Zimmerman: Let's try this again...

[PrinceCorwin]

Our last GZ/TM thread got closed down due to us getting beside ourselves and getting overly critical of each other (even though I feel there was a distinct bias against the verdict supporters). So let's see if we can do this again without the animosity between us.

First issue: will Zimmy be brought up on civil rights violations?

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

No.

The FBI AND the Justice Department BOTH already interviewed Every court witness. They prepared and submitted final written reports that there was no racial animus [1] on Zim Mans part.
[1] Legal wordese for any racial element or ill will, hate (crime)

That fully KILLS the Civil Rights double jeopardy. (IMO)

I also think Florida's SYG law is fine too. First, this Wasn't a SYG case, it was a Self Defense case, TWO DIFFERENT things altogether. Gov. Scott already had the FDLE investigate the Zimmy case for ANY Possible Needed changes to the SYG law. The FDLE long ago (last year) said no changes to the law were needed.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[AntimonyER]

The discussion on this topic was ended by Mods. In the future please PM the closing Mod, report their post, or use our Private Chat with Mod section to discuss reopening a topic in here. As it is I am locking this temporarily so the Mods can discuss whether it can continue. See below

Thanks for understanding.

 

[EarlyMon]

The intent here is stated up front - attack the issue, not each other and there is certainly an issue on the table.

Sounds good to us mods.

Sorry if it seems that we favor one group over another.

That's often the case and I often hear that from both sides of a given issue on a lock.

Mods operate under Admin rules - any bias, leave it for a mod without one.

Drop me a line to chat further and remember that as our valued members it's your right to take any mod grievances right up the chain to Phases. Any mod not liking that doesn't need to be a mod.

Enjoy your thread and - everyone - get as heated as you like, it's the PCA, just please respect each other.

You don't have to like the other guy's ideas and you don't have to like the other guy.

But if you're not willing to defend his right to his opinion, this is the wrong forum for you.

Our last GZ/TM thread got closed down due to us getting beside ourselves and getting overly critical of each other (even though I feel there was a distinct bias against the verdict supporters). So let's see if we can do this again without the animosity between us.

First issue: will Zimmy be brought up on civil rights violations?

 

[PrinceCorwin]

@mods...Thanks for being so understanding.

Now let's get back to it.
I think charges will be brought and he will again be exonerated.

 

[JohnLaird]

I admit I'm a little weak on Federal vs State law...but I remember it being said that being tried in both state AND federal court is NOT double jeopardy. Obviously the prosecution failed at the state level...but what is stopping the federal government from bringing charges against Zimmerman and starting the process all over again?

 

[rabidhunter]

Just a couple of thoughts here. One, there are no winners in this case. GZ didn't win, he must live with the fact that wheither provoked or not, he took the life of a 17 year old, but on the flip side, TM was not a poster child hero either with a history of drug use and violence.

The American justice system relies on presumed innocense. The full weight and burden of proof is on the prosectution to prove guilt.

The media at large needs to take a look at the mirror. While sensationalism sells, it often misrepresents the facts. Freedom of press is an important right and is fundamental to freedom; however, that right can be misused and is. Rather than reporting facts and truth which inform and enlighten, media sensationalism hinders truth and legal proceedings and entertains. Entertainment is not the primary function of the press.

We need to have honest and open discussion in regards to racial relations, and I'm not talking about blame the white man stuff. I'm talking lay everything out on the table. Not every crime committed against someone of a different race by someone of another race is racist, other motives are greed and power.

But we also need to discuss, what drives racism? The black community needs to discuss what things are giving their race a bad image. In my community, people with darker skin tone tend to crank up loud profaine misogynistic music in their cars. They tend to be loud and intimidating, for example, one time I was driving past a neighborhood where my bride used to live, she was pointing out a house where a friend used to live. There was this guy there with darker skin color on the porch who began to yell at us. Then there's the gang stuff and the pants on the ground stuff. This is not doing the black community any favors.

Now are all black people loud and threatening? No, I have several good friends who are black. And I happen to like rap music, I just don't like listening to filth.

We all have to look at ourselves and ask, how are we adding to the problem no matter what your skin color is. We all need to focus on the things that make us united, rather than the things that divide.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Here's why that will never happen Rabid.

It's called Self Responsibility.

That will NEVER work for the Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's and the dumb masses they incite.

That would require them to look Within their Own race and fix Their Own issues. They Won't Do That cause There's No Money In That For Them. There's only a payday for Them when they can hold the rest of society hostage for "their people being oppressed".

You can't race bait your Own race near as easily as you can all the others. They aren't helped in the least by their own President who wants to make EVERYTHING EVERYBODY ELSE'S fault than the person who's it really is.

There won't be any REAL racial dialogue because that's Not to the Advantage of those Black Leaders driving the issues.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[EarlyMon]

I thought that you all wanted to discuss whether civil charges could be brought?

Discussing race relations rarely turns out well.

America is a mighty big place. For every example there's going to be someone with a counter-example. In my neighborhood, the lighter skinned kids are no different. Does that prove anything? Nope. But it illustrates my point that things can take a left turn instantly.

Please just proceed with caution.

 

[PrinceCorwin]

I thought that you all wanted to discuss whether civil charges could be brought?

Discussing race relations rarely turns out well.

America is a mighty big place. For every example there's going to be someone with a counter-example. In my neighborhood, the lighter skinned kids are no different. Does that prove anything? Nope. But it illustrates my point that things can take a left turn instantly.

Please just proceed with caution.

That is what we want to discuss. but you can't deny that this case is based primarily up on race relations. race relations is the only reason It ever went to trial in the first place. and it may be the only reason it either does or does not go to trial for civil rights violations.

True, discussing it goes bad sometimes but NOT discussing it is ALWAYS bad

 

[EarlyMon]

Not muzzling anyone.

Just saying from experience - watch out for rocks below the waterline, these are tricky waters.

If you know what I mean.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

but what is stopping the federal government from bringing charges against Zimmerman and starting the process all over again?

Read post #2.

THAT's why.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[copestag]

the likelyhood of them charging him anyway is probably 50/50...... this regime is eager to save face on the issue..... theyve already ordered all evidence in the case be held.. citing an active investigation....... which means GZ will not be getting his gun returned to him until 2017 at the earliest

their theory is if you dig deep enough everyone has something to hide..... theyll find a reason to put him in jail before its over

 

[PrinceCorwin]

the likelyhood of them charging him anyway is probably 50/50...... this regime is eager to save face on the issue..... theyve already ordered all evidence in the case be held.. citing an active investigation....... which means GZ will not be getting his gun returned to him until 2017 at the earliest

their theory is if you dig deep enough everyone has something to hide..... theyll find a reason to put him in jail before its over

I tend to agree

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

At least relative to Zimmy's gun I don't think you've heard the last of this sports fans.

I am waiting for there to be some push back on this from our Governor.

As soon as the gavel went down, that gun legally belongs to Zimmy. Period. UNTIL there are federal charges on him. They government has no more right to hold Zimmy's gun than they do to come see me, tell me they suspect me of a federal crime and try and take MY Keltec.

Now, yes, I can certainly see the State holding the evidence for the feds as a professional courtesy but NOT property that no longer "belongs" to them.

I tell you what. I'm going to try and "fix" this.

Zimmy has given Kel-tec A LOT of publicity. The KT factory is just over in Cocoa. I think I'll see if I can get KT to maybe give Zimmy a factory tour and a new PF-9 on the house.

[EDIT] Here's KT's Faceplant https://www.facebook.com/KelTecWeapons?ref=br_tf

And the thread I started on the Kel-tec Owner's Group.
http://www.thektog.org/forum/f97/kel-tec-should-give-you-know-who-new-pf-9-a-257370/

Just in case anyone else feels froggy.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[PrinceCorwin]

Anyone still keeping up with this that still thinks there's no way more charges will be brought?

Again I reiterate... Setup.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Nope. Still no on any Feddy charges.

Gov. Scott sent the SYG protesters on their merry way too.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[PrinceCorwin]

Wow, what a speech by Obama! He says that running away from an attack instead of defending ourselves would promote peace?! So we are supposed to allow criminals to PEACEFULLY perpetrate their criminal exploits? What a joke!

And I just LOVE the analogy about if GZ had been black and TM was white. The only difference would have been that after the acquittal, there would have been rejoicing in the streets instead of a violent outcry for peace. Racial leaders of all sorts are actually just racist leaders hiding in plain sight. IMO

Definitely seeing more charges possible. People falling for this hook, line, and sinker.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

You missed The Best part.

A YEAR ago, according to our President, his SON could have been Trayvon.

Yesterday it was, "35 years ago, **I** could have been Trayvon."

Oh Really?

Man I sure thought I knew A LOT about Obama, I sure DID NOT KNOW;

-That on his way to Harvard, he was a dope smoking HS student who got suspended multiple times, once for bringing weed TO school?
-That Obama had snapshoots of him posing with stolen jewelry
-That Obama had snapshots of his pot plants and him smoking weed.
-That Obama wanted to buy a pistol when he was 17 (Would that have made him our first FELON President?) and had a snapshot of the one he was GOING to buy?
-Please oh Please oh Please, let me see those long hidden snapshots of Obama doing the double bird shooting gang poses!

WOW. If I missed ALL that about our President, then he's even worse than I already knew he was.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[SiempreTuna]

(Would that have made him our first FELON President?)

Err .. no. Not by a very, very long chalk - given you're not considering actual convictions. For example:

Bush II - ruled a felon by Chief Judge Vaughn Walker of the US District Court. Prior to becoming president, arrested for theft, disorderly conduct and DUI. All small fry compared to his war crimes in office, of course.

Clinton - draft dodging (should also apply to Bush II but he had a rich daddy who could fix things for him)

Bush I - Iran Contra

Reagan - Iran Contra

And then, going back even further, there was Nixon - remember that crook?

 

[zuben el genub]

I don't like the precedent about a HOA hiring a vigilante-minded security person.

While not race - years ago we were profiled and watched for being the only "long-hairs" in the neighborhood. Cops kept us under surveillance thinking we were breaking into the parking meters. I sat out on the front porch at 2A since it was hot and humid in the apt. and a cop tried to accuse me of prostitution.

Moved to CO, in the foothills, and one comment was "dirty hippies, use up all the water taking gang showers" Excuse me? (Our town ran out of water frequently.)

This current town had to set up an office to deal with with HOA problems. One blade of grass out of place and the HOA would try to condemn your property or set such horrific fines, you'd leave. Give some idiots a little authority and lot behave like they are gods and have control over your house, car (parking issues) and in some cases, friends. If you have a friend who is a Sikh, here come the anti Muslim signs and protests.

I'm an amateur astronomer, photographer and birdwatcher. I wouldn't want some appointed nutcase from an HOA following me around to see if I was a peeping tom or casing houses for burglary since I walk a lot.

Our HOA disappeared since no one wanted the job.

 

[trackball]

I feel Obama's comments about HIM being Travyon are highly irresponsible and counterproductive to the discussion of racial equality. I do applaud him for mentioning that there is a reason for blacks being profiled because of the disproportionate amount of crime committed by the black community, but this will get overlooked and lost (like it does every time).

Obama shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place, but since he did he should be be trying to UNITE Americans, not divide. Leave that BS to the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons. This kind of behavior make me dislike Obama more and more. It's my guess his true purpose with these statements is below the surface (because transparency is so important to him lol), since no American President with this country's best interests at heart would say something so clearly designed to cause controversy and tension. He is either that DUMB to not recognize this, or this was a premeditated malicious act against something (gun owners, SYG laws, Half-Peruvians, whatever).

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Thank god they made one Major error that I see.

They released the FBI and Justice department findings last year saying there was no racial animus on Zimmy's part.

That was actually a pretty stupid move IMO.

There was no reason for those reports to come out then. If anything, that's probably NOT information you'd want public if you wanted prospective jurors on Martin's side. The trial still had to happen and would have no matter what was in the reports. Everyone "knows" government reports takes forever, no reason they had to rush them out then.

But our well oiled ***mode deleted*** of a Justice department went ahead and released them anyway. Morons.

Now they can't Rewrite the reports they've already made public whereas the Could Have made reports Say Anything they wanted IF they'd not made them public.

Eedeeits.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[OutofDate1980]

"...Gov. Scott already had the FDLE investigate the Zimmy case for ANY Possible Needed changes to the SYG law. The FDLE long ago (last year) said no changes to the law were needed.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Well Gov. Rick Scott knows investigations, he took the Fifth 75 times during the investigation of massive fraud by Columbia/HCA Health while he was CEO.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

What, is simply invoking one's rights a Crime now too?

Seems that same right applies to both YOU and ME too and frankly I'm very happy it does.

Similar thing as I'd say to all these "got to change or make go away this SYG foolishness" people. THAT SYG law PROTECTS YOU TOO if you aren't a thug who's Committing a Crime at the same time you NEED it's protection.

Someone who invokes their own rights 75 TIMES is EXACTLY the person I want watching over MY rights.

Bruce in