iPhone 6 vs Galaxy S5 (and Android)

[AnonGuy]

If I recall correctly, Mike's in China, and their only iPhone 6/6+ models are black market, which makes their price much higher. Still, retail vs. black market is not a fair price comparison. YOur price comparison illustrates that when legally available, the iPhone is no more expensive than comparable Android handsets.

And he loves to use China as a way to push ideas that same quite atypical elsewhere. The Galaxy Note 3 was not cheaper than a Base iPhone 5S. And the 4 won't be any different. Same goes for most other flagship. They're comparable in price.

The hardware differences are overblown given how those iPhone devices perform and the types of pictures and video they pump out, so I hope specs isn't how he's deriving value.

The biggest differentiator is the ecosystems and services backing the devices, and some people think higher privacy with less tracking and more polished UX is worth paying a premium for. Can you blame them.

It really doesn't matter how much they cost in chiba. it costs more to import models to the US that aren't launched here, and we're well aware there are Android OEMs undercutting.

But OnePlus doesn't produce iOS devices with apples ecosystem and services backing them, so it's a pretty worthless comparison at the end of the day.

Compare that to a Galaxy S. Not an iPhone. When a person decides apple is worth it, those cheap androids cease to be a consideration - and it doesn't matter where they live. That's how it works.

 

[Brian706]

And he loves to use China as a way to push ideas that same quite atypical elsewhere.

Speaking of pushing ideas in atypical locations...

Anyway, he didn't use China to push anything on anyone. He simply stated that for him, in his location, the iPhone is too expensive for what he gets. And I can't disagree with him. I would feel the same way if an iPhone would run me that much. In fact, I think $5-600 is too much because the iPhone isn't valuable to me in terms of what I want in a smartphone.

It really doesn't matter how much they cost in chiba.

Isn't this what you just accused Mike of doing? It doesn't matter to you how much they cost in China but I'm sure it matters to anyone living in China.

 

[mikedt]

China is not the only place where can get charged extravagant prices for Apple products, and other luxury items. I remember @stinkystinky in South Africa making a comparison between the iPhones and $1000 Gucci shoes in a post a while back. No doubt he can't justify buying or can't afford luxury items like $1000+ smartphones or shoes, and neither can I really.

Thing with the Apple services and integration, like buying songs and movies from iTunes and Siri etc., are not available in many countries. To be frank, you probably are much better with a OnePlus or an Oppo, which can integrate with many locally available services, like music and movie downloads.

 

[bjacks12]

The biggest differentiator is the ecosystems and services backing the devices, and some people think higher privacy with less tracking and more polished UX is worth paying a premium for. Can you blame them.

I suppose you probably won't even consider the fact that many of us consider the Android ecosystem to have more value than Apple's?

 

[Slug]

If I recall correctly, Mike's in China, and their only iPhone 6/6+ models are black market, which makes their price much higher.

He is, and I understand that. I was using the UK market as (a) it's what I'm familiar with and (b) it's a level playing field, so to speak.

[...] some people think higher privacy with less tracking and more polished UX is worth paying a premium for. Can you blame them.

Higher privacy? Apple still have a sizeable finger in your personal info pie, so I guess it's down to who you trust more. A question that's perhaps more tricky to answer after the so-called "fappening".

we're well aware there are Android OEMs undercutting.

The smartphone market isn't a cartel; manufacturers price their products to sell. Undercutting your competitors is part and parcel of a capitalist economy.

OnePlus doesn't produce iOS devices with apples ecosystem and services backing them, so it's a pretty worthless comparison at the end of the day.

This contradicts what you stated in a previous post, though:

How much it's worth depends on how much value you put in what Apple delivers. Same for Android, Windows Phone, and BlackBerry.

By this definition, if Mike places more value in what the OnePlus can offer than an iPhone then surely it's not "worthless"?

Compare that to a Galaxy S. Not an iPhone. When a person decides apple is worth it, those cheap androids cease to be a consideration - and it doesn't matter where they live. That's how it works.

That applies to any device i.e. once the buyer decides something is worth it all others cease to be a consideration.

 

[AnonGuy]

I suppose you probably won't even consider the fact that many of us consider the Android ecosystem to have more value than Apple's?

I'm not sure how this is related to the statement I wrote given the context in which my reply was given...

 

[AnonGuy]

My point was not to make anyone feel inferior, it was to point out behavior aimed to do the same to people who don't share others values, preferences, or allegiances.

No matter how much anyone doesn't like Apple, saying their products are worse, bad, overpriced, etc. does not simply make it so.

It just means that's your opinion.

An opinion than 10M+ people disagreed with to the point that they went stand in lines for hours to buy one.

 

[Medion]

My point was not to make anyone feel inferior, it was to point out behavior aimed to do the same to people who don't share others values, preferences, or allegiances.

No matter how much anyone doesn't like Apple, saying their products are worse, bad, overpriced, etc. does not simply make it so.

It just means that's your opinion.

An opinion than 10M+ people disagreed with to the point that they went stand in lines for hours to buy one.

Your post was in reply to me (as least, I'm the one that you quoted), and yet my post did not illustrate the behavior that you profess to be railing against.

Seems like it's not just us that's confused by your post, but that you might be confused as well. I've never considered the iPhone (or other Apple) products to be inferior to Android equivalents. I'm a strong proponent in choice. It's why I like having around different operating systems and different skins within the Android ecosystem.

So I don't know why you quoted me when you went on your soapbox.

 

[alpha2k]

I played with a new iPhone the other day, I'm not to impressed. I like the new hardware design, and the bigger screen but it's still the same drab interface. You'd think after all this time they would try something new, but yet again the same look as the iPhone 4's have bleh.

I like the ability to customize, but iPhone leaves that option out. I was arguing with a person I work with trying to explain how what iPhone is now implementing android has already had for years now, he of course got defensive saying how iPhone was the best, period lol.
Here's another thought, an android phone can look like an iPhone (for the most part) but can an iPhone look like android?

One thing I know of iPhone cannot do is widgets, and I am a huge widget user.
In short I love the new look of the hardware, but the os needs a change before I would even consider it.

 

[lunatic59]

My point was not to make anyone feel inferior, it was to point out behavior aimed to do the same to people who don't share others values, preferences, or allegiances.

And yet you accuse those whose opinions differ from yours of doing that which you infer others doing to you. Expressing an opinion about personal preference in *anything* cannot be taken on the face of it as condemnation or proselytizing. Let's try to chill out with the hyperbole and sophism for a while.

No matter how much anyone doesn't like Apple, saying their products are worse, bad, overpriced, etc. does not simply make it so.

It just means that's your opinion.

"Worse" and "overpriced" are comparative terms. Product A can be worse than product B in some respects and better in others. It can also be entirely worse or better than product C regardless of one's opinions about the company that manufactures them. Stating a logical fallacy as fact simply doesn't make it so.

An opinion than 10M+ people disagreed with to the point that they went stand in lines for hours to buy one.

What a lovely example of Dicto Simpliciter or "Jumping to Conclusions".

"Apple has today announced that it sold 10 million iPhone 6 and 6 Plus units in the first three days of sales. This includes the 4 million units sold in the first 24 hours of preorder sales."

So, of those 10M units sold in the first 3 days, 40% were pre-orders. No one stood in line for those. Of those remaining 6 million units, those waiting in line did not have a checkbox at point of sale to quantify their agreement or disagreement ... or even knowledge of what I assume to be a favorable opinion of Android.

We also have some incorrect set theory going on here. That some stood in line for hours does not mean that all or even most did. I'm not saying they didn't only that given the(lack of) evidence presented, we simply can't make that statement.

And let's not forget Argumentum ad Populum or the bandwagon fallacy. A large number of people doing the same thing somehow validates an opinion, or in this case an opposing opinion. We are supposed to infer that since 10M+ units were sold that they were making a statement against a differing opinion of value from a competing product. Over the past six months, Android/iOS market share has changed very little in the U.S. while Android continues to grow globally. This tells me that iPhone users are sticking with the platform they chose as are Android users without much comparison shopping at all.

What we can say is that out of the set of all smartphone users, some use Android and some use iOS. Some prefer iOS, some prefer Android. Some don't care and some don't know the difference. I can also say which subset(s) I happen to fall into, but that's about it.

If I were to categorize myself I would have to say i am an Android user who finds no substantial value in Apple products other than my iPod (3rd gen).

 

[Gmash]

McDonald's sells a lot of burgers. Doesn't make them good. Same with Britney Spears and her music. (or insert your own crappy pop star)

 

[mikedt]

Many luxury products are overpriced especially in emerging markets, Apple tech products, Gucci shoes, Louis Vuitton bags, Rolex watches, Burberry raincoats, Armani suits, etc. that's my opinion. :thumbup: ...these are the kinds of things that are most counterfeited as well.

 

[mikedt]

If I were to categorize myself I would have to say i am an Android user who finds no substantial value in Apple products other than my iPod (3rd gen).

I'm very much the same, I have a 6 year old white Macbook and a 5th gen iPod(which is running Rockbox). The Macbook was given to me, I can't justify spending $1500-2000 bucks on a new one though. If I needed a new laptop, I'd get another Lenovo most likely.

 

[nickdalzell]

The MacBook Pro is the last Apple product I have left, and that only because the hideous My Little Pony look of iOS 7 hasn't reduced OS X to a Fisher price toy for 4 year old girls...yet. unless it updates itself like my iPad and iPhone 4 did, I'm happy to stick with Mountain Lion until the thing dies of old age.

 

[AnonGuy]

"Worse" and "overpriced" are comparative terms. Product A can be worse than product B in some respects and better in others. It can also be entirely worse or better than product C regardless of one's opinions about the company that manufactures them. Stating a logical fallacy as fact simply doesn't make it so.

Worse and Overpriced are subjective terms, because what value someone puts in anything - which determines whether or not the price is appropriate, for them - is valid only to the person making that observation. This is why different people buy different things. Playing semantics by choosing a vague terminology in the middle is nice but skirting the issue that was being discussed as an attempt to win it, which is cute and honorable but not really what I'm interested in or trying to do...

The only way we can "compare" what is overpriced and the value of these thing is by observing how many people buy a particular phone (iPhone wins), how many people use the value-added features present on those phones (iPhone wins, even Samsung concluded that most people don't use their bloatware and TouchWiz is a bastion of negativity even on these forums), and how much money people are generally willing to spend on those products and upgrade them on a yearly basis (again, the iPhone wins both in customer retention and in monetizing their customers).

To many people, the better software, attention to detail, better and more consistent camera performance, better support, better update lifecycle and turn-around, more completely media ecosystem, and better integration across a broad range of form-factors make the iPhone more than worth its price. If you own different devices or prefer a different platform, you may not personally think so, but that doesn't make it so (see what I did there?).

Comparisons are generally based on subjectivity, unless you're just looking at the price as numbers and saying "since the iPhone costs more, it is overpriced." (Then someone will ask you to qualify it and you'll do it with a bunch of subjective criteria - back to square one, then?)

So the opinion that the iPhone is overpriced, while valid in that other person's personal vacuum of observing tech (and the devices they own, and their ability to spend more to get more value out of the device by using various other inter-ecosystem devices, etc.), simply doesn't fly in the grand scheme of things, and neither does your pretty weak attempt to qualify it.

If I called the Galaxy S5 overpriced and worth less than an iPhone, you'd use equivalent reasoning to attempt to debunk it simply because you prefer it to an iPhone - which is okay... In your own personal vacuum of observing tech (which many on this forum share, hence the name).

Being unable or unwilling to buy a more expensive piece of equipment doesn't make it overpriced. It just means you're unable or unwilling to buy a more expensive piece of equipment.

Also, comparing a Mac to a Lenovo PC 1:1 is na

 

[bjacks12]

Give up this self-righteous preaching of 'my opinion is objective, yours are all subjective' bs.

 

[The_Chief]

​

This thread seems to be running its course and starting to turn into a flame war. In a hurry. This needs to stop. IN A HURRY.

At Android Forums, we're all free to discuss products and procedures: no attacks on people. You can disagree with someone without being insulting: and if the tone of this thread doesn't improve, I'll lock it down and close it.

So let's all take a deep breath, agree to disagree on a few details, even some big ones... and talk about the advantages and disadvantages of the products and procedures at hand. Thank you for your cooperation!

 

[mikedt]

Yup, we all have our own opinions about Apple.

/thread ... for me. :thumbup:

 

[dan330]

I am against apple for their business practice.. bad ethics.
(I admit they have a good product with iphone(stolen from here and there parts)

I cant wait till Karma drops a big pile of iCrap on them.

 

[MLSS]

I am against apple for their business practice.. bad ethics.
(I admit they have a good product with iphone(stolen from here and there parts)

I cant wait till Karma drops a big pile of iCrap on them.

But your okay with Android? You have to assume that some of these phone manufacturers use questionable business practices. Especially with the Chinese made devices..........

 

[dan330]

But your okay with Android? You have to assume that some of these phone manufacturers use questionable business practices. Especially with the Chinese made devices..........

Google makes android...

what the phone manufactures do.. I will have an opinion on them individually.


Apple has made a lot of un-ethical moves from the start.. with the start of PC. they steal, copy, and lawsuit.

 

[MLSS]

Google makes android...

what the phone manufactures do.. I will have an opinion on them individually.


Apple has made a lot of un-ethical moves from the start.. with the start of PC. they steal, copy, and lawsuit.

And Google hasn't???

 

[Hadron]

Apple has made a lot of un-ethical moves from the start.. with the start of PC. they steal, copy, and lawsuit.

Well if you bring "the start of the PC" into it then MS's track record isn't exactly unblemished. Google's attitude to regulators is every bit as bad as Microsoft's was when they were being challenged for abusing a monopoly position. And both Google and Apple are major tax dodgers, have engaged in anti-competitive employment deals. The bottom line is that many successful tech companies have black marks.

The truth is that all of these people define "innovation" and "copying" using the same principle of "we innovate, they copy". As for competition by lawsuit (which I abhor), maybe time to reform a system which makes these practices financially worthwhile for them? Only you'll run into a lot of well funded vested interests doing that.

Right, what was the original topic?

 

[lunatic59]

The bottom line is that many successful companies have black marks.

ftfy

I'd like to sum up my opinion of corporate practices with a quote from Rodney Dangerfield ...

"Always look out for number one, but don't step in number two!"

Right, what was the original topic?

Exactly. Since we seem to have lost sight of the iPhone6 vs. SGS5 discussion, I'm going to close this. If anyone would like to resume the phone comparisons, pm me, otherwise, the rest of this requires a new topic.