Root Moto going to unlock bootloader

[eraursls1984]

that example is not even in the same UNIVERSE as Moto locking the bootloader...

Exactly, its more like "look at this 500 HP supercharged car, you can only get the 250 HP one though" its not broken, its just not hitting its full potential.

 

[Outlaw71]

I guess modding is a personality trait. Either you're a guy/girl who likes to mod things out, or your not. My hobby, and lifes passion is motorcycles. I've bought Kawasaki's since I was 19 years old. Now take the ZX-10R that's out in my garage right now, when I bought it I replaced the headers and exhaust with an Akropovic EVO 1 full system, a Power Commander III, BMC air filter and boosted the midrange with velocity stacks.

Now if I'd done all of this and then suddenly the electronic ignition locked up on me because I'd changed my bike from 'stock' and I took it in and the guys down at the Kawasaki dealership said, "well we're sorry, but Kawasaki doesn't trust you to do these sort of things to your bike. They're afraid you're going to fry the engine and cause significant repair costs that they don't want to have to cover. Then I'd hand them the key and say, "**** Kawasaki then", and I'd go buy a Yamaha.

They don't trust me to do with my device as I see fit, fine. I will go elsewhere. BV is absolutely right, they have every right to sell their devices any way they want to sell them. It's up to the customer to either buy it, or buy something else. I'm going to excersize my right to buy something else. It's just a shame because I like Moto designs. I'm not mad at anyone who still buys them, I have no abitions of turning the world against Motorola. I just personally don't like being treated like an infant.

Does anyone have any adea how to get the return numbers and compare them? I would be very interested in seeing how much higher the return rate is on say the EVO 4G or the Samsung Galaxy with their unlocked bootloaders is as compared to the Droid 2 and Droid X.

 

[VoidedSaint]

Exactly, its more like "look at this 500 HP supercharged car, you can only get the 250 HP one though" its not broken, its just not hitting its full potential.

or its like buying a brand new scion tc only to have the door break 2 years later by the window rolling down and popping off track every time because its a manufacturers defect, and they admitt to it being a problem with the doors when they pushed to product out, and they tell you its nothing they can do because you didnt have a close relationship with your dealer.

Toyota sucks!

 

[sic0048]

No analogy is perfect, but none of the examples are even close IMHO. We can run different ROMs on the DroidX already (but those cannot modify the kernel). To me that is like adding on some high performance parts on a car. You are taking something stock and modifying it slightly.

Changing the kernel of a phone (which is what people want to do with an unlocked bootloader) isn't like adding on a couple of parts to a car. It is like changing out the entire motor. Of course car manufactures cannot stop you from changing out the motor, but they also won't give you warranty service on any of the work done. It is also clear as day that the motor has been changed out, so there is no risk to the manufacturer. With a phone, it is nearly impossible to tell if a phone is bricked because of a failed ROM installation/kernel modification or because of some factory defect. Therefore I think the manufactures have the right to keep people from screwing around with the kernel.

Not only that, but the locked bootloader does help protect some of Motorola's proprietary information. Android may be open source, but that doesn't mean that every piece of code that a phone manufacture has to use to make the hardware work with Android is open source. Companies not only have the right, they actually have a legal responsibility to protect their proprietary information.

Again, these conversations are pretty pointless. First, even though we feel like the modding community is huge, it is actually tiny in comparision to the overall phone market. So the phone manufactures have little to no incentive to cater to us.

Second, we can and should vote with our wallets. No one should have bought the DroidX expecting to modify the kernel. Sure, there was some hope that on day it might be broken. But everyone that bought one a couple of days after it was released knew that the bootloader was locked down tight. Not only that, but there was enough speculation that the bootloader was locked prior to release that no one that required an unlocked bootloader should have bought it right away.

No one is forcing people to buy Motorola. Stop the complaining and take responsibility for your own actions and purchases.

 

[Outlaw71]

No one is forcing people to buy Motorola. Stop the complaining and take responsibility for your own actions and purchases.

Stop complaining? Hell forums such as this one wouldn't even exist if not for folks like us jumping online to complain. Heck you're complaining by telling all of us NOT to complain!

LOL

Hey I'll admit it, I didn't know the first thing about a bootloader, what the hell a kernel was, what ROMs were, how to theme, what in the world 'root' meant... none of it, before I bought this phone. This is my first foray into the world of Android, and customizable devices.

Up until about two months ago I had been running the stock ROM, but I had rooted fairly early, removed some of the bloat, sped things up via Droid 2/X Over Clocker. I had SetCPU running, Autokiller set to 'Aggressive', cleared my cache out regularly... all that jazz. I thought my device worked pretty well at the time. Perhaps I should have left well enough alone?

Because in early December my curiousity finally got the best of me, and I flashed Ultimate Droid... my smartphone world changed forever on that day. Even before applying those tweaks my DX changed so completely, it was ultra responsive, impossibly quick, blazingly fast. Intuitive? Heck the thing seemed to know what I wanted it to do even before I did. Suddenly the stock ROM seemed like a complete an utter POS!

Unfortunately, UD was not (and still is not) ready for everyday use. The GPS doesn't work, the camera doesn't work, and I couldn't even watch video's off of the internet. So I flashed some of the other, popular ROMs... Apex, Rubix Focused, GummyJAR, Tranquility, and Liberty. Some of these were better on my device than others. But none could match the sheer transformation value that UD did.

That's pretty much when I decided that I REALLY wanted a device that wasn't held back like this one is. That gave me a taste of what a truly custom ROM must be like, only they must be even better since UD still had to use the same kernel. I want to be able to flash Cyanogenmod, Obsidian, Unleashed, any/all of the AOSP ROMs that are out there. It's ultimate control that I'm after.

I think the DX is just fine for the masses, I don't knock it to anyone else just because I'm at odds with it. Everyone has the freedom to purchase/own whatever they want. I bought this phone, I take responsibility for that. I'm not blaming Moto for tricking me into buying it. I didn't know the difference when I bought it. And I'm still happy I bought it.

But now that I know what else is out there, I'm not looking to buy another device with a locked bootloader. I'm hoping that when it's time to upgrade to another phone Nexus has a well made (think Gorilla Glass), 4.3 inch screen device out with as much built in memory as the DX (that's the thing I think this phone got REALLY right, all that internal storage). That's the device I'm dreaming of. It seems to be built for guys like me in mind. I just want a bigger screen now that I'm hooked on the size of the DX.

Now, I could just be quiet about all of my hopes and dreams and not come in here and mention any of it... but what fun would that be???

 

[eraursls1984]

Stop complaining? Hell forums such as this one wouldn't even exist if not for folks like us jumping online to complain. Heck you're complaining by telling all of us NOT to complain!

LOL

Hey I'll admit it, I didn't know the first thing about a bootloader, what the hell a kernel was, what ROMs were, how to theme, what in the world 'root' meant... none of it, before I bought this phone. This is my first foray into the world of Android, and customizable devices.

Up until about two months ago I had been running the stock ROM, but I had rooted fairly early, removed some of the bloat, sped things up via Droid 2/X Over Clocker. I had SetCPU running, Autokiller set to 'Aggressive', cleared my cache out regularly... all that jazz. I thought my device worked pretty well at the time. Perhaps I should have left well enough alone?

Because in early December my curiousity finally got the best of me, and I flashed Ultimate Droid... my smartphone world changed forever on that day. Even before applying those tweaks my DX changed so completely, it was ultra responsive, impossibly quick, blazingly fast. Intuitive? Heck the thing seemed to know what I wanted it to do even before I did. Suddenly the stock ROM seemed like a complete an utter POS!

Unfortunately, UD was not (and still is not) ready for everyday use. The GPS doesn't work, the camera doesn't work, and I couldn't even watch video's off of the internet. So I flashed some of the other, popular ROMs... Apex, Rubix Focused, GummyJAR, Tranquility, and Liberty. Some of these were better on my device than others. But none could match the sheer transformation value that UD did.

That's pretty much when I decided that I REALLY wanted a device that wasn't held back like this one is. That gave me a taste of what a truly custom ROM must be like, only they must be even better since UD still had to use the same kernel. I want to be able to flash Cyanogenmod, Obsidian, Unleashed, any/all of the AOSP ROMs that are out there. It's ultimate control that I'm after.

I think the DX is just fine for the masses, I don't knock it to anyone else just because I'm at odds with it. Everyone has the freedom to purchase/own whatever they want. I bought this phone, I take responsibility for that. I'm not blaming Moto for tricking me into buying it. I didn't know the difference when I bought it. And I'm still happy I bought it.

But now that I know what else is out there, I'm not looking to buy another device with a locked bootloader. I'm hoping that when it's time to upgrade to another phone Nexus has a well made (think Gorilla Glass), 4.3 inch screen device out with as much built in memory as the DX (that's the thing I think this phone got REALLY right, all that internal storage). That's the device I'm dreaming of. It seems to be built for guys like me in mind. I just want a bigger screen now that I'm hooked on the size of the DX.

Now, I could just be quiet about all of my hopes and dreams and not come in here and mention any of it... but what fun would that be???

Are you a author or journalist? everyone of your post is like a full article or a chapter of a book lol

 

[Outlaw71]

Lol, it's soooo funny you asked me that because I get accused of being a writer in these forums all the time. It's rather frusterating really because I don't try to make all my posts so freakin long! I know most people get bored after 3 sentences, so my posts more than likely get overlooked most of the time since they're so long. And I never start out with the intent on writing out an entire chapter in a book, it's just that after I start to type I get carried away and soon enough... well, look at where this 'simple' response is already heading!!!

I should have been a writer, I love doing it. What's really funny is that I'm not a big talker at all. If we were sitting in a room together you'd have to pry things out of me just to get me to tell you something. Put a keyboard in front of me though and off I go. I know you're not going to believe this, but I actually go through a lot of my posts and 'edit them down' because they tend to get out of control.

Scary, isn't it! lol

 

[Raptor912]

Outlaw, you posts are awesome!

 

[bouchigo]

Lol, it's soooo funny you asked me that because I get accused of being a writer in these forums all the time. It's rather frusterating really because I don't try to make all my posts so freakin long! I know most people get bored after 3 sentences, so my posts more than likely get overlooked most of the time since they're so long. And I never start out with the intent on writing out an entire chapter in a book, it's just that after I start to type I get carried away and soon enough... well, look at where this 'simple' response is already heading!!!

I should have been a writer, I love doing it. What's really funny is that I'm not a big talker at all. If we were sitting in a room together you'd have to pry things out of me just to get me to tell you something. Put a keyboard in front of me though and off I go. I know you're not going to believe this, but I actually go through a lot of my posts and 'edit them down' because they tend to get out of control.

Scary, isn't it! lol

Hey, gotta keep those wpm up....this is an example of a short reply

 

[Outlaw71]

Outlaw, you posts are awesome!

Ya think so eh? Well it's good to know I'm not boring EVERYONE to tears anyways!

 

[Outlaw71]

Hey, gotta keep those wpm up....this is an example of a short reply

Good stuff, keep it coming... I'm taking notes.

 

[bouchigo]

Good stuff, keep it coming... I'm taking notes.

Hahahaha, nice, notes are always good; they're good refreshers...lol.

Anayway, maybe we should get back on topic before we get scolded by one of the mods

 

[Outlaw71]

...Not only that, but the locked bootloader does help protect some of Motorola's proprietary information. Android may be open source, but that doesn't mean that every piece of code that a phone manufacture has to use to make the hardware work with Android is open source. Companies not only have the right, they actually have a legal responsibility to protect their proprietary information...

Ok if nothing else I am a guy who gives credit where credit is due, and this is the best argument I've seen yet for a locked bootloader. So what you're saying is that by hacking the kernel devs can extract code that Motorola doesn't wish to share? If in fact this is the case then I guess all I can say is........... oh.

Ok so please excuse my ignorance as I'm sure what I'm about to say next is going to make some of the more knowledgeable in the room spit pop on their keyboards in laughter... but is this secret code located 'inside' the kernel?

What I'm getting at is couldn't they allow you to bypass the stock kernel and write a new one in its place if you wanted to make a custom ROM instead of causing the device to brick when trying to do so?

I'm quite sure I probably have most or all of that wrong. I don't know the first thing about kernels or the inner workings of a phone/computer. I'm just trying to figure out if there are any alternatives at all to what they've done. A happy medium. Honestly I don't expect Motorola or any of the other OEM's to allow us to do things that could/would cause a loss of profit. It's just that I don't fully understand the need for a locked bootloader.

I've read several posts by people comparing these devices to a laptop, and the fact that on a laptop all of these things are possible (creating a custom kernal, switching ROMs, over clocking, etc...), that's where they got the knowledge to do the same thing with these devices once they started making them like a miniature computer.

So the question running around in my head right now is, how do laptop manufacturers keep from going out of business if they don't lock down their bootloaders? Why aren't they losing all the money Motorola seems to think they're going to lose if they unlock their bootloader? And what money is Moto making that Google isn't making off of the Nexus series of phones that they don't feel the need to lock down?

I really just want to understand their position. I'm fully aware that ignorance is the most common reason behind misunderstandings. So I would like to know why some of the industry is locked while others are not. I guess that's what confuses me the most. If everyone was on the same page as Moto then I would probably accept it as something that just needs to be done and move on. But since there is a choice I'm compelled to voice my opinion on which choice I like better, and why.

If Motorola's stance is legit then no hard feelings. All I wish to find out is what exactly makes it legit.

 

[Outlaw71]

Hahahaha, nice, notes are always good; they're good refreshers...lol.

Anayway, maybe we should get back on topic before we get scolded by one of the mods

Was that ^ post 'on topic' enough ya think?

 

[Raptor912]

Awesome!

 

[Raptor912]

Outlaw- by the way, your app brain link in your signature takes me to my apps, not yours...

 

[Outlaw71]

Outlaw- by the way, your app brain link in your signature takes me to my apps, not yours...

Doh!!!

Well crap, how do I remedy that?

 

[Raptor912]

Doh!!!

Well crap, how do I remedy that?

when you go to app brain, click my apps. You should be able to copy that link to link to your apps. Make sure you are signed in. I am trying now to see if it works for me

 

[Raptor912]

Yeah, mine works. Make sure you copy the link from the "right hand side", not the link in your browser bar

 

[Outlaw71]

Ok I copied the link that said 'imbed in your webpage', is that the one?

 

[Raptor912]

No, the one that is above that. It says "copy and past this link"

 

[bouchigo]

Ok if nothing else I am a guy who gives credit where credit is due, and this is the best argument I've seen yet for a locked bootloader. So what you're saying is that by hacking the kernel devs can extract code that Motorola doesn't wish to share? If in fact this is the case then I guess all I can say is........... oh.

Ok so please excuse my ignorance as I'm sure what I'm about to say next is going to make some of the more knowledgeable in the room spit pop on their keyboards in laughter... but is this secret code located 'inside' the kernel?

What I'm getting at is couldn't they allow you to bypass the stock kernel and write a new one in its place if you wanted to make a custom ROM instead of causing the device to brick when trying to do so?

I'm quite sure I probably have most or all of that wrong. I don't know the first thing about kernels or the inner workings of a phone/computer. I'm just trying to figure out if there are any alternatives at all to what they've done. A happy medium. Honestly I don't expect Motorola or any of the other OEM's to allow us to do things that could/would cause a loss of profit. It's just that I don't fully understand the need for a locked bootloader.

I've read several posts by people comparing these devices to a laptop, and the fact that on a laptop all of these things are possible (creating a custom kernal, switching ROMs, over clocking, etc...), that's where they got the knowledge to do the same thing with these devices once they started making them like a miniature computer.

So the question running around in my head right now is, how do laptop manufacturers keep from going out of business if they don't lock down their bootloaders? Why aren't they losing all the money Motorola seems to think they're going to lose if they unlock their bootloader? And what money is Moto making that Google isn't making off of the Nexus series of phones that they don't feel the need to lock down?

I really just want to understand their position. I'm fully aware that ignorance is the most common reason behind misunderstandings. So I would like to know why some of the industry is locked while others are not. I guess that's what confuses me the most. If everyone was on the same page as Moto then I would probably accept it as something that just needs to be done and move on. But since there is a choice I'm compelled to voice my opinion on which choice I like better, and why.

If Motorola's stance is legit then no hard feelings. All I wish to find out is what exactly makes it legit.

Yes, nice, very good post I might add.

I can't say for certain, but I'm guessing part of the reason Moto locks the bootloader is due to VZW's request and partially Moto wanting to guard their "intellectual property" (blur in this case, I don't particularly care for blur by the way).

From what I've been reading, it seems all manufacturers implement some kind of lock/hack proof code in their software, it's just that other manufacturers "locks" are easier to "pick"; I tend to believe that they do this intentionally, while Moto chose a method that has proved to be extremely difficult to "pick" and may actually not even be possible without having the keys.

What the real reasons are for Moto doing this only Moto and VZW head execs most likely know, the rest of us are just left to speculate.

 

[rmrlc]

Outlaw71 yours work you have 203 apps but Raptor912 yours don't i get
Oops! This page does not exist anymore...

 

[Outlaw71]

Outlaw71 yours work you have 203 apps but Raptor912 yours don't i get
Oops! This page does not exist anymore...

Indeed he is right. I think you may have made the same mistake I did Raptor, copied the wrong link.... how did that happen anyhow? You were one of the one's who helped me get mine right! Lol

 

[Steven58]

Yeah, can we get back on topic?