guess.

the statements ARE mutually exclusive, unless you are talking about life or death insurance.

if on average it costs you more to get insurance, it's a bad deal, period. you can justify it mentally however you want, just know that you're probably spending more money than me.

They are not mutually exclusive. That is a fact, not an opinion. You seem to be consistently ignoring my repeated statement that, even though a person might not make a claim, they are still getting something in return for their money, something to which they agreed. Therefore, it is not "a bad deal". If you can show that they are getting absolutely nothing in return, then you'd have something. Seeing as that will be impossible for you to do, you are wrong.

 

[makewayhomer]

They are not mutually exclusive. That is a fact, not an opinion. You seem to be consistently ignoring my repeated statement that, even though a person might not make a claim, they are still getting something in return for their money, something to which they agreed. Therefore, it is not "a bad deal". If you can show that they are getting absolutely nothing in return, then you'd have something. Seeing as that will be impossible for you to do, you are wrong.

yes, you get something

but that something is worth less than what you paid for it. by definition that is a bad deal. if you don't like my math see euph_22's post for an example of why the something you get is worth less than what you are paying for

 

[irishjoeyo]

Insurance in this case is "a bad deal" because it's not possible to have a catastrophic claim on the insurance. Car insurance makes sense because it's possible to liability FAR in excess of the value of the car. That is not the case for cell phone insurance. Since the maximum (and basically sole) claim is $350 (face value - deductible), and the net premium over the 2 year life of the contract is roughly $200, you're only going to get a maximum benefit of $150. If you final a claim. 60% of people won't need to do that, and thus LOSE $200.

And if you break your phone, you can almost certainly get Verizon to give you the upgrade price. Especially if you threaten to switch carriers ("Sprint offer to pay my ETF. I've been happy with Verizon so far, would you be able to give me the upgrade price so I can stay?"). If you get that, you're getting twice the benefit the insurance would provide.

The possibility of making a "catastrophic claim" on an insurance policy does not and does not solely determine whether or not a policy is "a bad deal". And where are you getting this "maximum claim" value of $350? Have you not read my multiple posts, either? State Farm offers a personal property policy that costs $30/year with no deductible and it covers $500. Furthermore, your "bad deal" claim can only be true if a) the person never files a claim over the 2-year contract and b) does not consider peace of mind to be something significant that they receive in return for their money. As I stated earlier, my screen shattered within a month. With Asurion, that's one insurance payment of $7.99 + deductible. With State Farm, that's $2.50 period. No deductible. And a brand new phone. That, my friend, is a great deal.

 

[irishjoeyo]

yes, you get something

but that something is worth less than what you paid for it. by definition that is a bad deal. if you don't like my math see euph_22's post for an example of why the something you get is not worth less than what you are paying for

That's only because the value that you personally place on that peace of mind is significantly less than the cost of the premium. For most, the value is much higher. That, by definition, is not a bad deal.

 

[cartisdm]

I didn't take the time to read through the whole thread but I thought I might just throw in my 2 cents. I did the insurance that was offered through Wirefly.com when I ordered my DINC. It was $69 upfront for 1 year but covers replacements without a deductable. After a year I can renew it for the same price. I've never used them before so I can't say whether or not I recommend them but the price beats Verizon/Asurion hands down.

That being said, in the future I think I'll start putting $70 in a jar and adding $5 to it every month. If I ever have to cash in, then so be it. If not, I'll put it toward my next upgrade!

 

[makewayhomer]

The possibility of making a "catastrophic claim" on an insurance policy does not and does not solely determine whether or not a policy is "a bad deal". And where are you getting this "maximum claim" value of $350? Have you not read my multiple posts, either? State Farm offers a personal property policy that costs $30/year with no deductible and it covers $500. Furthermore, your "bad deal" claim can only be true if a) the person never files a claim over the 2-year contract and b) does not consider peace of mind to be something significant that they receive in return for their money. As I stated earlier, my screen shattered within a month. With Asurion, that's one insurance payment of $7.99 + deductible. With State Farm, that's $2.50 period. No deductible. And a brand new phone. That, my friend, is a great deal.

your problem is you are thinking about this on a very personal, results oriented basis

ie if someone breaks their phone in their first month then insurance is a great deal, if they never end up breaking their phone then insurance was an awful deal.

but this is an extremely flawed way of thinking.

the only good way to analyze the situation is to take an average person and figure out the probability of them breaking/losing their phone over 24 months, and the value of that over and above the mfctr warranty, the Verizon warranty, etc.

take the average user, not the results of any 1 particular user. from the day you buy the phone, you should be able to figure out what your policy is worth given the above probability. and guess what? it's less than what you are paying for it.

you understand that for the average user, he will spend more with insurance. you understand this. right?


but you are somehow arguing that these extra $'s are worth "peace of mind". I think your mind would be more at peace knowing that you have spend less than the alternative, but w/e

 

[irishjoeyo]

That being said, in the future I think I'll start putting $70 in a jar and adding $5 to it every month. If I ever have to cash in, then so be it. If not, I'll put it toward my next upgrade!

That is probably the best deal of all (if you have the self discipline not to touch that fund, of course)!

 

[irishjoeyo]

if someone breaks their phone in their first month then insurance is a great deal, if they never end up breaking their phone then insurance was an awful deal.

Again, you are STILL getting something in return, even if you NEVER file a claim. You have continually ignored this fact and that is most obvious in this quote.

Bottom line: Whether or not anything is a "bad" deal is subjective and entirely dependent on the view of the consumer making the purchase. That said, if you think it is a bad deal for you, then it is a bad deal for you. You are in the minority, however. The large majority do not feel that it is a bad deal, hence, they purchase insurance. That is why advising someone not to purchase insurance simply because you think it's a bad deal is bad advice.

 

[jamor]

Not sure where you guys are getting your numbers but they seem a bit high.

I have full Asurion coverage is only $6 for most users (1.99 extra is for Verizon extended manufacture defect warranty which I opted out on).

So $6 x 24 months = $144

If you have one claim that is $144 + $89 = $233

I have already had 1 claim. I received a brand new Incredible from Asurion.

If I didn't have insurance, even if I keep the Asurion for full 2 years, I have saved $600 (new Inc + tax) - $233 = $367 savings

Ok, now say I have 2 claims, 1 in the 1st year and 1 in the 2nd year.

To be fair to the other side, let's be conservative and say the price for a new/refurbished phone (I would never buy used) is now $300.

$600 (1st year new phone) - $233 (1st claim & 24 months of Asurion) - $89 (2nd claim) + $300 (2nd year new phone) = $578 savings.

Summary

1st claim in first year - $367 savings.

2nd claim in second year - $578 savings.

That, to me, is worth it having Asurion.

 

[makewayhomer]

Jamor, if your run the math assuming 1 claim per year, of course insurance will look great

but you need to consider that most people won't experience either 1) any claims at all or 2) any claim will be fixed by walking into Verizon and having them replace the phone b/c it's covered by their warranty

with my old Env the battery latch broke after like 2 years, I walked into the store, and they gave me a new one.

 

[irishjoeyo]

Warranties do not cover damage, loss, or theft.

 

[makewayhomer]

Warranties do not cover damage, loss, or theft.

yes. do you know how many incidents of damage (not covered by mfctr warranty), loss, or theft I have had in 13 years? 1.

there was 1 time I had to buy a phone off craiglist b/c some drunk dude threw me into a pool, and water damage was not covered by the stock warranty. if something standard goes wrong with your device, it's highly likely to happen within the first year, and this is covered by Verizon

some incident occurrence like this is far closer to typical than 1 claim a year

 

[irishjoeyo]

I've only had 1 myself in about as many years. For all of those years that I did not have a claim but still carried insurance, it was still well worth the cost of insurance. So, it was a good deal. And that is how the majority of people feel.

 

[euph_22]

I've only had 1 myself in about as many years. For all of those years that I did not have a claim but still carried insurance, it was still well worth the cost of insurance. So, it was a good deal. And that is how the majority of people feel.

Then the majority of people are wrong, and we have Mathematical, actuarial and empirical data SHOWING they're wrong.

You've spent almost $1000 for your piece of mind; the same piece of mind I get by knowing I'd SAVE $800 to $700 in the same situation.

 

[cartisdm]

That is probably the best deal of all (if you have the self discipline not to touch that fund, of course)!

Self discipline to not touch it? Easy (for me at least). Remembering to put the money in each month is a different story. Probably best to set up an auto draft of some sort and not have to worry about it.

Actually, the more and more I think about it I wish I had done this. I've never actually cashed in on my insurance and had I been doing this all along it would be a really great thing in the long run....

 

[euph_22]

yes. do you know how many incidents of damage (not covered by mfctr warranty), loss, or theft I have had in 13 years? 1.

there was 1 time I had to buy a phone off craiglist b/c some drunk dude threw me into a pool, and water damage was not covered by the stock warranty. if something standard goes wrong with your device, it's highly likely to happen within the first year, and this is covered by Verizon

some incident occurrence like this is far closer to typical than 1 claim a year

I think the average for all phone is around 2.5-3 years. But I'm guessing people are alot less careful with phone they get for free than with smartphones.

 

[makewayhomer]

here is the other thing to consider about replacement cost

say someone throws me into a pool, and I have to go spend $350 out of pocket for a DINC on ebay. I have to use or some other phone until I can re up my contract, call it 10 months from now.

I can then resell the DINC on Ebay. what will it be worth at that point? $200? $250? Who knows. but the depreciation of a used cel phone over 10 months is not that high, I would bet you could get all but $100-$150 back or so.

but without considering resale value you guys are vastly overestimating your "expense in case of disaster". like I said above, its more like $150, max...not $600.

 

[euph_22]

The possibility of making a "catastrophic claim" on an insurance policy does not and does not solely determine whether or not a policy is "a bad deal". And where are you getting this "maximum claim" value of $350? Have you not read my multiple posts, either? State Farm offers a personal property policy that costs $30/year with no deductible and it covers $500. Furthermore, your "bad deal" claim can only be true if a) the person never files a claim over the 2-year contract and b) does not consider peace of mind to be something significant that they receive in return for their money. As I stated earlier, my screen shattered within a month. With Asurion, that's one insurance payment of $7.99 + deductible. With State Farm, that's $2.50 period. No deductible. And a brand new phone. That, my friend, is a great deal.

I was going to mention getting it with your Homeowners or Auto carrier. That can work in your favor, since it's just a small rider onto a much large policy (even if it's a seperate policy, the numbers work the same way). They can afford to break even or lose money, since they're making money on you overall.

 

[irishjoeyo]

Then the majority of people are wrong, and we have Mathematical, actuarial and empirical data SHOWING they're wrong.

There is no such data, since such a fact is true independent of mathematical equations. You're leaving out a crucial piece of information in your statement, which is that the value of the piece of mind that is gained by the consumer purchasing the insurance is entirely determined by that person and that person alone. If a person feels that the money that they spent on an insurance premium is worth the value of the piece of mind that they received for that money, even if they never filed a claim, that is a rational conclusion and it is not a "bad deal".