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Root With root, why do we need custom roms?

Discussion in 'Android Devices' started by WACOMalt, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. WACOMalt

    WACOMalt Newbie
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    Please read this before you assume I'm an idiot ;) Thanks.

    Anyways, so my thinking is, we can root our Droid X. This gives us access to every system file... amirite?

    If that's the case, shouldn't it be possible to literally replace everything using some super user priviledged apk? I know linux well, and I know some android development stuff, but I don't know anything about custom roms (on android at least) and how efuse works, so I obviously could be completely off base here.

    The only hitch I see would be that while the phone is running, many many many of these files are likely in use. It just seems there would be some way to close everything (and I mean EVERYTHING), with the phone still running, and replace all system files with a new set.

    Now I'm not entirely savvy on how efuse works, and I'm even less sure on how changing the system this way would, from efuse's eyes, differ from a full custom rom flashing, and if, if it did work, you'd still be bricked on the next reboot...

    Thoughts? I mean it at least seems that we could find a way to replace motoBlur. :)
     

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  2. VIO

    VIO Android Enthusiast
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    I think the main problem is trying to swap out a kernel while the current one is running, which is...messy to say the least. Tho the Milestone has something like this going on but it is not really comparable to true ROM swapping.

    Honestly that is really the point of a Bootloader, an independent piece o software that isn't attached to the OS/kernel so can alter it completely. so While Root gives you access to everything in the OS you really need access one level out to do that level of alteration.

    Tho, at least it is theoretically possible (really theoretical)
     
  3. shadowdude777

    shadowdude777 Android Expert
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    This is what I was thinking when I initially heard that the Droid X has root but the bootloader won't allow us to install things as well. I mean, if you read the "classic Linux horror story", you quickly realize that Linux can still run even as a (pun intended) shell of its former self.
     
  4. JrzDroid

    JrzDroid Android Expert
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    i just want to overclock
     
  5. brian0488

    brian0488 Newbie
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    Android 2.2 has some major changes over 2.1. The ability to install custom ROMs will allow you to install 2.2 before Verizon / Motorola say it's ok.

    I'm not a ROM devolper, so I might be wrong here but I think things like Blur and Sense are tied in pretty tight to the ROM, so you can't just delete / remove certain files to go from Blur to Sense or vanilla android. You will need a custom ROM to do that.
     
  6. Piiman

    Piiman Android Expert
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    I'm betting 2.2 will be out LONG before we can flash a custom ROM. We may never be able to unless we get some inside info from Motorola. :(
     
  7. shadowdude777

    shadowdude777 Android Expert
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    I feel like the last two people that posted didn't grasp what the OP was saying...

    A custom ROM is just a compilation of modified Android system files, right? So theoretically we could just replace everything on the phone. The only hurdle would be replacing files that are in use.
     
  8. Piiman

    Piiman Android Expert
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    Oddly you seemed to have nailed the current method that birdman is using. From what I understand You/we will install an apk that allows an app, that writes a file, that once you reboot high jacks the start up. It does this super early and gives you complete access to the system , or any, folder(nothing is active). So instead of flashing roms we'll be replacing the system.

    Oh and I was totally wrong two post back :)

    in case you haven't seen

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMPUcY71Yc&feature=player_embedded
     
  9. JrzDroid

    JrzDroid Android Expert
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    hijacking the system before it can load, INGENIOUS!
     
  10. izomiac

    izomiac Member
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    To my knowledge, the problem is that the first stage bootloader is stored in a protected area. The bootloader as a whole (not sure of the stage, but probably not first) reputedly checks both kernel version and features before booting it.

    But, if that protection can be defeated then we could just do a low level flash while the phone is booted. It's below the level of the filesystem, so opened files don't matter, though you have to close everything to minimize the risk of a crash. That's the way routers running OpenWRT are flashed, and, amusingly enough, that developer seems to be working on this phone as well.

    OTOH, since we should have access to the bootscripts, we can basically control everything except kernel features. My linux knowledge is at a weird place between complete newb and adept, but IIRC there's a way to load a new kernel without rebooting (used to patch kernel security bugs on high uptime servers), but I'm not sure about the details. Despite being locked down, Linux is versatile enough that I don't think the protections are as serious a hindrance as people make them out to be.
     
  11. Nightwind Hawk

    Nightwind Hawk Well-Known Member
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    Yeah... isn't it funny how fast this has happened?? :D I saw your post and thought "HUH? What's he talking about?" and then looked at the date and thought.. "oh this is a few days ago.."

    Incredible!
     
  12. Piiman

    Piiman Android Expert
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    they lost a lot of post also when the site went down. i just happen to scroll back and see my post and thought it was funny seeing how things have changed.

    It kind made me a flip flopper..guess Ill never run for office.
     
  13. LexusBrian400

    LexusBrian400 Android Enthusiast
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    Automotive Electrical Technician / Mechanic
    I'm a drifter.. here and there.
    You know you can overclock right now right?

    for now, its as good as its gonna get. Even with custom roms, we cant modify the kernel which mean no modular overclocking. Sorry, but its gonna be a while :(
     
  14. Piiman

    Piiman Android Expert
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    The birdman and crew "have high hopes" they can also get the kernel.
     
  15. LexusBrian400

    LexusBrian400 Android Enthusiast
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    I'm a drifter.. here and there.
    As do I.

    But you know the saying...

    Wish in 1 hand and shit in the other, see which one gets filled first.
     
  16. Piiman

    Piiman Android Expert
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    But you know the saying...

    Wish in 1 hand and shit in the other, see which one gets filled first.[/QUOTE]

    I was like you once.:thinking:

    take a look at post #6 and note the date then look at post 8 again note the date:D that was only a 9 day span. I didn't even have time to shit in my other hand (thank God)

    And after watching their video they seemed fairly certain they will do it.
     
  17. xclr82xtc

    xclr82xtc Well-Known Member
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    birdman penis before that video...


    Birdman penis AFTER that video



    lol
     
  18. Piiman

    Piiman Android Expert
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    ??:thinking: I don't get it :eek:..................
     

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