Windows Phone Is So Dead...

[kblanco]

Okay, so it's not like I'm going to leave Android and grab a Windows Phone or anything... I mean they have less than a one percent market share of users and are described as being buggy and lacking to say the least. But the other day it just hit me, Windows Phone must really be dead. I'm in the mall, Northpark in Dallas, TX, which has a Microsoft Store. Now it wasn't as busy as the Apple Store further down the concourse or anything, but they actually had a reasonably respectable crowd.

However the thing I noticed was a slew of desktops and laptops and even a few XBoxes. But no Windows Phones absolutely anywhere in that store! The last time I had been in, I like to look, they had several tables of Windows Phones, but this time the only Windows Phone they had was in a clear plastic box and it was advertising a dock that you'd get along with the purchase of an HP laptop, purpose unknown but perhaps Continuum? But you know that Windows Phone is dead when even a flagship Microsoft Store in Dallas doesn't even have any models out on the floor...

 

[psionandy]

Yup... unless you're a corporation wanting to buy multiple HP X3 and docking stations, I think its done.

I was looking for a cheap one to play around with... and the cheap ones that were available this time last year have all gone....

 

[mikedt]

But you know that Windows Phone is dead when even a flagship Microsoft Store in Dallas doesn't even have any models out on the floor...

The flagship Microsoft Store in Jinan has Sony Xperia Android phones out on show. In fact they never did have any Windows phones, just a couple of dummies over a year ago. ....and if you actually wanted to buy one, it had to be ordered.

 

[mikedt]

Yup... unless you're a corporation wanting to buy multiple HP X3 and docking stations, I think its done.

I was looking for a cheap one to play around with... and the cheap ones that were available this time last year have all gone....

Apparently we can still buy the cheap one here, shipped from Beijing. ...but it's obviously an import though.

Think it would be rather useless as a smart-phone in China, because most of the IMO useful apps are Android or iOS only. Also it would only be fully usable on China Unicom, 2G only on China Mobile, and not at all on China Telecom.

 

[kblanco]

Yup... unless you're a corporation wanting to buy multiple HP X3 and docking stations, I think its done.

I was looking for a cheap one to play around with... and the cheap ones that were available this time last year have all gone....

Thinking about what you said, I checked on Ebay. Windows Phones running Windows 10 yes can be a bit pricey. But if you're just looking for a toy, perhaps consider a device running Windows Phone 8. I saw that they can be picked up cheap. If you, I or anyone else is just looking for a toy then do we really need the latest and greatest from Microsoft? Admittedly I've thought about it also...

 

[n2audio]

I recently left WP for Android. I REALLY appreciated the streamlined aspect of the OS. Unfortunately, it was just a matter of their app selection. Based on my experience I have no reason to believe WP would have been a failure if they'd kept their apps on the same level as Apple and Google.

 

[Hadron]

But there's the problem: how do you get developers to write for your platform if not many people are using it? For a late entrant into the smartphone platform game that is the central problem that MS never solved.

(I think their other misstep was to try to build on Windows brand-recognition by building a common look and feel with the desktop. They had got that wrong before, by basing their early PDAs' interfaces too closely on a desktop model that was awkward on a small screen, but that was a smaller market with weaker competitors. This time the error was to build quite a nice phone UI but then try to force elements of it onto the desktop in Windows 8, where it didn't work and where I doubt it encouraged anyone to try their phones. A shame because the phone UI itself was quite effective and different from other mobile platforms).

 

[kate]

Looking at the numbers, this report shows Windows Phones sales and market share going way down from 4th quarter 2015 to 2016.

2015 4th quarter market share: 1.1%
2016 4th quarter market share: 0.3%

2015 4th quarter sales: 4.4 million
2016 4th quarter sales: 1.1 million

1st quarter, 2nd quarter, and 3rd quarter 2015 to 2016 had a similar downward trend for Windows Phone, so it does look like they are in a slump. Right now the Microsoft Store has about a dozen phone options, although 3 of them have the older Windows 8.

 

[dontpanicbobby]

Pocket PC Phones were better than Windows Phones but, you know, vanity is a sin or something...

 

[kblanco]

Based on my experience I have no reason to believe WP would have been a failure if they'd kept their apps on the same level as Apple and Google.

True, true. I mean it's a vicious circle, you can't have one without the other but you don't have one because you don't have the other. I personally think they also needed to improve the fit, finish and look of their devices which to be truthful had come up considerably in the last couple of years.

But personally I think the market could sustain three operating phone systems similar to how we have so many brands of (insert some product) that they each do the same thing. I mean while some things do only interface with Apple OR Android, generally speaking there are so many things that interface with both; with a little more effort they'd interface with a third. But alas because of that vicious circle I guess we'll never know...

I think what if anything really did them in occured at the beginning of WP. Namely that they just waited to long. Both Apple and Google had been working on the next generation phone, and Apple's was the first to market and decidedly better. Google spent their time back at the drawing board but was still only a year later or so it was then Android debuted. By the time WP finally was introduced the folks had already made their allegences. Had it all happened in quick succession, Apple, Android, WP, back to back to back - and arguably WP's quality been better from the outset (less toyish more upscale) - then who knows? It might today be a three platform coexistence... They simply waited to long and the consumer, and consequently app and product developers, had made their decisions...

 

[kblanco]

Hadron said.... "(I think their other misstep was to try to build on Windows brand-recognition by building a common look and feel with the desktop. They had got that wrong before, by basing their early PDAs' interfaces too closely on a desktop model that was awkward on a small screen, but that was a smaller market with weaker competitors. This time the error was to build quite a nice phone UI but then try to force elements of it onto the desktop in Windows 8, where it didn't work and where I doubt it encouraged anyone to try their phones. A shame because the phone UI itself was quite effective and different from other mobile platforms)."

Well I don't know if the tile structure that Windows had switched to led to the demise of Windows Phone necessarily. I mean you can do a lot with the tile type launcher, custom sizing of and placement of tiles, the creation of folders. Different backing wallpapers and the transparency of said tiles so as to allow the wallpaper to shine through. I actually like the tile launcher and even for a while had downloaded a launcher for Android that mimicked the look of a Windows Phone. If anything I'd give points to Windows Phone for being original in that they just didn't dump a bunch of app icons on a desktop. Perhaps if Windows Phone had been more open then users of the device would have more customized types of tile like how Android has a variety of icon packs.

But folks can get used to multiple operating systems. Our computers between home and work are undoubtedly arranged differently and/or we use different programs. At work I use genuine Microsoft Office products, but at home I'm running LibreOffice because it's freeware and I don't use the Office type of products enough to warrant shelling out for actual Office. My computer at home and work are set up completely differently.

Where in my opinion Microsoft went wrong was that they tried to reinvent the wheel as it pertained to the computer. They rebuilt Office ditching the tried and true toolbar type setup, I quickly became the "go to" person for Office help in my business, a hotel. Also I for a while was asked by hotel guests to help them in the business center as they were at a loss for the new Office ribbons. Microsoft also reinvented Windows with the removal of the Start button and the forced upon the user experience of the tile desktop. This in a world where most folks machines didn't support, and still don't support, touchscreens and many of our software programs that we generally speaking use don't support touch. It begs the question, "why exactly did you feel the need???" I don't feel irked by tiles on Windows Phone, like I said I give them points for originality. I do however feel irked by tiles on my desktop, I deduct points for being unnecessarily original, and Classic Shell was one of the first things I downloaded to get back my original desktop when I upgraded from Vista to Windows 8 via a new laptop.

The mobile internet did however much need a change, I'll give you that. My first smartphone was an Android device, so I can't comment on what smart mobile devices were like before IOS and Android. However my younger brother had a smartphone before they were called smartphones as he was/is something of a world business traveler. It was a brick compared to what devices are today and it ran Windows CE, I think, and included a stylus. It was very much literally the traditional Windows experience and involved a lot of scrolling up and down and left and right. It also actually ran Office and other programs similar to how they'd look and function on a traditional desktop. Had smartphones tried to field that kind of experience I'm not so sure we'd be living in a mobile world right now. The mobile industry and consumers needed the change that IOS and Android brought.

 

[Hadron]

Oh, I wasn't arguing that the tile interface was responsible for the demise of Windows Phone, just that tiling the desktop in an attempt to "unify the experience", rather than being a selling point for the phone was a bad move for the desktop, and if people did associate Windows Phone with Windows 8 I doubt that helped MS the way they hoped

To be fair to MS, I find Win 10 much better than Win 8, though I'm only an occasional Windows user (mainly Mac and Linux). The thought of using Win 8 without a touchscreen filled me with horror!

 

[kblanco]

Oh, I wasn't arguing that the tile interface was responsible for the demise of Windows Phone, just that tiling the desktop in an attempt to "unify the experience", rather than being a selling point for the phone was a bad move for the desktop, and if people did associate Windows Phone with Windows 8 I doubt that helped MS the way they hoped

To be fair to MS, I find Win 10 much better than Win 8, though I'm only an occasional Windows user (mainly Mac and Linux). The thought of using Win 8 without a touchscreen filled me with horror!

Oh. Sorry about that. Admittedly I had to stop and think about what it was you were saying and I guess I guessed wrong. I don't know if folks really made the connection between a handheld Windows device and a Windows PC being a unified experience. Rather I think users were already firmly entrenched with either IOS or Android and asked, "why change?" Does one really have some killer thing that the other doesn't have? I mean I really was intrigued by Windows Phone but even I asked those questions. Comparatively as a lite PC user I stayed with Vista and ended up skipping 7 completely jumping to 8 only because my laptop finally gave it up, not because I wanted a change. I'd still be on my laptop running Vista as I'm a lite user, but the laptop finally died which spurred my change.

If anything I think not necessarily because Windows Phone was a bad device, but that they were just late to the party is why they never really took off. Folks now don't switch, some do, between Android and IOS for no other reason then they they'd have to buy a new device and they've already shelled out some amount of money for paid apps that don't translate between platforms. I've got a pinball game for Android that I've shelled out about thirty dollars for various tables. They have an IOS version, but they don't just let you jump from version to version, I'd have to buy all my tables again. I don't have anything against IPhone, other than the lack of user customization, but I have to ask myself the question, "...if I like what I have, then why do I need to switch?" Consequently you build yourself out in one ecosystem and it quietly can harbor you into not switching. Assuming some better market share obviously and the apps that come with that better market share, if I had a slew of free apps and just a spattering of low cost apps I had paid for, I'd might've switched. But I did the math, and if I were to switch I'd be looking at a chunk of change on top of the hassle that switching can come with...

 

[Hadron]

Ironically my Windows use is totally out of step with yours: we stuck with XP on the family PC, bypassed Vista, and currently have 7 (having decided not to upgrade that machine to 10). I mainly know 8 and 10 from the kids' laptops. I use Mac and Linux for work (and my work laptop for some personal use), Android phone and tablet, and we have an iPad lying around the house. Win Phone is about the one platform I've never owned (and that stripped down pseudo windows they put on some early Atom-based Windows tablets)

I agree that the fundamental problem with Windows Phone was that it was too late. But they knew they were late, and had a lot of resources they could have thrown at it. Somehow they never got it together enough. I used to see people using them, but it's been a while now - heck, I probably see more Blackberries these days (and they are dawned rare).

 

[Spec2nirvash]

Windows could have done/been soooo much better, for the last few mobile platforms they've released. On a Winphone, the tile desktop, while I agree is original and kinda nifty, could have been better. It's useless, and you can't customize it to look anything like, a standard desktop (Windows security protocol does not allow devs to create customization apps that would make it look better). The same style desktop we've been looking at on Androids, iPhones, insert any version windows here also. May be great new thing for some, not me.

The app store is also completely lacking, even the most basic of all apps. CNN, MSN, decent YouTube player, Snapchat, PayPal, eBay etc. It is very similar to the BlackBerry app world, bursting at the seams with malware laced rubbish, and even more ridiculously expensive rubbish that doesn't work at all.

I've grown sick of Android myself, easing myself back into BlackBerry. BB10's only redeeming feature is the ability to easily sideload/run most Android 4.3 apps. Me thinks, uh, Microsoft's project Astoria is no longer? If so, well... Shit. If you can't at least fudge Android apps onto a Windows phone, it's of zero use to me. Other than horrible app selection, not much personalization, and weird/busy UI with settings completely lacking consolidation, it's a decent phone. If you just need pinch web search, maps, and email, it's OK but nothing special. If the apps were there, I'd have kept using Windows.

 

[kblanco]

I think I remember hearing something about Windows Phones toying with being able to load Android apps. Sort of like MS, through whomever, would make the devices and I guess WP would become an OS / launcher and you could load Android apps. I remember it being referred to as a last stand course of action. Then I didn't hear anything else about it so I figured, rightly so apparently, that it was ultimately shelved..

 

[OrigSleuth]

My firm gave me a Windows phone, and certainly after Windows Phone 8.1 it did the trick. The aps that I needed were well written, and available. The best thing I loved about it was the synchronisation with Windows computers.

It is true that a late entry into the market causes issues, I remember way back when things like MSX, Commodore 64, Spectrum & Amstrad were household names for computers. If a new computer arrived, with a new operating system, it rarely sold because the software did not exist. Software houses would only develop software if it would sell. Amstrad broke the mold by hiring software houses to develop software & releasing it under their own brand name.

The other issue which is a major problem in switching operating devices - the lack of transferability of data. Each O/s makes it as hard as possible to transfer things like contacts, calendar etc from one O/s to another. I had the "joy" of trying to persuade Android to upload the contacts to the new phone. (Thanks guys for the help.)

I used extensively Windows 8 & 8.1 and now use Windows 10. Windows 8/8.1 is not as bad as people think - once you got used to it. The Windows version I used previously was XP.

I think Windows phone is indeed dead, which is a shame!

 

[Rob]

Microsoft should have sunk billions of dollars into a program that gave a low/midrange windows smartphone to anyone who purchased a Windows laptop or desktop.

It would have put devices into so many hands and acted as the catalyst they needed.

Giving up on smartphones was NOT a good idea IMO. Buying and then giving up on Nokia seemed equally stupid.

But hey... I'm a guy who still misses WebOS, too.

 

[Spec2nirvash]

Yeah that would be Project Astoria, being able to run Android apps. It was, of course abandoned. Figures. If I could run my daily Android apps and tailor the UI a bit, I'd have been happy. Despite the Nokia 640 I used being a bit on the weaker side spec-wise, it is a wonderful phone for the $30 I paid for it. Perfect size, interchangeable shells, good photos, and HD display.

Rob it was bad enough what Microsoft is doing with Windows Mobile, but to take, perhaps at one point the best phone manufacturer and flush it down the toilet is unforgivable. Last time I was at TMobile phone shopping, I saw an Alcatel Idol 4 running WinMobile for a whopping $400-something. And the windows store in the same mall is always dead lol... 9 different phones that all do the same thing as a 640, just with different cameras or display rez.