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Apple trying to get S3 banned

I still love Apples products (the ones I can afford anyway) but lawsuit after lawsuit is driving me to despise the company.

Anyone can guess that S voice (should have named it Samsung Voice just to make it less obvious) is an imitation of Siri.

Except that vlingo (which is S Voice is based on) existed before Siri..
Even that wasn't the first voice control software.

I agree with your comment about Apple being behind the curve. I reckon the big selling point will be the maps stuff, which google have well in hand I think.
Seeing lots of iphoners moving to the S3..
 
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You may think that there would be "potential" lost sales, but in reality many of us iPhone users just got tired of the same OS (hasn't changed much in 5 years), got tired of playing cat and mouse with Apple over jailbreaking, don't believe the iPhone is the best phone any more or all of the above (my personal feeling). This is why there have been so many Android phone posts on Macrumors in the last few month.

And if the rumors and pics about the iPhone 5 are true (stretching the phone to reach 4", but not widening), then I think we may see even more converts. Those pics make the ip5 look god aweful.

I still like the ipad and Mac computers, but I will personally never buy another iphone. Besides, the S3 is the top of the foodchain, and I doubt that will change any time soon. The HOX doesn't match the S3 because of the missing hardware (sd card and no changeable battery).

I just meant that's what apple said was the reason( all the potential damage that would be done) is what they said.
 
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I like Apple products too, I just despair of their small steps approach with everything.


The thing with Apple is they sure know how to HYPE things and sadly people just suck it up. I can say this as "I" was one of them. Had the 1st iPhone, 2nd, 3rd, 4S, iPad and now in hindsight I was sucked up in the hype.

I remember buying the original iPhone and it had no MMS even though the cheapest phone had it for years and years. When Apple released an upgrade to include MMS, the feature every other phone has had for years, people acted like they invented the wheel. Same with a lot of other simple features other phones had for years.
 
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The thing with Apple is they sure know how to HYPE things and sadly people just suck it up. I can say this as "I" was one of them. Had the 1st iPhone, 2nd, 3rd, 4S, iPad and now in hindsight I was sucked up in the hype.

I remember buying the original iPhone and it had no MMS even though the cheapest phone had it for years and years. When Apple released an upgrade to include MMS, the feature every other phone has had for years, people acted like they invented the wheel. Same with a lot of other simple features other phones had for years.

I got the original iPhone too, and it was damned expensive..
 
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I am really beginning to think Apple has the USPTO in it's back pocket. Siri was not new or revolutionary in any way, shape or form, just the next-in-line of an already existing product. The same can be said for many of their patents but as has been said here numerous times, if Apple releases it the iSheep act as if Apple has pulled magically from nowhere a revolutionary idea that never existed before and I am getting sick of it.

There are Apple products I like, I just can't bring myself to own them because of the completely anti-fair market practices of the company. You have a patent on something you license it to those who want to use it, not use it as a hammer to kill all competition. That is a sign of a company (more precisely Steve Jobs) knowing their product can't compete on a level playing field.

I have rarely had the view that the government needs to intervene in a companies actions or policies but somebody is going to have to put Apple in check and sadly I don't think it will be their competitors unless there is a complete reversal of opinion in the courts. There have been successes against Apple and Posner's recent decision is a welcome sight but all this seems to do is fuel Apples fire.

I think there should have been a trademark infringement claim made years ago by the Beatles when they had the chance, John and Paul didn't think it was worth the trouble to pursue the little company that started using something extremely similar to Apple Records logo. The history of theft dates all the way to the beginning with Apple.
 
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I still love Apples products (the ones I can afford anyway) but lawsuit after lawsuit is driving me to despise the company.

Anyone can guess that S voice (should have named it Samsung Voice just to make it less obvious) is an imitation of Siri.

Just remember how obvious Apples notifications was a rip off from Android.I can't recall if Google sued for that or not, but these latest lawsuits seem all fear based. Apple knows they are more behind the curve now than ever and HTC & Samsung may have made devices that will have Apple fans wondering if Apples next iPhone will be "the Android killer".

Google applied for a patent for that pull down notification so if they get it I could see them really going after apple if for nothing else to get apple to quit with all the B.S lawsuits against Google's partners. Apple isn't going after google which the patents they are suing Samsung and htc for are key parts of android because they know they can't win especially against Google.
 
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Apple isn't going after google which the patents they are suing Samsung and htc for are key parts of android because they know they can't win especially against Google.

I highly doubt Apple is afraid of Google. Apple could buy Google if they so desired. Hell, just their phone division is more profitable.

Apple doesn't go after Google because there is no point. Google isn't an oem manufacturer and Android is software, that is open source. How is Apple going to prove they have lost sales because of a freely distributed OS? You go after the manufacturers and make it unprofitable or so time consuming to alter their ui around patents that they stop using Android and switch to an altrnative. This is how you kill Android as a competitor.
 
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The voice feature has been alive way before Siri on Android in many forms. Wether it was Google voice or the many versions in the App market. Now we all no Apple is rumor to be creating their own navigation system and getting rid of Google. Siri was just the stepping stone to catch everyone eyes and to get a search engine going to compete with Google. Apple is going to have a harder time battling Samsung. Samsung know what they are doing and have a strong patent portfolio. It's no accident the Galaxy S sell just as much as the iphone or more.
 
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The S voice type feature has obviously been alive on Android before Siri, there is still a voice control feature on regular iPhone's that's been there for a while, it's just that Samsung has brought the S voice as a marketing gimmick to the forefront to compete with the iPhone.

Android has so many advantages over the iPhone I think they could have been a little more innovative pointing out various strengths that the Galaxy has without tempting sue happy Apple.
 
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I'm not necessarily saying that two people would invent something simultaneously; what if I came up with the idea years after the patent holders' product was already on the market? Do I then need to search a patent database to see if any of the features are already in use?

But then they haven't really invented anything, have they? I'll make an analogy to copyright law. George Harrison got sued for ripping of an old song by the Chiffons. George Harrison swore in court that he had never heard the song he was being accused of infringing. The court still found him guilty of infringement, using the logic that he likely heard the song and didn't remember, but was still unconsciously influenced by it.

I can tell you that all the inventors I have worked with know exactly what their competition is and has worked on. That is part of their job. Odds are that even if they don't remember that something else has been invented in their field, they probably knew at one point...and then there is likely no real invention.

And many companies employ "search firms" whose sole job is to search existing patents to check for infringement before a product is released.

Back on topic; I don't have a problem with apple suing over people using its patents, but it does seem to be the only company furiously trying to get competing products banned. It would surely be in the interests of the consumer and the spirit of competition to seek damages, not get the product banned completely.

It may be that other companies do this but don't get media attention, I don't know.

Just before the Apple-Samsung suits started the first time one of the android sites did a big chart of who was suing who for patent infringement, I think it might have been Phandroid. Pretty much every tech company is suing every other one. And they all try to get the other product banned as it gives them leverage in the Settlement.

It should be noted that the Supreme Court recently ruled that bans should be a last resort (I believe it was eBay v. MercExchange for anyone interested).
 
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As I have said before, I have voice command since the Windows Mobile phones. It is nothing new and Apple did not invent such feature. Also, Vlingo for Android exists before Apple introduced Siri. So who is copying who?

If Apple is so proud of their UI, why are they copying Android's pull down notification screen? The iPhone did not have that until Apple saw it on the Android phones.

This outright ban is simply a continuation of Steve Jobs' Thermonuclear War strategy as the new CEO cannot establish his own. ;)
 
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Methods maybe, but not actions, you can't patent a physical human gesture or action. And as I said, "originally", as you point out there was a later decision instituting software patents.

Well, except that when the Supreme Court stated that software was patentable subject matter, they were saying that it has always been patentable subject matter. It is just that the PTO had been impropperly denying patents on software.

You are confusing things here by mixing definitions. Actions, as in the act of using a chemical product in a manner not previously used to elicit a different outcome is not the same as using a finger gesture to switch between screens or to slide a lock screen. Apple claims it's patent on "slide to unlock" applies to the action itself and no other manufacturer can use any form of "slide to unlock", as was their claim in the denied "finger swipe to move between screens". This has been the basis of some of their legal claims.
I guess I don't understand your distinction. If the patent was for performing actions on a touchscreen, why wouldn't the finger gesture be covered? I'm sure with 15 minutes at my office computer I could dig up many touchscreen patents that claim the act of touching the screen and doing something. Everyone of those patent holders would asert the same thing.
BTW, here is claim 1 from the slide to unlock patent:
1. A method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device, the device including a touch-sensitive display, the method comprising:
detecting a contact with the touch-sensitive display at a first predefined location corresponding to an unlock image;
continuously moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with movement of the contact while continuous contact with the touch screen is maintained, wherein the unlock image is a graphical, interactive user-interface object with which a user interacts in order to unlock the device; and
unlocking the hand-held electronic device if the moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display results in movement of the unlock image from the first predefined location to a predefined unlock region on the touch-sensitive display.
So if you notice, this actually requires quite a bit more than just slide to unlock. There have to be predefined postions, continious contact, and an accompanying graphical object. All of these (plus everything else claimed) are required to be present for Apple to prevail on an infringement claim. Either, the other technology has it or it doesn't.
And of course Apple's team of lawyers will act like the patent claims are way broader and Samnsung's lawyers will act like it doesn't cover anything. That is what litigation is all about. They are posturing, hoping to meet somewhere in the middle.
Nor did I say they covered all digital assistants, once again this is a case of Apple claiming they do and claiming that the physical action of using one is their patented invention. Apple has a history of copying a product or program and marketing it as their own invention, as evidenced by some of Steve Jobs own comments in his biography.
See above, that is what all litigating attornies do. It is called "puffery."
While not a written code it is something I have heard from the mouths of several patent attorneys on numerous occasions. This may be an example of the patent attorney equivalent of an "ambulance chasers" tactic. So I will defer to you on this.
In this case, I'd wager that it is just bragging about what good patent attorneys they are.
This is something I have always found objectionable. If a patent exists for an item, say a self-sealing drain stopper and here comes somebody else that adds a handle to it that should not be patentable but in many cases it is allowed. Yes if you change the intended use of an item, make that self-sealing drain stopper a plugging unit for off-shore oil platforms you have shifted intent and any improvements made for that purpose add to the uniqueness of the item.
Under the letter of the law, the improvement must still be new, novel, and non-obvious. So, for example, if the aforementioned handle is made out of some material that no one thought you could make it out of, then it should be allowed. If the improvement is obvious, such as changing from black material to brown material, it should be rejected.
I may be in error on this, I am going on old information where people found public domain items that had never been patented, filed for and received a patent. I would hope this would not have been allowed to continue.
Once again, this is a statement I have heard from patent attorneys.
This is, and has been since at least the enaction of the 1951 code, been illegal if the information was in the US or certain other countries' public domain. The only countries that didn't apply were ones like North Korea. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but it shouldn't have if it did.
Much of what was said was a condemnation of Apples practices but I feel there is a major renovation needed at the USPTO.

Thanks for the discourse, I am enjoying it greatly.
That's a political issue that I will leave alone. As a side note, if you are interested in the patent system, I would recommend checking out the blog Patently O. He discusses some really interesting things in the patent world.
 
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Well, except that when the Supreme Court stated that software was patentable subject matter, they were saying that it has always been patentable subject matter. It is just that the PTO had been impropperly denying patents on software.

Thanks for clarifying.


I guess I don't understand your distinction. If the patent was for performing actions on a touchscreen, why wouldn't the finger gesture be covered? I'm sure with 15 minutes at my office computer I could dig up many touchscreen patents that claim the act of touching the screen and doing something. Everyone of those patent holders would asert the same thing.
BTW, here is claim 1 from the slide to unlock patent:
1. A method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device, the device including a touch-sensitive display, the method comprising:
detecting a contact with the touch-sensitive display at a first predefined location corresponding to an unlock image;
continuously moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with movement of the contact while continuous contact with the touch screen is maintained, wherein the unlock image is a graphical, interactive user-interface object with which a user interacts in order to unlock the device; and
unlocking the hand-held electronic device if the moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display results in movement of the unlock image from the first predefined location to a predefined unlock region on the touch-sensitive display.
So if you notice, this actually requires quite a bit more than just slide to unlock. There have to be predefined postions, continious contact, and an accompanying graphical object. All of these (plus everything else claimed) are required to be present for Apple to prevail on an infringement claim. Either, the other technology has it or it doesn't.
And of course Apple's team of lawyers will act like the patent claims are way broader and Samnsung's lawyers will act like it doesn't cover anything. That is what litigation is all about. They are posturing, hoping to meet somewhere in the middle.

Thank you for including the qualifying documentation on the Apple patent. As you stated Apple will claim it is all inclusive, Samsung will claim exactly the opposite. However, it has been my understanding that physical actions are not patentable, i.e. you can't get a patent for a refrigerator that you open the door by pulling a handle. You can get a design patent for the handle or if there is a unique locking mechanism a mechanical patent but the mere action of "pulling to open" is not patentable.

To extend patent protection to finger gestures on a touch screen goes completely against this. You can patent the software code that enables the given results but the gesture itself is not allowable. And if this is something that is being allowed it is another example of the patent system being broken.

See above, that is what all litigating attornies do. It is called "puffery."

I am very familiar with that term, I come from a family of attorneys!:D

In this case, I'd wager that it is just bragging about what good patent attorneys they are.

Another good explanation, probably somewhere between yours and mine.

Under the letter of the law, the improvement must still be new, novel, and non-obvious. So, for example, if the aforementioned handle is made out of some material that no one thought you could make it out of, then it should be allowed. If the improvement is obvious, such as changing from black material to brown material, it should be rejected.

As it should be but I have seen examples that should have been rejected.

This is, and has been since at least the enaction of the 1951 code, been illegal if the information was in the US or certain other countries' public domain. The only countries that didn't apply were ones like North Korea. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but it shouldn't have if it did.

I am in agreement here, things happen that should not.

That's a political issue that I will leave alone. As a side note, if you are interested in the patent system, I would recommend checking out the blog Patently O. He discusses some really interesting things in the patent world.

Thanks, I will definitely check it out.
 
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From FOSS patents...

"For Samsung it's definitely a win that it can go ahead and launch the S III in the United States. Apple's attempt to block it even provided some additional publicity, though pre-orders for the S III were huge anyway. It looks like the S III will be wildly successful all over the world. While Apple continues to innovate, it will really need the iPhone 5 to keep Samsung in check. But if Apple wins a preliminary injunction against the Nexus over patents that the S III implements in more or less the same manner, things could fall into place rather quickly. Also, if Apple enforces any patents against older Samsung products at the summer trial, it can then ask for quick decisions against the S III with respect to the prevailing patents. And the situation in the U.S. may lead Apple to file a number of lawsuits against the S III in some other jurisdictions."
 
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