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Wifi might not be the issue.. GPS might be the issue

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by Lock-N-Load, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Lock-N-Load

    Lock-N-Load Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Interesting thread at XDA of people reporting real GPS issues..

    Once guy even said, he was told shockingly "Lol. I just called Asus csr. They told me that prime Gps does not work without a working wifi. I made the csr ask tech again and she said yes the prime needs wifi connection for gps to work if true... #asustransformerprime= #epicfail for me."

    can you imagine if that is true :thinking: in what truly valuable scenario do you need GPS and have a wifi connection?

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  2. thomslik

    thomslik Lurker

    I call BS on the whole GPS scare here. Maybe a few are bad, I don't know. I just unboxed mine a few minutes ago. Did the update while it was charging. Then I just had to try the GPS. I unplugged my wireless router, to make sure it wasn't being received, went outside and my Prime immediately located itself, and showed 10 satellites with the GSP Status app.

    Then I powered my router back on, went outside and walked out to the street. It's about 120+ feet away. I still had usable wifi despite the walls and trees.

    Now I need to force myself to leave this thing alone and let it get it's full initial battery charge!

    Did I mention I love it! Thanks again Office Depot!
    Richman21 likes this.
  3. Lock-N-Load

    Lock-N-Load Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    1 more day for me and I will know myself.

    Anyway, seems like there are a number of people reporting the issue, but glad you see otherwise. I will be curious if you can take it out into the car and get GPS and use maps and such?
  4. rsmin

    rsmin Well-Known Member


    Thanks for the quick review on gps and wifi. Glad everything is working on it. This helps all of us who have to wait a few more weeks to get ours.
  5. Gatman

    Gatman Android Enthusiast

    I hope everyone is waiting long enough for their first fix with the GPS before they start freaking out that it's broke. Time To First Fix (TTFF) can take a long time when the thing is first starting up: Time to first fix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Given the impatience to get these things, I'm really thinking folks are not waiting long enough to get the almanac downloaded an actually get their first fix. And if they're moving around while they're waiting it can take even longer. I'm not saying it's going to take 15 minutes like the above article says (they may be using aGPS as noted in the article), but it doesn't usuallly happen in 30 seconds the first time. If you're lucky and happen to flip it on and get the almanac right away, you may get a fix quickly. Then again, you may not. I've seen TTFF as long as 6 or 7 minutes on a few of my devices. After the first one it's usually fairly quick if you use it regularly.

  6. theandies

    theandies Android Enthusiast

    Agreed. It takes my cell phone up to 5 minutes sometimes to get a fix. People are just so impatient these days. Everything is instant gratification. Slow down people.
  7. vincey2kr1

    vincey2kr1 Newbie

    Are you getting 20m accuracy like I am?
  8. Lock-N-Load

    Lock-N-Load Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    you guys with 5 min acquires times on your cell phone?? man, my OG Droid is nearly instantly :)
  9. rushmore

    rushmore Extreme Android User

    That sounds like wifi, since that is what Maps says, even with GPS off on my Flyer and View.
  10. rushmore

    rushmore Extreme Android User

    That is a lot better than the Trans 1, but Anandtech stated Prime is significantly weaker than the Trans 1. Weird.
  11. rgpie75

    rgpie75 Newbie

    I just tried mine outside. Used GPS Essentials and gave it about 10 minutes. Was able to see 1 or 2 satellites but never able to get a fix. At least it was able to see a couple. Maybe that at least means it works. I'll try it again later. If there is a problem hopefully it is software and not hardware.
  12. rushmore

    rushmore Extreme Android User

    Could be the same issue also impacting wifi (the all aluminum chassis).
  13. rgpie75

    rgpie75 Newbie

    Could be, though I'm not having any problems with wifi. I don't think I'll have much use for gps anyway but I would like it to work just in case I ever do.
  14. Lock-N-Load

    Lock-N-Load Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Its a real issue guys. In my house using GPS Test my phone gets 7 locks in seconds @ 50ft accuracy & my Asus ... nothing in 5 minutes but 1 signal & no locks!
  15. rsmin

    rsmin Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. I had a garmin once that wouldn't pick up anything inside the house until I took it outside. Have you tried taking it outside?
  16. Gatman

    Gatman Android Enthusiast

    Why oh why do people insist on complaining about the GPS not working indoors? Dense foliage can block a GPS signal - so imagine what walls of your house will do. As receivers and have gotten more and more sensitive over the last few years they have the ability to now work in places where they previously haven't, but that doesn't guarantee they will work indoors. Depending on what receiver is used in a device, the ability to lock in adverse conditions can vary greatly from device to device. Just because your phone can doesn't mean your Transformer will, or even that there is anything wrong with the Transformer.

    I have had my Garmin Nuvi take 15 minutes on a couple occasions (when it had been off for an extended period and was also moved to a completely new location across country). Acquiring the current almanac can take a while, and moving around while you're doing can make it worse (and the Garmin is a dedicated GPS device with a sensitive receiver). Once it completely flaked out and showed me on the other side of the country for over an hour until I shut it off and restarted it. Things like this can happen to any device.

    If you've not sat outside for 15 minutes (sitting still) for your first lock, you should try again. If that doesn't work you should reboot the device and try again. If you're not willing to do that you are just wasting your time and everyone else's complaining it doesn't work, because you really haven't tried. I'm fairly certain for $499/$599 we're not getting the most sensitive or top-of-the-line GPS in these things.

    andygu3 likes this.
  17. GatorsUF

    GatorsUF Well-Known Member

    I am no tech guru, but I do remember when I had my HTC Touch Pro (windows phone), there was an app that you could download the latest gps info to get a better lock. Maybe this is the reason they say you have to have wifi on to get a lock. Once its updated and downloads the satellite info for your location it will work fine without WiFi.

    Imagine if it was turned on in Tiawan during assembly it would have gotten the satellites for that side of the earth, you will obviously be looking for different satellites over here, but it doesn't know that.

    Again this is all speculation, but it made sense in my head.
  18. Gatman

    Gatman Android Enthusiast

    You are absolutely correct. If you move it more than about 300 miles, it can cause it to go flakey. Here are a couple quotes from a website I was just reading about this very problem (here - I realize this is for a stand-alone gps, but the theory of how they work is the same):

    "In order for GPS receivers to function, they need to know three critical pieces of information. These are the current date and time, the receiver's location on the earth and the location of the satellites in orbit. When a GPS receiver has these three pieces of information, it performs a normal startup procedure, called a "warm start," and will typically begin displaying a position in less than one minute. When a GPS receiver does not have this information, however, it must perform a much slower "cold start" routine that can take up to 20 minutes. The wide variance between the warm and cold starts highlights the significant challenge that a GPS receiver faces when it must search the entire available sky for a GPS signal that is not much stronger than the overall background noise."

    Another important piece of info:

    "GPS receivers use two different search methodologies, depending on whether they are performing a warm or cold start. Warm starts are much quicker than cold starts because the GPS receiver knows exactly where to look in the sky to acquire a satellite signal. Sometimes, however, GPS receivers get confused and think they have enough information about the current date and time, their location on the earth, and the location of the satellites in orbit to perform a warm start. When some of the data is wrong, the GPS receiver may never acquire any satellites because it is using a narrow search routine in the wrong area of the sky. If your GPS receiver does not acquire any satellites within 5 to 10 minutes, force it into its cold start routine, which will cause it to search the entire sky. Check the documentation specific to your GPS model to see how to reset it, or clear its memory."

    Lastly, from here, "[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The receiver may also have to be initialized if it was moved several hundred miles since its last use."[/FONT] I think it's safe to assume these have moved several hundred miles since their last use, if they were every initialized previously at all.

    Turning wifi off like many folks over at XDA are saying to do is likely only exacerbating the situation. A-GPS uses wifi or other data to get a better guesstimate of your location to speed up your initial lock. Also, sitting on your couch trying to do a cold start is just plain silly - get a clear view of the sky. Good, strong signals from a clear sky will help get an initial lock. I had to stop reading the thread over at XDA because it was so littered with inaccuracies and people jumping to conclusions I just couldn't take it any longer.

  19. Lock-N-Load

    Lock-N-Load Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    To some of you poo pooing the issue. If your phone, inside, can pickup and lock in on 6-7 satellites in seconds and yet the Prime, in 15-20 minutes sees 1 and locks to nothing... really, is there anything more to say?

    My phones didnt need reinitialized when I bought them and I am sure they came from a ways away.

    Also, in that 28 page thread with 15,000+ views - what does that tell you - I was one of the first to mention AGPS. But even then, inside or outside, aluminum case or not matters very little. When you do a 1 for 1 side by side test with your phone - and mine is an OG Droid that uses AGPS - and you get this disparity in results and your test is done at the same time in same location.. there is clearly an issue.
  20. Gatman

    Gatman Android Enthusiast

    I guess you didn't read anything I posted about how GPS works. So you're the expert. We can all rest easy now. You don't know what brand of receiver is in your prime, or what sensitivity it has, and you're comparing it to your phone, for which you don't have that information either. That's a complete waste of time.

    You said you sat on your couch for 5 minutes and didn't get a lock. Well, that's no big surprise to me, but you refuse to acknowledge any of the information I posted above about how GPS works or why it works the way it does.

    I saw the post at XDA, and as I noted above I had to stop reading it because it was so full of misinformation it was ridiculous.
  21. Gatman

    Gatman Android Enthusiast

    Oh wait...15,000 people viewed that thread...it must be true!
  22. Lock-N-Load

    Lock-N-Load Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    Are you for real? Don't you think their is a correlation between views and number of pages and number of posts and thus the topic at hand? If a thread as 3 pages and 200 views and one has 30 pages and over 15000 views, it is not meaningful? Geez.. ignorance reigns supreme here.
  23. Lock-N-Load

    Lock-N-Load Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    It is not about misinformation.. it is much simpler than that but you want to take the issue in a different direction and waste time talking technicalities as though the issue is not there. You can dismiss it all you want, but riddle me this..

    A 2 year old phone - using AGPS - can get 6-7 satellites locked in seconds. A sate of the art tablet using AGPS can get 0 locks in 20 minutes in the same location as the phone. A simple, easy, clear cut question. How? Why?

    Answer = flaw in the Asus tablet. Period.

    And BTW, I dont need you to tell me how GPS and AGPS works - especially when you just cut and pasted someone else's info I already knew. So really, you didn't offer anything. I am offering real world personal user experience. Explain it?
    thomslik likes this.
  24. andygu3

    andygu3 Android Expert

    Let's keep it civil in here please:D:D:D:D:D
  25. JackG058

    JackG058 Well-Known Member

    Reading through Gatman's response, I wonder if the fact that the cell phone positions itself due to cellular towers, so thus the GPS "knows" where it is, versus the Prime needing this initialization period since it only has WiFi to assist in location. Just a thought. Wish I had my Prime so that I could test this theory. :)
    davidchsw and andygu3 like this.

ASUS Eee Pad Transformer Forum

The ASUS Eee Pad Transformer release date was April 2011. Features and Specs include a 10.1" inch screen, 5MP camera, 1GB RAM, and Nvidia Tegra 2 T20 processor.

April 2011
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