Root [International] Knox Security & locked bootloader on new firmwares

[Straydog]

I am not of English mother tongue. Neither are Koreans, but it seems clear that KNOX WARRANTY VOID cannot be the same as the shorter WARRANTY VOID. I did read about voiding the warranty for rooting and software at Sony's but couldn't find a word from Samsung. Am I wrong? I am not sure that changing the software could legally void a hardware warranty, at least on all countries. It can cause working problems on a phone just as it does on computers and even make them un-bootable without voiding any warranty. It doesn't make sense for me.

#1.2. Flashing the latest Android firmwares will overwrite your system files and kernel as well as locking the bootloader, if not already locked. If you are flashing this to an already rooted phone, it will um-root you and, currently, there is no way to re-root and flash a custom recovery or ROM without tripping the Knox flag and possibly, see #1.10, voiding your warranty as well as rendering it unusable as a BYOD for organistaions that require an untouched Knox counter for security. It also means that if you have apps that rely on root, such as SuperSU, you will not be able to uninstall them. Therefore, if you are going to install a stock Samsung, Knox enabled firmware to a rooted phone, you should first fully un-root and uninstall any root associated apps prior to updating.

Is this what will happen by following your rooting guide? I am really disappointed because as I am new to Android and having difficulties to understand everything, I have spent more than one week reading, trying to learn, and I find your guide the very best I read on every point, even if there is so much to read about on so many places.
At the end I would go ahead and forget about the warranty, but the remaining of this quoted text is a bit too much. What shall I do? I have the latest MJ7.

 

[ironass]

I am sorry Straydog but as this is a technical and legal question, I cannot give simple, short, answers. Hopefully, someone can translate this for you properly.

I am not of English mother tongue. Neither are Koreans,

However, Samsung spend millions on teams of lawyers, worldwide, who specialise in contractual law who do speak English, and every other language I would guess, as well as being well versed in local laws and regulations.

it seems clear that KNOX WARRANTY VOID cannot be the same as the shorter WARRANTY VOID.

See links in #1.10, as there appears to be conflicting reports on this.

I did read about voiding the warranty for rooting and software at Sony's but couldn't find a word from Samsung. Am I wrong? I am not sure that changing the software could legally void a hardware warranty, at least on all countries. It can cause working problems on a phone just as it does on computers and even make them un-bootable without voiding any warranty. It doesn't make sense for me.

Samsung maintain, here, that the only way to trip the Knox flag is by rooting. Rooting allows you, "superuser", access and the ability to change every aspect of Samsung's firmware and its interaction with the phone's hardware, such as, to flash kernels and ROM's that were not designed by Samsung to operate on your phone. Therefore, quite reasonably, I feel, Samsung do not take responsibility for something that breaks or damages your phone that was not intended for it.

For instance, you may flash a custom kernel that you overclock to, say 2.3GHz, and this could overheat your phone and destroy your battery or cause the screen to crack or corrupt or even melt the motherboard or other components or place undue stress on parts. You could also introduce modifications that cause your speakers to blow or your LED flash to break or you may brick it... and the list goes on. Samsung are not willing to be held responsible for this. It would be like making modifications to your new car's engine which may subsequently catches fire. The manufacture would argue that it was the modifications that caused the problem and void your warranty unless you could prove beyond a doubt that they did not. Unlike the old warranty counter that could be reset and a stock firmware could be flashed to claim warranty, the Knox flag is irreversible.

Is this what will happen by following your rooting guide?

The short answer is... yes. As per the warning at the beginning of the guide...

(***Caveat: On firmware releases for the GT-i9505, that are post MGG, locked bootloader and Knox security enabled, the following instructions will, currently, result in the Knox security flag being increased. See, Knox Security & locked bootloader on new firmwares)

I am really disappointed because as I am new to Android and having difficulties to understand everything, I have spent more than one week reading, trying to learn, and I find your guide the very best I read on every point, even if there is so much to read about on so many places.
At the end I would go ahead and forget about the warranty, but the remaining of this quoted text is a bit too much. What shall I do? I have the latest MJ7.

See, #1.3. If you are on Knox firmware then you have to decide between rooting your phone and, "possibly", voiding your warranty, or staying as stock. As for my rooting guide, there seems to be a problem, it would seem, with the flashing of the PhilZ recovery and I am trying to sort this out.

 

[Straydog]

I have to agree on nearly all of your points. If not all, maybe only out of ignorance.

Sure, Samsung have the right not to pay by what is not covered by their warranty, and obviously not if the cause of a failure is the human owner, like overclocking and a few more specifics similar to those which are rejected on any computer warranty. I can

 

[ironass]

Here are some brief answers to your post...

The Knox store was included in pre MGG firmware as I suspect that Samsung were intending to release it earlier than happened.

The locked bootloader and the Knox counter are prerequisites of installing Knox and are not Knox Security itself. See this post, here.

The Knox warranty void is to indicate that the phone has been rooted and that superuser access has been gained and that Knox security is voided on that device permanently as it can no longer be classified as secure. The Knox flag only has 2 states... 0x0 = unrooted and Knox security is not compromised... 0x1 = rooted or has been rooted and Knox security cannot be guaranteed and is now void. This information can be used by both Samsung and IT departments to show any breaches.

Computers do have a similar sort of security for organisations that require it... just not on the ordinary, everyday, general public's machines.

You will have to double check with Hawker about that post.

 

[Seinen]

#1.8. Samsung releases are categorised as follows:-

M = year = 2013 (13th letter of alphabet)

E = Month of year (May in this case, 5th letter of the alphabet)

A = Release of that month (10th for, "A", as they start 1-9 first, before letters)

Therefore, MEA is pre MGG, (2013, July, 16th release), and is before Knox. Only stock Samsung firmwares MGG onwards, (with the exception of MH1), have Knox.

Could somebody explain to me how do I check what release I have in my mobile?

Sorry if it has already been posted, but I am in a hurry right now so I couldn't read everything perfectly.

 

[ironass]

Could somebody explain to me how do I check what release I have in my mobile?

Sorry if it has already been posted, but I am in a hurry right now so I couldn't read everything perfectly.

http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s4/760098-18-galaxy-s4-models-know-yours.html

 

[Seinen]

http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s4/760098-18-galaxy-s4-models-know-yours.html

Thanks a lot!

Turns up I have the MEA release, phew!
Now to rooting...

 

[ironass]

Starting the 16th October and the bounty on cracking Knox and resetting the flag, now stands at US$2,142...

[Bounty] Reset KNOX counter to 0x0 (UPDATE- $2142)

 

[Riche101]

Starting the 16th October and the bounty on cracking Knox and resetting the flag, now stands at US$2,142...

[Bounty] Reset KNOX counter to 0x0 (UPDATE- $2142)

Wow here's hoping that you and hawker aka Rustu n Chips become future Knox crackers, it's a lot of beer money :-D

 

[mmseng]

KNOX KNOX, anyone home?

 

[ironass]

KNOX KNOX, anyone home?

In your case... probably not!

 

[sfhawkeye]

Hello all. I don't post that often since I just picked up a boost mobile S3 (SPH-L710) last week. It came with 4.1.2 and I knew there were other Roms out there and I knew there was root available. However, stupid me decided that I should install the OTA 4.3 update and mess with it before going the route of rooting and/or loading recoveries and roms. So needless to say, I'm stuck on 4.3 with Knox.

I've sort of come to grips with the fact that I won't be able to go back to 4.1.2 without tripping the Knox flag as stated in #1.3. Or so I assume. I went in to download mode and mine says "Warranty Bit - 0" is this the same thing?

Lastly, I know most of you guys are probably on GS4's I'm just wondering if the things that are referenced in #1.6 apply to the S3 as well?

I'm pretty much to the point where if I can get root on 4.3 WITHOUT tripping the Knox flag I'll be happy.

Thanks!

 

[sntaylor]

Hi sfhawkeye, I believe, but not 100% sure that the Knox on the s3 does not have the same efuse that the s4 has so tripping it is not the same.however you would really have to double check with the s3 guys though. Sorry

 

[sfhawkeye]

Ok, thats what I was thinking. I got all worried before realizing you guys were mostly talking about S4's and the international versions too. However, I'm still worried and mad that I didn't read first. Thanks for the input!

If you have any more info I'm keeping subscribed to this. The more you know...

 

[BudHalbertjr]

Ok so look, I have the sph-l170 through Boost mobile. I was attempting to root, have so far failed. My counter says 35 counts, current system binary and status both say custom. Qualcom secure boot says enabled. Warranty bit:1 bootloader ap swrev:1 Does this mean, since my phone updated after my attempts to 4.3 that im screwed? or.... is there any home in my rooting my Galaxy s3?

 

[ironass]

Knox Security enabled firmware has now been out on the Galaxy S4 for some 3 months now and remains un-crackable in terms of re-setting the Knox warranty void flag mentioned in post #1. The bounty on this now stands at US$2,282, here.

As mentioned in #1.0, Knox enabled firmware is now being rolled out to other Samsung phones, notably the Galaxy S3, and their owners are now waking up to this. However, I am given to understand that it is implemented slightly differently to the Galaxy S4.

The advice remains the same... if you are rooted, or are thinking of rooting your phone...

DO NOT UPGRADE TO ANDROID 4.3. It is a one way trip as you cannot successfully return to Android 4.2.2 without screwing your phone up. See #1.1.

Whilst it is possible to gain root access without tripping the Knox flag it is a minefield and in any case, flashing a custom recovery or ROM will trigger the Knox flag. See your phone version's, All Things Root forum, for details of these methods.

It is still unclear from reports, here, if tripping the Knox flag, apart from rendering the phone useless as a secure BYOD, actually affects your warranty rights, with reports of repairs carried out, hardware being covered but not software, etc; etc: Please read the linked xda thread for more details.

Knox enabled firmware means just that... it has the prerequisites for Knox Security, a locked bootloader and Knox flag. The actual Knox app is downloaded from the Play Store via an icon on the phone, if required.

If you are on pre Knox firmware, there are a number of custom ROMs that offer Android 4.3 and even 4.4, (KitKat), that are Knox free and use your unlocked, 4.2.2, bootloader. See your phone version's, All Things Root forum, for details of these.

See post #1 for the latest, up-to-date, details on Knox firmware.

 

[CafeKampuchia]

The article from Samsung below (1) states that they are ok with rooting and installing custom ROMs, (2) does not state that they will honor the warranty if you do, (3) confirms the use of an e-fuse.

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

 

[ironass]

The article from Samsung below (1) states that they are ok with rooting and installing custom ROMs, (2) does not state that they will honor the warranty if you do, (3) confirms the use of an e-fuse.

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

Nice one CafeKampuchia! :thumbup:

The way I read it is that the status quo has returned and the old, "Don't ask... don't tell", policy of a stock ROM, if possible, for warranty repairs is back in force and that Knox will not be used to deny warranty. This has been borne out from the numerous posts on xda, See #1.10 in post #1.

I feel a re-write of a number of my guides and posts is needed.

 

[ironass]

Post #1 has been extensively re-written in the light of the latest statement, at last, from Samsung, regarding Knox Security and warranty repairs and places the emphasis on not rooting devices where the users place of work requires Knox Security to be enabled and the Knox flag to be untouched.

 

[dynomot]

CafeKampuchia , your find is the best news I have had regarding rooting and Knox since my wife "helpfully" updated my SGS4 for me and gave me the locked bootloader. The status quo is back as ironass has said.

Now the dust has settled, my outrage subsided and me never ever wanting to use my own device securely for work (they can take a running jump if they ever ask) I think Samsung are to be applauded for their sensible and reasonable statement. Honestly this news had made my week.

 

[ironass]

Just as we thought we could all breathe a sigh of relief that Knox Security and the locked bootloader weren't as bad as we thought they were, chainfire, one of the most respected developers around, has announced that it is the next release of Google Android that we ought to be concerned about as rooters.

This time it is not down to Samsung but rather the the coding being used by Google Android for its Android 4.4.3 or 4.5 builds that will affect all makes, models and releases. Whether this coding is retained for the release, is debatable but if it is, it has the potential to break a lot of the existing apps that we rooters use as they will be denied access in their current form and, if possible, will need to be rewritten.

More details, here...

Android 4.5 Update Could Break Root Apps

Oh, well, being rooters we all love a challenge and it will give the ROM and app dev's something to think about.

 

[anoniemouse]

Just found this over at XDA http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2655544
& was wondering if it would work to de Knox the I9505 S4 & if it will also work on 4.3 as well as 4.4.
Be handy if it does.

 

[ironass]

Well anoniemouse, having gone through the whole thread I can tell you what it does and does not do.

It will root your phone and remove the Knox pop up warnings.

It will not unlock the bootloader or reset or remove the Knox warranty flag that has now been tripped by flashing the PhilZ custom recovery.

Basically, post #23 of that thread, says it all. You may as well just follow the instructions in the Rooting Galaxy S4 - Dummies Guide and just select, "Disable Knox", in SuperSU to get rid of the Knox warnings.

In a nutshell, that thread is, "Much ado about nothing".

 

[anoniemouse]

Pity about that, thought someone had found the solution to all our problems. I will have to keep looking, hopefully someone will crack it soon.

 

[ironass]

Pity about that, thought someone had found the solution to all our problems. I will have to keep looking, hopefully someone will crack it soon.

I doubt old boy. Its been over 4 months now and no-one has managed to claim the US$3.000+ bounty on it yet! See, here.