1. Download our Official Android App: Forums for Android!

Why the cards are stacked against the Android.

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by BobPaul, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. BobPaul

    BobPaul Well-Known Member
    Thread Starter
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    166
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010

    Aug 2, 2010
    166
    10
    38
    UP front just let me say I "hope" the Android stomps Apple. That said, I think it will have a rough time of doing so.

    Why? Well, for one the primary purveyor of Android does not derive a primary source of income from their efforts. Second, the companies providing Androids have no real reason nor ability to continually refine Android proper. And that last point really bugs me. The phone manufactures are not software developers and that leads to two issues, 1) they don't understand what it takes to develop software and 2) they are motivated to not do so. By point number 2 I mean they make money pumping out new phones. If they provide new things in currently deployed phones they are just cutting themselves out of revenue.

    What is the solution? Well for one how about they start charging for OS upgrades just like MS and Apple do? Would the market bear this?
     

    Advertisement

    Akg2016 likes this.
  2. SB13X

    SB13X Android Expert
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    113
    Posts:
    930
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010

    Jun 24, 2010
    930
    225
    113
    Rail Consultant
    Wigan, UK
    I'm pretty sure that with all the companies involved in the Open Handset Alliance and all their experience and business accumen that they will have all signed up to an agreement where they all get some sort of direct income from handset sales.

    That said it does result in an indirect purchase of an upgraded as each OS revision comes supplied with software requiring increases in computational power. This requirement causes the knock on effect resulting in handset manufacturers releasing a more capable handset. The sales of which results in further wealth distribution between Google and the Handset Manufacturer.
     
  3. zurich_is_stained

    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    5
    Posts:
    4
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010

    Aug 17, 2010
    4
    0
    5
    Good points, but Google is a company with a extremely broad outlook, and android forms an integral part of that. Google will throw all of its considerable weight behind the OS in order for android to succeed, leveraging off deals deals with content providers, carries etc. In five or ten years time, once cloud computing starts to cement amongst the masses, google and android will be in a prime position to exploit the market.

    Also, while your point regarding selling OS upgrades is valid, the other side of the coin is that Android will by its very nature appear on more phones on the market, increasing the number of users, and the incentives for apps developers, which is become more important every day.
     
  4. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    63
    Posts:
    170
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010

    Jan 24, 2010
    170
    25
    63
    Maryland
    I think you're also missing one of the main strengths of Android, namely that it is open source software which means that advancements aren't limited to development from either Google or the phone manufacturers.

    I agree that phone manufacturers are not the best software developers out there, but with Android they don't have to be. They can work on the parts of the OS that matter to them and the rest will largely take care of itself. Look at the success of OSX. Apple was smart in that they focused on the parts that matter to them (the interface) and left the parts they sucked at (pretty much everything else) to the UNIX pros. Contrast that with how Microsoft developed Vista/Win7 on their own. It was expensive and painful. Android is MUCH closer to the OSX model than the Win7 model.

    Also, Android is cheaper to start with since there are no licensing fees associated with it, and never will be. And to top it off, Google can't cut the phone manufacturers off from Android the way Microsoft could with Windows 7 or Apple with iOS. That gives them a level of stability not found in the other phone OS,.
     
  5. Big D

    Big D Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    56
    Posts:
    176
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010

    Jan 5, 2010
    176
    4
    56
    Upstate NY
    +1 But I don't think that charging for Android OS upgrades will ever be a viable option since 1) the phone manufacturers are never charged a license fee and 2)It's open source which contradicts the whole ideology.
     
  6. riki1kenobi

    riki1kenobi Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    43
    Posts:
    170
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010

    Aug 4, 2010
    170
    37
    43
    Bolton UK
    Are they stacked against though?

    You are taking a very narrow minded viewpoint here by believing that it is merely a phone based OS.

    Android should become the norm for the majority of platforms (be it in Mobile Internet Device, Home Computing, or even in wider fields such as Television, The Car Industry, Home Appliances etc, the scope is literally endless) as it offers something that NO other OS out there offers. The promise of True convergence and compatibility!

    Imagine the future of this fledgling OS and see the possibilities. All your data converged on every device you own (and with NO clouds in sight!).

    From the simple to the sublime, the possibilities are endless and have so far pretty much only existed in the realms of science fiction.

    For the media type. All your music and films accessible from whatever device you want to carry around with you. Accessible not only on your person but in the car, the office, the home.......With NO faffing around using proprietary software. Just click and play!

    For the business type. Awake to find all your data already synced to your device. No more having to find workarounds for different OS's, no more incompatibilities, no more having to wait for things. Oops, left my Laptop at home with all my work stuff loaded, no problem, it's all been synced to my phone!

    You're at work and you want to check your home security system. At present you need the following; Hardware, Software, PC, Internet Connection. Then you need a compatible device running the same software to view it all from! To set it up you need to make sure the hardware is compatible with the software you are running, the software needs to be compatible with the PC, the PC needs to be constantly on and lastly you need a decent internet connection! (Not even mentioned the cables and cost!)

    If this was running android you get rid of the need for a PC altogether as the hardware is already running the OS which is already compatible with any of your droid devices! You could in effect ditch the need for an internet connection as it could be run from a remote data connection. So in effect you could simply plug and play!

    That is the beauty of android, the boundaries are only limited by the imagination! Manufacturers will see this and begin to make products that the consumers want, NOT the other way around. It is already happening.......

    Will it fail? Not while the open source community are still pushing it it wont!
     
  7. Kabukiman

    Kabukiman Newbie
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    16
    Posts:
    21
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010

    Jul 15, 2010
    21
    1
    16
    Apple doesn't charge for iPhone updates, only iPod touch updates (somtimes). iOS 4 is free to all compatible devices.
     
  8. zurich_is_stained

    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    5
    Posts:
    4
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010

    Aug 17, 2010
    4
    0
    5
    Yeah, that's a great point.

    But as others have said already, Android is so much more than just a smart phone OS. It's a project, with a massive scope. The only thing I'm worried about is just how big google is aiming right now. I reckon in ten/twenty years time we'll look back on 2010 with hindsight and see how cleverly google stacked all its cards.

    What with the Verizon deal, and surrounding hooha, it really does seem that we're heading towards a google-dominated future. As much as I like Android, having one company with fingers in so many important pies scares me.
     
  9. gzigoris

    gzigoris Lurker
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    25
    Posts:
    4
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010

    Apr 8, 2010
    4
    0
    25
    Open Source is good not GREAT. What will really drive android is if someone can make money at it's development. Capitalism and the free market are not really dead.

    Have you even tried other open source software packages like Open Office? Hey it's a good package but not as great as MS office and it will always play catch up.

    Now give a person a chance to make money and you will get GREAT software not just good.

    George
     
  10. Isthmus

    Isthmus Android Expert
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    93
    Posts:
    772
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010

    Jan 6, 2010
    772
    119
    93
    Who says google derives no income from Android? Last I remember, android is packed with google apps. in fact some of the best apps available for android devices are made by google. It is google who is forwarding location based services, Search services, and most importantly All the advertising. Android is a HUGE advertising platform and has the potential to become a major market for google.

    As for hardware manufacturers having no incentive, that's just nonsense. Yes there has been fraqgmentation, but that is gradually disappearing as more and more manufacturers move toward high end , second gen devices and install the latest versions of Android. In addition, Google themselves has stated the android 3.0 will specifically address the look, feel and general eye candy of the UI and that their specific intention is for people and manufacturers to not need to download custom roms, desktop replacements, or install their own proprietary overlays.
     
    IOWA likes this.
  11. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    433
    Posts:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009

    Dec 2, 2009
    8,853
    2,370
    433
    Network Admin
    Chicago
    +1 Does everyone forget the next platform(already starting) that's going to get bombarded by advertising is mobile devices? Since Google makes all it's money from advertising well then.... I think(hope) you guys can do the math here.
     
  12. ari-free

    ari-free Android Expert
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    163
    Posts:
    1,495
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009

    Nov 2, 2009
    1,495
    155
    163
    Android is updated very quickly. This isn't like linux or the W3C where everyone has their own agenda and drags on and on for years. It's not a big, bureaucratic company, either. They will probably have Gingerbread by the time Microsoft's baby blue and white OS is out.
     
  13. BobPaul

    BobPaul Well-Known Member
    Thread Starter
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    166
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010

    Aug 2, 2010
    166
    10
    38
    ++++++
     
  14. bearsfan85

    bearsfan85 Android Enthusiast
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    53
    Posts:
    459
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010

    Feb 23, 2010
    459
    97
    53
    Microsoft Student Rep
    Urbana
    If you are very short sighted you may think android will fail but as previously sated in the thread it is much more than just a phone os. Look at googles acquisitions in the last year, they have bought advertising agencies along with bump technologies. Bump is a desktop environment for home computing which leads to android emerging at home. Someone else mentioned android in cars but I could see this going even further and going into other forms of transportation. Imagine getting on a plane logging into google and having all of your videos, mail, music right there. It sounds really futuristic but look what google has done in a recession imagine what they will be able to do with the os when even more people will create with it. Also remember google is coming out With chrome OS later this year which will get a whole new market and in the future probably intertwine android and chrome.
     
  15. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    63
    Posts:
    170
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010

    Jan 24, 2010
    170
    25
    63
    Maryland
    Since when are capitalism/free market at odds with open source? It is just another variant in a free market. The business plans in open source have to be different, but companies like IBM, Novell, RedHat and a TON of others are making good cash using open source. All open source really means is that businesses have to focus on what really differentiates them from the competition and for a lot of companies, service, not software, is the key differentiator.

    Actually, I've based my business on open source software, including Open Office. We've saved a pantload of cash on licensing fees and nobody notices that we don't use Office, including the employees. Near as I can figure, Office stopped adding useful features somewhere in the late 90s, if not before. Most of what they've done since then is simply bloat that few people use. As far as I'm concerned, Open Office gets the job done quite nicely and there is nothing to catch up to.

    A whole boatload of open source programmers are paid (including the Open Office devs). How is the software they produce any different or of lesser quality?
     
  16. riki1kenobi

    riki1kenobi Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    43
    Posts:
    170
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010

    Aug 4, 2010
    170
    37
    43
    Bolton UK
    Open source is GREAT not good imo. Why?
    1) It is mostly free from restrictions and is usually free to download.
    2) It is developed for the end user and NOT for the bottom line!

    I take it you dont develop software? From experience, money doth not make GREAT software!

    Photoshop is one of the prime examples here. CS5 costs around
     
  17. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    433
    Posts:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009

    Dec 2, 2009
    8,853
    2,370
    433
    Network Admin
    Chicago
     
  18. ThinkingDroid

    ThinkingDroid Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    16
    Posts:
    40
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010

    I disagree.....Android gives companies like Motorola and HTC and way of competing against the iPhone, cheap....otherwise, they have to develop their own OS (which is pricey and destined to fail), or use the Microsoft OS, which sucks and cost money.....Android is a cheap alternative, and is solid..it's already giving the iPhone a run, out the gate
     
  19. ari-free

    ari-free Android Expert
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    163
    Posts:
    1,495
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009

    Nov 2, 2009
    1,495
    155
    163
    Android isn't like those other open source projects. Android is developed by a company with very fast updates. So fast that they are outrunning Apple and Microsoft. Other open source projects drag on and on with half of the developers arguing over how pure its commitment is to the church of Stallman
     
  20. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Android Expert
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    113
    Posts:
    902
    Joined:
    May 16, 2010

    May 16, 2010
    902
    256
    113
    I tried to convert a 80 person company to Open Office but after 3 months, they switch back to MS Office. For 90% of users needs, OO works fine. However, we got into the other 10% where there were tricky formulas, vb macros, embedded linked OLE data. Well, you can't run a business if you can't open your client's files. We also had import/export issues like cells reading as text instead of numeric. Hence, the inability to run formulas. We had to export out of OO into .csv and re-import back into OO and save out as .xls. The word processor worked fine. It was the spreadsheet that gave us problems.


    Also, people should know that Oracle is ALSO the steward of Open Office and mySQL. Let see how they handle OO.
     
  21. storm14k

    storm14k Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008

    Oct 28, 2008
    95
    16
    38
    Its kinda like the OO vs Office argument. For a Photoshop Pro GIMP may not add up. For most people its more than enough.
     
  22. storm14k

    storm14k Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    38
    Posts:
    95
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008

    Oct 28, 2008
    95
    16
    38
    I'm already looking at KOffice and looking at alternatives to mySQL. No point in using something that can be ripped from under you. I would not be surprised if IBM cut Symphony's current OO base and built on top of something else making it an alternative to Oracle.
     
  23. gritz

    gritz Newbie
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    15
    Posts:
    25
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010

    Jul 22, 2010
    25
    0
    15
    Amazing ..... Droid & Android take the market by storm and you think you can garner attention by giving it a thumbs down? Have at it !!!
     
  24. PhoenixFx

    PhoenixFx Well-Known Member
    Rank:
    None
    Points:
    53
    Posts:
    111
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010

    Jul 26, 2010
    111
    91
    53
    Who says ?? Look around you, if you are talking about smartphones then Samsung recently came up with their own smartphone OS based on Linux called Bada, Nokia has been the driving force behind Symbian for over a decade, they also have their own linux based smartphone OS. Then there is Palm, RIM they all make their own smartphone OSs and phones.

    Then what about the software on non smartphones ?? Thy too have an operating system ! Just because their platform is closed and no APIs are published for external developers , or because you cant install applications (other than JAVA) doesn't mean its not an operating system , chips inside those phones also use software (firmware) to drive them, and there are applications too. So phone manufacturers DO DEVELOP SOFTWARE !! And they DO understand and know what they are doing.
     

Share This Page

Loading...