Boot Android over WAN?

[hsuanyeh]

I am new to Android. However, I am thinking whether anyone has configured Android in a network storage (e.g., in iSCSI target, in FTP/HTTP server, etc.), such that a mobile device can be booted into Android over the network?

Adroid devices are supposed to be network ready at all times. In particular, LTE is so fast that makes me think whether local installation of OS is still necessary. I believe that cloud boot Android would be a feasible future design option. Any thoughts and/or comments?

 

[AndroidSPCS]

Welcome to Android Forums!!

Android is based on Linux, and Linux can be remotely booted. I have not heard of Android being used this way, but I would be very curious if it could!

 

[hsuanyeh]

I know iPXE (ipxe.org) can load and boot various Linux distros. If someone can add a network driver for Android devices in iPXE, I believe this is doable. One advantage for booting over WAN that I can think of is the convenience of OS upgrade. Users can simply reboot and voila new OS is up and running. Another advantage is that users can save some strorage space for data rather than for OS. I know booting over WAN may take longer than local installatipn, but I seem to reboot my mobile device once or twice a year. So if the OS is robust enough, there is in principle no need to reboot, isn't it?

 

[A.Nonymous]

You're considering using your phone as a NAS? Is that the application you're wanting here and that's why you're wanting to boot it remotely?

 

[John Redcorn]

You're considering using your phone as a NAS? Is that the application you're wanting here and that's why you're wanting to boot it remotely?

He means no OS actually on the phone's permanent storage. Would get loaded into ram on powerup over the air.

Would be something like the carrier having a server that has rom images for all their different phones, when you power on the phone it would boot the os over network from that server. If an OS upgrade needed to be done on a particular model phone, the carrier would replace that model's rom image on the server and the next time you reboot the phone you're running a new rom image.

I don't know that I like the idea. fast data isn't everywhere, it will be close to everywhere some day but if you're powered off in a location without fast data (or without data at all) and need to make an emergency call that kinda stops you. Unless the phone did have some type of local load of a failsafe basic dumbphone/dialer/make calls only thing.

Also it would kinda suck if you upgrade to the next newest phone and want to use your old pxe phone as a throw-around mp3 player/camera/video player etc. Couldn't boot if you're not activated anymore unless it would boot over wifi->internet->manufacturer server instead of mobile network->carrier server. And even then you'd have to make sure you powered it up somewhere with wifi.

The advantage of more storage space since you're not storing an OS...I don't know that you're thinking of that the same way I am. Flash storage is cheap, we're not getting big amounts of storage because it would be expensive, we're not getting it because they want to build in some planned obsolescence. (be grateful the oems didn't take another page from Apple's book and not give us sd slots or replaceable batteries or force old devices to run slow by way of bloated os updates)

 

[hsuanyeh]

He means no OS actually on the phone's permanent storage. Would get loaded into ram on powerup over the air.

Would be something like the carrier having a server that has rom images for all their different phones, when you power on the phone it would boot the os over network from that server. If an OS upgrade needed to be done on a particular model phone, the carrier would replace that model's rom image on the server and the next time you reboot the phone you're running a new rom image.

I don't know that I like the idea. fast data isn't everywhere, it will be close to everywhere some day but if you're powered off in a location without fast data (or without data at all) and need to make an emergency call that kinda stops you. Unless the phone did have some type of local load of a failsafe basic dumbphone/dialer/make calls only thing.

Also it would kinda suck if you upgrade to the next newest phone and want to use your old pxe phone as a throw-around mp3 player/camera/video player etc. Couldn't boot if you're not activated anymore unless it would boot over wifi->internet->manufacturer server instead of mobile network->carrier server. And even then you'd have to make sure you powered it up somewhere with wifi.

The advantage of more storage space since you're not storing an OS...I dont' know that you're thinking of that the same way I am. Flash storage is cheap, we're not getting big amounts of storage because it would be expensive, we're not getting it because they want to build in some planned obsolescence. (be grateful the oems didn't take another page from Apple's book and not give us sd slots or replaceable batteries or force old devices to run slow by way of bloated os updates)

Thanks for your comments! Basically, there's get-around for the issues you raised. It's only a matter of whether the get-around is worth the benefit or not.

For example, the OS can be configured to automatically hibernate in the event of low power. Also, as you pointed, emergency calls can be made without a full-blown OS.

In principle, if the entire OS image is streamed to the device and always hibernated at low power, I don't see why an old pxe phone cannot be a throw-around mp3 player/camera/video player even without phone system provider. Also, what's wrong with Wifi -> Internet -> Manufacturer server, if OS services are paid for? There would always be companies willing to support your hardware, if you pay a small monthly fee for their OS hosting...

 

[John Redcorn]

Also, what's wrong with Wifi -> Internet -> Manufacturer server, if OS services are paid for? There would always be companies willing to support your hardware, if you pay a small monthly fee for their OS hosting...

I dunno, it might be something you just want to keep in your car and use every few months or something, I wouldn't want to pay for that.

I don't get how hibernate mode would help all that much since eventually a "retired" throwaround device is going to lose the hibernate data when the battery empties, you'll have to think ahead and charge/boot at a wifi spot

Also you might have some app, service or system service that acts up bad enough you need to do a complete reboot and you'd have to be near wifi.

 

[hsuanyeh]

I don't get how hibernate mode would help all that much since eventually a "retired" throwaround device is going to lose the hibernate data when the battery empties, you'll have to think ahead and charge/boot at a wifi spot

By hibernate, I mean freezing dynamic data in RAM and store it to a non-volatile device. This would have no issue even if battery goes completely empty.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I understand the concept now and appreciate the explanation. I'm not sure of the application though. What is the benefit of streaming an OS over the air to a device?

 

[hsuanyeh]

Possible Advantages:
1. Hassle free OS upgrade.
2. Virus/malware screening by professional service provider.
3. Jailbreak prevention.
4. Copyright license control.
5. Easily combinable with Application store--one account, one bill.
6. Utilitybiz model for OS/apps (pay OS/apps per month using OS account).
7. No direct patent infringement on the part of device manufacturer.
8. Stolen devices will be useless (crime prevention).
9. Etc. Etc.

5.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Possible Advantages:
1. Hassle free OS upgrade.
2. Virus/malware screening by professional service provider.
3. Jailbreak prevention.
4. Copyright license control.
5. Easily combinable with Application store--one account, one bill.
6. Utilitybiz model for OS/apps (pay OS/apps per month using OS account).
7. No direct patent infringement on the part of device manufacturer.
8. Stolen devices will be useless (crime prevention).
9. Etc. Etc.

All good reasons I had honestly not thought about. I think 2 is bogus on mobile devices at least at this point. 1 is questionable, but 3-6 are completely and totally legit and awesome reasons as well as 8. I would think the OEM could still be sued under 7 as they'd still be providing the OS unless it was a 3rd party providing it in which case the 3rd party could still be sued.

 

[hsuanyeh]

All good reasons I had honestly not thought about. I think 2 is bogus on mobile devices at least at this point. 1 is questionable, but 3-6 are completely and totally legit and awesome reasons as well as 8. I would think the OEM could still be sued under 7 as they'd still be providing the OS unless it was a 3rd party providing it in which case the 3rd party could still be sued.

Regarding 7, it would be ideal if a 3rd party can provide such services. This way, even if the 3rd party is sued, the damage award would be largely reduced (inspired by a recent law suit between Apple and HTC).

Plus, if device manufacturer allows two or more choices of OSes to boot from, wouldn't it be the users who choose the allegedly infringing OS? No patent holders would sue end users individually... Nonetheless, this part of the discussion is for lawyers, not for Android developers.

 

[bfenigsohn]

I'm interested in this topic from a perspective of remotely booting android from the phone onto a laptop via a LAN on the tether/hotspot ability. Basically connect the laptop to the Android hotspot, then remotely boot android onto the laptop through some sort of tunneling. I can't seem to find anyone who has done something like this aside from the likes of AirDroid and pplconnect but it would be nice to use Android apps on a laptop like some sort of routerless OS streaming

 

[Hadron]

I could imagine an app which let you mirror the phone's display that way. But you certainly couldn't actually run Android on your laptop like that - a build of Android which would run on the laptop would be very different from the one on the phone, because the hardware is completely different.

You can't stream an OS, and if you emulated or virtualised it then it would be independent of the phone.

 

[bfenigsohn]

perhaps mirroring the display then, as long as full functionality and look is retained. I would also like to do this through the tether to the laptop, using the phone's data connection to connect to the internet through the phone on the laptop, obviously foregoing any router involvement. is this feasable?

 

[Joelgp83]

I cannot possibly see why ANY Android enthusiast would want this idea, on the basis that it prevents root. Sorry, I determine what gets run on my hardware and at what speed, if necessary, NOT THE CARRIER!

 

[Frank Peng]

Android is going to occupy desktop now because it has so many applications. Booting Android from iSCSI has huge benefit and it will be a must later because the storage management cost. Assuming a manufacturing plant has 1000 Android devices, it is impossible to manage 1000 SD cards other than to manage one server in the computer room. The problem is that Android never planned this. The kernel is unable to implement iSCSI which requires DBM database and all kind of standard C libraries. Android has its own libraries, named bionic. Android x86 now is going to this direction. They have busybox installed in the kernel. Next will be gcc? A standard Linux? We will see.

 

[Deleted User]

In my opinion i dont think google will let you do that even if they did let you you had yo use an app to temporarily use the remote server to run the same android version or higher os, however temporaily disabling some android os features but keeping sone running for the phone to run , as well the binary of your phone is programed to boot of flash witch is a rom chip that it boots off of

 

[frosthax1]

that would go against the law if they did something to prevent possibility of modifications kiddo lol,not many would be for this as rooting is totally legal and free rights.we had to fight to get that one in the lawbooks.george geohotz with apple made it legal to do whatever you wish with your devices as far as modifyings concerned.most new phones btw have enough storage space and if not mods help you obtain the storage you need even on a ghetto phone.im sorry its an interesting concept but this is invalid will not fly

 

[Deleted User]

Its not illeagal to do it, tgey just dnt want u to

 

[EarlyMon]

The easy way, if you're rooted, to get your phone display and control on your laptop -

Check out "droid VNC server"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.onaips.vnc

You're not going to boot up binary code using the ARM instruction set on a PC using the Intel instruction set. Not without an emulator and whole development environment. Forget it. Laws and they don't want you have nothing to do with it.

As far as including it as part of tethering - no. It's a phone, not a spaceship and the hardware can only do so much.

Without a router? Maybe. Maybe.

If the phone wifi supports point to point, sometimes called direct DLNA, maybe you can.

VNC in a normal wifi network is very cool - and you don't need the wifi router to connect to the outside world.

Set it up on your phone, put a client on your pc, boom, done - your Android phone, fully functional, on your pc desktop.

Hope this helps.