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worrisome article I read in google news

Discussion in 'Android Lounge' started by rcyphermd, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. rcyphermd

    rcyphermd Android Expert
    Thread Starter

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  2. MileHighAko

    MileHighAko Newbie

    Not sure if you're a troll or not, but either way unless you're specific about what concerns you, not sure there is anything for anyone to comment about.
  3. rcyphermd

    rcyphermd Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    No I am not a troll. I switched from the Pre to the Hero and love it. I convinced 5 of my coworkers to go with the hero also. I am not too techy, but the article concerned me regarding how apps are limited by the android os. If you read all 3 pages of this apple-biased article, it causes me to have questions that I do not know the answer to.
  4. Robchaos

    Robchaos Well-Known Member

    Just from skimming the article I found it to have a condescending tone towards google. It is heavily apple biased and a lot of it seemed to be based on opinion not fact.

    This is from the article: "as new Android phones are released with new versions of Android that last year's phones can't even install, the installed base of Android will fail to compound. A key facet to Apple's App Store success is that virtually all apps run on any model of iPhone ever sold, not to mention the iPod touch, which is now adding another wide swath of users to Apple's App Store installed base."

    This is comparing apples to oranges. The apple OS was specifically designed for one line of devices, and one line alone, whereas the android OS is now being used on a wide range of devices from many different manufacturers, and on both GSM and CDMA networks. Devices that have full capacitive touchscreens, and devices that have physical keyboards. It is even being used compatibly with HTCs sense UI. I would expect slight compatibility issues from device to device, but nothing that couldn't be fixed with minimal work. I fail to see a problem

    That is my take on everything.
  5. kassdog

    kassdog Well-Known Member

    I do see where that snip of the article makes sense though. Even when I first got the phone I was confused because I'm buying a new phone with Android 1.6 but they also released a phone with Android 2.0. Now I wondered when I would get 2.0. Then as I read more about Android and started to wonder if I would get it at all. There are a lot of versions and a lot of different types of Android which could be confusing to some.
  6. ari-free

    ari-free Android Expert

    Apple is a lot like AOL and android is like the internet.

    AOL was very easy and became very popular. It also looked nicer. The first webpages looked like total crap compared to the AOL experience. But the ability to do anything you wanted won out and now everyone uses the internet.
  7. WaLkeR

    WaLkeR Member

    Ya I'm so tired of seeing links from Apple's site which is instilling doubts about Android... Then you look up the credibility and it's zero... Just like their commercials saying Verizon can't be on the phone and search the web at the same time... Little do those morons know that I have an Eris which I can be talking to someone and doing WHATEVER I WANT at the sametime, including searching the web, yes.
  8. rcyphermd

    rcyphermd Android Expert
    Thread Starter

    what confused/concerned me about the article was the issue of app size and how much memory it takes on the android. It sounds like (from their bias) that android will have very limited size apps because of the OS. I am not techy enough to understand it. By the way, this was the lead story under technology for google news a couple of days ago. I love my hero....just trying to learn more.
  9. tony_ack

    tony_ack Lurker

    The same arguments were used against IBM compatible PCs. Apple are Apple, they'll never change. Controlling the hardware and software will give them reliable, backwards-compatible Macs/iPods/iPhones, but their lack of flexibility and openness will set them back.

    There will also come a breaking point where Apple will have to choose to stop supporting old phones , otherwise it will hold back development of better software. e.g. why can't the original iPod not use the latest iPod Touch software?

    It's great that I can use new software on my old phone, but it's better that I can do what I want with my phone, when I want.

    BTW I think Apple are more successful now than they have been at the past, as they're dealing with a new kind of user who LIKES having everything on a plate for them, and doesn't want to deviate too far from the path laid out for them.
    Why would a casual user (read: sheep) want to use tethering to connect their laptop to the internet, when they can make do with the phone's browser?
    Why would a casual user want to get apps off the internet, and install them on their phone via a PC when the app store is so easy to use?
    Why would a casual user want to mess about changing their home screen layout when what Apple has given them is okay, at least 50% useful and looks pretty enough?
    Why would a casual user want to run more than one app at a time, when they don't know what multitasking means?
  10. rumdood

    rumdood Newbie

    Um, not unless you're using VOIP for the call or wireless (802.11) for the data. CDMA doesn't allow for voice and data at the same time. It's a limitation of the network type.

    I've already run into this once. It wasn't a big deal, but it's a real limitation, it does exist.
  11. sergey

    sergey Android Enthusiast

    The droid only has 256mb available for apps, officially. Which puts a big limit on how many apps you can store, especially games on the iPhone, which can easily go up to 100MB+. I just don't understand why they did this. Why not store apps on the SD card? Security reasons, according to Google. Fine. Then put in GBs of internal memory onto the phones. Samsung did it with the i7500- it's got 8GB of internal memory. Does HTC and Motorola not realize this? I think this is hurting the selection of apps. Make a game that's 100mb and nobody will because it will take up almost 1/2 of your available memory. On a phone with GBs of internal memory? Not a problem. Samsung knows what's going on.

    Really this and the lack of apps were the main reason why I returned my Droid. Right now, for me it's a one trick pony- the OS is fun to use but the apps limit it. With a 2yr agreement, I don't want to be left behind when Android 4.0 gets too big and/or I can't download the cool new games because of a 256MB limitation. For me, if Android had the same selection of apps as the iPhone, I'd be on the Droid now.

    In terms of the casual user, that is where the money is at. Yes there will always be a small market for people who want more control, who want to tinker. But most people just want the device to work, make things easy in exchange for a lack of choices.

    Really, in the end, iPhone, Droid, they're all good phones (I own the iPhone and bought (later returned) the Droid. It was a tough choice to pick one over the other, it's that close in my opinion. But they all have their limitations. Neither platform is perfect, it's all down to preferences.
  12. Robchaos

    Robchaos Well-Known Member

    My understanding is they are slowly but surely working on a way to allow apps to install and run from the SD card. We just have to have patience I guess:(
  13. punkzanyj

    punkzanyj Android Expert

    Left behind who exactly? I'm not sure I want that answer...LOL

    Well, you'd still be limited by the iPhone. I don't know about their updates, but did they add new features? It seems to me if you want your iPhone updated you have to go to the store and buy a new one. Meanwhile google keeps churnng out new updates. Oh look-- now I can select multiple emails to delete/archive, oh look-- google lattitude, oh look--- a virtual keyboard, oh look-- I can select/copy & paste text from the browser. Oh look--- picasa upload support (now I can uninstall that app from the market), oh look a calendar widget, oh look live-folder support, oh look -- stereo bluetooth, oh look -- video recording software, oh look---a settings widget, oh look -- voice search, ---- ALL of those things came to Android as updates.

    I'm pretty sure the limitations on upgrades have a lot to do with carriers wanting their two cents into it before it's release to their customers.

    I'm not sure how apps limit it. Apps are all about customizing the phone so it works for you, your way. The open source nature means you can make apps that google's going to make, and maybe outdo them at their own game, apps like shopsavvy that let you use your camera as a barcode scanner. Every app commercial I see for the iPhone shows either the EXACT SAME app that's available for Android, or something that 3 other apps do on Android.
  14. ari-free

    ari-free Android Expert

    I don't get Apple. I saw some iPhone commercials during V and what were the apps they showed? Jamie Oliver. Some kind of tip calculator. The Sims. They should have used that commercial for Oprah because it's a real turn off for sci-fi/action fans watching V.
  15. mconigs78

    mconigs78 Member

    I like this comparrison. I remember when you had to pay to get on the internet through aol dial-up. Now you just click internet explorer or your choice of explorer and your on the internet no AOL or MSN to log into just to get online.
  16. ari-free

    ari-free Android Expert

    I remember the internet during the age of AOL. "What's this about archie and gopher and ugly grey websites? naa I'll just stick to the fun stuff on AOL."
  17. sergey

    sergey Android Enthusiast

    Like I said, all the platforms have their limitations. The iPhone's limitations are magnified x 10 because right now they are the top dog, enemy number 1. The iPhone platform does have its problems, and one of them is the culture at Apple. The total dominance Apple wants over the platform is good and bad, the bad being it very well could end up taking the same role it has in the PC market- a niche player.

    Android is hyped up as the next great thing, it's the new mobile hope so people don't really see the problems with the platform. Which is a bad thing- buy into the Android hype and you hurt the platform by not realizing what needs improving.

    Totally agree and my iPhone works for me, my way. I have apps for work that aren't on Android yet. I have games that I can play that aren't on Android yet. And this is the main reason why I returned the droid and kept the iPhone.

    I've said it before, and I'm gonna say it again: open source does not equal greatness and does not equal lousy product. It's just a means to an end.

    Between the two platforms, most apps are the same more or less- pdf readers, weather apps, tip calculators, NY times, pandora, flixster, banking apps, shopsaavy, etc.. With my droid I had most of the apps that were on my iPhone and had most of the functionality within a few minutes.

    So what differentiates Android vs. iPhone OS in terms of apps?

    IMO, Android has the better Google apps and widgets (which rock- terribly miss them). The iPhone has better 3rd party software, especially in games. This is where space counts- Doom resurrection, the EA sports games, etc. I'm sure these games can be easily ported over to Android except... how much memory the the droid have for apps? 256MB. These games run anywhere between 50-100MB. From my understanding, Google does not want apps on the SD card for security reasons. Fine. Um... HTC, Motorola? How about putting in like GBs of memory? Even if you are not a gamer, it still limits you. I have an few apps for work- 30MB, 20MB, 7MB, 3MB. That's 60MB, which then leaves me 196MB on a droid. Still plenty, but throw in a few games and... oooh... I'm done for.

    Android needs to beef up memory and its selection of apps. Do that and I'll switch. For now, I'm waiting on the sidelines. And I hate the task killer... it's annoying. Shouldn't Android manage that for me? The Droid is pretty sweet though, especially the screen. And I would have gotten a killer deal on the monthly fees- I have a verizon account on a family plan, and work nets me a 20% discount. Anyways, I'm loving the iPhone now and I'm looking forward to the next iPhone, the Xperia 10, and whetever is the pipeline. All this stuff is cool!
  18. shante1012

    shante1012 Well-Known Member

    whats the concern?
  19. ari-free

    ari-free Android Expert

    I think the android fans know its weaknesses. But they don't throw up their hands and say "oh what are we going to do?" They try to fix the problems themselves (such as developing android versions of favorite apps from other platforms or things like apps2sd) or try to get others to do it.
  20. Crude

    Crude Android Expert

    Apple doesn't bother me. But I'm sick of their kool aid drinking fan boys. Time will tell but I'm going to predict that apple has hurt att with their iphone. IF they leave att, att might as well fold. IF they don't they both might as well fold. Seems like a no brainer right? Well Verizon isn't going to give apple the cut they demand. So where else can apple go to increase coverage? Make their own network? Hardly.

    Regardless of functionality, apple is soon going to be asked to lay in the bed they made OR change. At that point, we'll discuss this again....
  21. Ainvar

    Ainvar Newbie

    I dont think Google or Apple is going to go anywhere first of.

    Secondly, Android is here to stay, I am concerned about the wide range of hardware they are going to have to support. But her Android is based off linux and they should be able to make a base kernel that is streamlined and use modules for the hardware support. They could make it a smart OS by saying hey I am using this phone so I need modules 1,2,3,7,8, and 23 and delete the rest based on hardware and say phone serial number range. Something really easy to do. No reason to make one huge monolithic kernel to support every phone. Cook up the latest version of Android send it out to the testers who have a wide range of the phone and have them install and test it. Push out to hardware vendor and carriers to make sure the 3rd party cruff is supported and then push it to the phones or allow the enduser to download it and install it. Simple and easy.

    Thirdly Apple OS has been 3-5 times longer than Android and has had time to mature and fix some of the mistakes, short comings, and issues they have run into with the limitation of ATT crappy network. Give Android/Google half that time and I am sure they will surpass most if not all of Apple and their iPhone. I am not a fan boy of either but if I had a choice of phones and network it would be Google Android on VZW which I am on now. Granted I would want VZW to be running LTE in this perfect world and me having an Android phone with LTE support.

    Last, Apps Schmappssss. Dont worry we will get to the 10,000 fart app marker is no time and be up there with Apple. Some of these apps in marketplace are awesome and others are well lets just say they are something someone put together to learn how to program poorly and hope to be great one day. We are getting there as a core OS and also as a open OS that can use any app that is made for it and to replace portions of the core OS that WE as a user does not like. Our only limitation is java. Too bad Android does not allow porting of linux apps ocer to the arch base and call it a day. But I know why they did not do it, I understand why they did not do it, but I still wish they would have done it.

    Now since I am spouted off enough in my post while running a fever, I really hope this all made since and it helps with this discussion. If not please ignore the delusional android user here and move on. Just place a few orange cones around me so I dont get run over.
  22. waremaster

    waremaster Well-Known Member

    I am not sure you get that on Android an application can have its data stored on the SDCard right now. A good example of this is Copilot Live which uses only 14 meg of internal storage and stores nearly 1.2 gig of data on the SDCard. All application developers have the option to write their application that way. Games need not be limited by the 256meg of storage. The executable can be small and call the data from the card. It is a simple process that application developers will use. I have used iPhone and sold mine and got the Droid and an Eris. I do like some of the applications on the iPhone platform and because of that I switched to a better network (Verizon) and purchased an iPod Touch so I can still have access to those applications I do like.
  23. BiGMERF

    BiGMERF Extreme Android User

    they both have there strengths but just one is stronger right now. hopefully android can be the microsoft and catch sony (apple). if not catchem atleast be on par
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